Newberry B1 report
05-17-2004, 08:23 PM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern PA USA
Posts: 1,398
Newberry B1 report
Newberry B1 with S.A.T Hybrid Cam System
I am attempting a short report on the Newberry B1 bow. Although it certainly will not compare with Jeff B's long, boring bow reports, I will do my best to share my experiences with this bow for anyone who may be interested. My intent is to give you the facts, with minimal "Like Dude, this bow is awesome. It is the best bow I've EVER shot."
The Newberry B1 is made by Archery Pro L.L.C. It wears Skyline Apparition Excel camo, which certainly has a little different look than all of the bows that are using Mossy Oak or Realtree. The bow specs from the web site are 36.5" ATA, 7.25 brace height, 3 # mass weight. The bow I have is 36.625 ATA, 7.25 brace (pretty accurate, IMO), but closer to 4 #, which is actually good news to me. The draw weight of my bow was a nominal #60, and peak with the limb bolts bottomed is #63-64, depending on the draw length. The draw length is 28 - 30.5. Measurements taken on my crank board indicate that these draw lengths vary less than 1/8" from stated specs.
http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=157493
The B1 has a riser that measures just short of 23.5" between the outermost parts of limb pockets, which are separate, pivoting pieces. The riser is machined aluminum with very nice, if not fancy machining. There is a 6" sight window, recessed fully for its entire span (no separate arrow pass cutout). The riser is noticeably thicker than some other bows, at 11/16 side to side for most of its length. It certainly has a very sturdy feel to it.
http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=157501
The limb pivots are very close to 2" in front of the low point of the grip (reflexed). The bow (to me) seems well balanced with no tendency to roll forward or back. The limb pockets seem very well machined, with very close fit between the pockets and riser.
http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=157518
The limbs fit into the pockets with virtually no gap at all. These pockets are fitted with two features. One is a thin, black pad, which seems like some sort of dense, vibration-reducing material at the point where the limbs would be exerting maximum downward force toward the limb pockets and riser. Each pocket also has a rectangular gel-type insert in the pocket around the limb bolt. This gel insert also extends into a recess in the riser between the limb bolt hole and the limb pivot of the riser.Richard Batdorf, the owner of Archery Pro LLC told me that this technology was licensed form HCA. No doubt this is also for noise and vibration reduction. The pockets have no "end cap" on them. The butt ends of the limbs do not appear to be contained by the pocket itself, but by the limb bolt. The limb bolts are long enough that the bow can be taken down by loosening the limb bolts until the string/cables loosen up. This would seem to be a worthy feature for a hunting bow if any serious work needed to be done far away from a bow press.
http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=157515
The grip is different than the ones pictured on the website. It is a 3-sided wood grip with a thumb rest on the right side. The grip feels comfortable to me, although it is a little thick side to side.
http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=157519
The website shows the bows with a gold-anodized cable guard rod, but mine has a non-adjustable carbon rod that is well rounded on the back end. I was told that the centershot was 3/4" out from the sight window. The cable clearance measured 7/8" to the center of my arrow. Fletch clearance should not be an issue with this bow. The limbs are described as "14" carbon tough limbs. They are pre-stressed approximately 3.375" (from straight) at the axle location. The S.A.T. Hybrid cam system looks very much like the Hoyt Cam.5 system.
http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=157507
It has what appear to be Teflon bushings instead of the sealed ball bearings that Hoyt uses. I was told that the bushing material is called Ertylyte TX, a self-lubricating material that Archery Pro has tested. They are of the opinion that these bushings compare favorably to the bearings used by other manufacturers. Otherwise, the cam system looks almost identical to the Hoyt, except for the color.
http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=157510
When I first got the bow, I wanted to shoot it without any silencing aids just to get the feel and sound of the bow. I quickly tied in a nock point, and installed a Centerest flipper rest, and an inexpensive Cobra sight. As soon as I nocked an arrow, I knew there would be some string noise. There was, but it was not as bad as expected. A small pair of catwhiskers did a nice job of taming the string vibration. Later, I installed a set of Limb Savers Ultra for solid limbs. With these accessories installed, the bow is very quiet, with just a very faint, high-pitched hum at the shot. The day following the chronograph testing, I put a string leech in the power cable just above the serving. I was please to hear that the hum had been totally eliminated. Recoil is also very low, on par with bows like the McPherson 38 special and Bowtech Pro 38. There is just a bit more recoil than say a VFT bow, but it is really very slight and, IMO, does not affect the shooting in the slightest. I was shooting some of my "toughest to tune" Nitro Traditional arrows without fletching. I've only had a few bows that will shoot these well bare-shaft, and most of those bows needed a stabilizer to do it consistently. Within three small adjustments, these bare shafts were flying nice and straight, something that took lots of time and patience with most bows I have owned (when I could achieve it at all). In my experience with this bow, I would say the qualities that stand out the most are the stability and tunability. After switching to my favorite ACCs and a Whisker Biscuit QS rest, the bow remained quiet, and stable. I was able to consistently shoot bare shaft arrows into the same groups as fletched arrows, even without a stabilizer attached to the bow. The bow seemed to shoot very accurately, never putting an arrow out of the group unexpectedly. Any accuracy test is probably meaningless when you consider that just about any bow can shoot better than the shooter can, but this bow does inspire confidence. Thanks to PABowhuntr, I was able to chronograph the bow to get a feel for the performance capabilities. The arrows shot were ACC 3/60s with various fletching and point combinations. The weights ranged from 494 grains to 378 grains. To see about light arrow speed, I had one old Quick Strike 59 with a 75 grain point that was unfletched, and weighed in at 315 grains (5 grains under IBO for a #64 bow.) I had only a minimal tied-in nocking point and catwhiskers on the string.
Newberry B1, S.A.T. cams / 64#
Arrow weight Speed @30" Speed @ 30.5"
494 gr. 250 253
455 gr. 260 263
399 gr. 276 279
378 gr. 283 286
315 gr. 310 313
There were a few things about the performance that I thought were worth mentioning. First, the speeds were very consistent. With the 315 gr. arrow and the cams set for 30.5" for instance, the chronograph never varied from 313 fps. Second, the speed increase with lighter arrows, was greater with the Newberry than it was with the Hoyt and Bowtech bows that I was also testing. The Kinetic energy barely dropped at all from the heavy to the lightest arrows with this bow. There also seemed to be little change in noise or vibration when going from the heavier arrows to the lighter ones. I have no plans to shoot this bow with any more sub-IBO weight arrows, whether it is warranted to shoot below 5grains per # or not. I just found it interesting that the bow seemed to remain quiet and well-mannered even with the lightest arrows that I had. To top off the morning of chronograph testing, I shot some of my ACCs at 20 yards. The 399 gr. feather fletched arrows impacted about 4" above the bull in Frank's target. The follow-up 455 grain arrow hit in the X ring, but high and left. I pulled those arrows, and shot two more 455s (vane fletched and 125 gr. points) Two more X ring shots (left side), and one shot through fletch. OK, accidents will happen, I know, but for a pure hunting setup with a trimmed B1 Whisker Biscuit and no peep sight, I think I will take it!
I am attempting a short report on the Newberry B1 bow. Although it certainly will not compare with Jeff B's long, boring bow reports, I will do my best to share my experiences with this bow for anyone who may be interested. My intent is to give you the facts, with minimal "Like Dude, this bow is awesome. It is the best bow I've EVER shot."
The Newberry B1 is made by Archery Pro L.L.C. It wears Skyline Apparition Excel camo, which certainly has a little different look than all of the bows that are using Mossy Oak or Realtree. The bow specs from the web site are 36.5" ATA, 7.25 brace height, 3 # mass weight. The bow I have is 36.625 ATA, 7.25 brace (pretty accurate, IMO), but closer to 4 #, which is actually good news to me. The draw weight of my bow was a nominal #60, and peak with the limb bolts bottomed is #63-64, depending on the draw length. The draw length is 28 - 30.5. Measurements taken on my crank board indicate that these draw lengths vary less than 1/8" from stated specs.
http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=157493
The B1 has a riser that measures just short of 23.5" between the outermost parts of limb pockets, which are separate, pivoting pieces. The riser is machined aluminum with very nice, if not fancy machining. There is a 6" sight window, recessed fully for its entire span (no separate arrow pass cutout). The riser is noticeably thicker than some other bows, at 11/16 side to side for most of its length. It certainly has a very sturdy feel to it.
http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=157501
The limb pivots are very close to 2" in front of the low point of the grip (reflexed). The bow (to me) seems well balanced with no tendency to roll forward or back. The limb pockets seem very well machined, with very close fit between the pockets and riser.
http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=157518
The limbs fit into the pockets with virtually no gap at all. These pockets are fitted with two features. One is a thin, black pad, which seems like some sort of dense, vibration-reducing material at the point where the limbs would be exerting maximum downward force toward the limb pockets and riser. Each pocket also has a rectangular gel-type insert in the pocket around the limb bolt. This gel insert also extends into a recess in the riser between the limb bolt hole and the limb pivot of the riser.Richard Batdorf, the owner of Archery Pro LLC told me that this technology was licensed form HCA. No doubt this is also for noise and vibration reduction. The pockets have no "end cap" on them. The butt ends of the limbs do not appear to be contained by the pocket itself, but by the limb bolt. The limb bolts are long enough that the bow can be taken down by loosening the limb bolts until the string/cables loosen up. This would seem to be a worthy feature for a hunting bow if any serious work needed to be done far away from a bow press.
http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=157515
The grip is different than the ones pictured on the website. It is a 3-sided wood grip with a thumb rest on the right side. The grip feels comfortable to me, although it is a little thick side to side.
http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=157519
The website shows the bows with a gold-anodized cable guard rod, but mine has a non-adjustable carbon rod that is well rounded on the back end. I was told that the centershot was 3/4" out from the sight window. The cable clearance measured 7/8" to the center of my arrow. Fletch clearance should not be an issue with this bow. The limbs are described as "14" carbon tough limbs. They are pre-stressed approximately 3.375" (from straight) at the axle location. The S.A.T. Hybrid cam system looks very much like the Hoyt Cam.5 system.
http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=157507
It has what appear to be Teflon bushings instead of the sealed ball bearings that Hoyt uses. I was told that the bushing material is called Ertylyte TX, a self-lubricating material that Archery Pro has tested. They are of the opinion that these bushings compare favorably to the bearings used by other manufacturers. Otherwise, the cam system looks almost identical to the Hoyt, except for the color.
http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=157510
When I first got the bow, I wanted to shoot it without any silencing aids just to get the feel and sound of the bow. I quickly tied in a nock point, and installed a Centerest flipper rest, and an inexpensive Cobra sight. As soon as I nocked an arrow, I knew there would be some string noise. There was, but it was not as bad as expected. A small pair of catwhiskers did a nice job of taming the string vibration. Later, I installed a set of Limb Savers Ultra for solid limbs. With these accessories installed, the bow is very quiet, with just a very faint, high-pitched hum at the shot. The day following the chronograph testing, I put a string leech in the power cable just above the serving. I was please to hear that the hum had been totally eliminated. Recoil is also very low, on par with bows like the McPherson 38 special and Bowtech Pro 38. There is just a bit more recoil than say a VFT bow, but it is really very slight and, IMO, does not affect the shooting in the slightest. I was shooting some of my "toughest to tune" Nitro Traditional arrows without fletching. I've only had a few bows that will shoot these well bare-shaft, and most of those bows needed a stabilizer to do it consistently. Within three small adjustments, these bare shafts were flying nice and straight, something that took lots of time and patience with most bows I have owned (when I could achieve it at all). In my experience with this bow, I would say the qualities that stand out the most are the stability and tunability. After switching to my favorite ACCs and a Whisker Biscuit QS rest, the bow remained quiet, and stable. I was able to consistently shoot bare shaft arrows into the same groups as fletched arrows, even without a stabilizer attached to the bow. The bow seemed to shoot very accurately, never putting an arrow out of the group unexpectedly. Any accuracy test is probably meaningless when you consider that just about any bow can shoot better than the shooter can, but this bow does inspire confidence. Thanks to PABowhuntr, I was able to chronograph the bow to get a feel for the performance capabilities. The arrows shot were ACC 3/60s with various fletching and point combinations. The weights ranged from 494 grains to 378 grains. To see about light arrow speed, I had one old Quick Strike 59 with a 75 grain point that was unfletched, and weighed in at 315 grains (5 grains under IBO for a #64 bow.) I had only a minimal tied-in nocking point and catwhiskers on the string.
Newberry B1, S.A.T. cams / 64#
Arrow weight Speed @30" Speed @ 30.5"
494 gr. 250 253
455 gr. 260 263
399 gr. 276 279
378 gr. 283 286
315 gr. 310 313
There were a few things about the performance that I thought were worth mentioning. First, the speeds were very consistent. With the 315 gr. arrow and the cams set for 30.5" for instance, the chronograph never varied from 313 fps. Second, the speed increase with lighter arrows, was greater with the Newberry than it was with the Hoyt and Bowtech bows that I was also testing. The Kinetic energy barely dropped at all from the heavy to the lightest arrows with this bow. There also seemed to be little change in noise or vibration when going from the heavier arrows to the lighter ones. I have no plans to shoot this bow with any more sub-IBO weight arrows, whether it is warranted to shoot below 5grains per # or not. I just found it interesting that the bow seemed to remain quiet and well-mannered even with the lightest arrows that I had. To top off the morning of chronograph testing, I shot some of my ACCs at 20 yards. The 399 gr. feather fletched arrows impacted about 4" above the bull in Frank's target. The follow-up 455 grain arrow hit in the X ring, but high and left. I pulled those arrows, and shot two more 455s (vane fletched and 125 gr. points) Two more X ring shots (left side), and one shot through fletch. OK, accidents will happen, I know, but for a pure hunting setup with a trimmed B1 Whisker Biscuit and no peep sight, I think I will take it!
05-17-2004, 08:32 PM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 858
RE: Newberry B1 report
Nice review Joe. Sounds like you've got a fun new toy. I'm glad to see a real objective style review rather than some of the meaningless drivel I've seen spewed by the "3 grains per pound" crowd on the other site
05-18-2004, 06:07 AM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: Newberry B1 report
Good report Joe, and nice photos. I've never seen a limb pocket fit, that tight. Was there vibration material between the limb and the pocket, on the sides?
My new pet peeve is cam alignment. I've been very disappointed by some bows that are supposedly manufactured to very fine tolerances, yet have terrible cam alignment. Did you check that on this bow?
My new pet peeve is cam alignment. I've been very disappointed by some bows that are supposedly manufactured to very fine tolerances, yet have terrible cam alignment. Did you check that on this bow?
05-18-2004, 06:20 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern PA USA
Posts: 1,398
RE: Newberry B1 report
Straightarrow:
There is a thin (1/16" ?) black composite material of some sort in the area where the the limb rests toward the outboard end of the limb pocket. There was nothing between the limb and pocket in the inside part (closer to the limb bolt.)
I can see no cam lean either in the upper or lower sections. I hadn't really thought about it too much the way the bow has tuned and shot.
There is a thin (1/16" ?) black composite material of some sort in the area where the the limb rests toward the outboard end of the limb pocket. There was nothing between the limb and pocket in the inside part (closer to the limb bolt.)
I can see no cam lean either in the upper or lower sections. I hadn't really thought about it too much the way the bow has tuned and shot.
05-18-2004, 06:37 AM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: Newberry B1 report
Thanks Joe,
I would suspect that vibration would transfer from the limb to the limb pocket, where the limbs meet the sides of the limb pocket if they were touching (and had no vibration material between them. For instance, Diamond has a very tight limb pocket, but they leave enough room to put a thin rubber tube all the way around the sides of the pocket. With the rubber material in place, you actually have to press the limb into the pocket. It is very good at reducing vibration on what is a very light bow. You mentioned noise and recoil, but I don't remember seeing anything in your report about vibration in the riser.
Here's how I measure cam lean. Take a straight arrow and lay it against a flat spot on each cam near where the string comes off (take the arrow tip off). At the midpoint of the string (near the nock), measure the gap from the middle of the string to the edge of the arrow. Double this and you have you cam lean over the entire lenght. Obviously, the smaller the gap, the better job they are doing. I find some manufacturers to be a very good job in this area and others to be doing quite poorly. This affects nock travel greatly and is easy for each of us to measure. A bow with straight and level nock travel can indeed be anything but, if cam lean is extreme.
I would suspect that vibration would transfer from the limb to the limb pocket, where the limbs meet the sides of the limb pocket if they were touching (and had no vibration material between them. For instance, Diamond has a very tight limb pocket, but they leave enough room to put a thin rubber tube all the way around the sides of the pocket. With the rubber material in place, you actually have to press the limb into the pocket. It is very good at reducing vibration on what is a very light bow. You mentioned noise and recoil, but I don't remember seeing anything in your report about vibration in the riser.
Here's how I measure cam lean. Take a straight arrow and lay it against a flat spot on each cam near where the string comes off (take the arrow tip off). At the midpoint of the string (near the nock), measure the gap from the middle of the string to the edge of the arrow. Double this and you have you cam lean over the entire lenght. Obviously, the smaller the gap, the better job they are doing. I find some manufacturers to be a very good job in this area and others to be doing quite poorly. This affects nock travel greatly and is easy for each of us to measure. A bow with straight and level nock travel can indeed be anything but, if cam lean is extreme.
05-18-2004, 10:27 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern PA USA
Posts: 1,398
RE: Newberry B1 report
Swamp Dawg:
The listed IBO speed for the bow is 310, according to the web site.
Straightarrow:
I will measure the cam lean according to your method later today. As far as vibration, I would say very little to none.
The listed IBO speed for the bow is 310, according to the web site.
Straightarrow:
I will measure the cam lean according to your method later today. As far as vibration, I would say very little to none.
05-18-2004, 03:32 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brampton Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,038
RE: Newberry B1 report
Thanks for sharing Joe--almost compares with the Champion Scorpion in some ways--would have loved to see the bow in a VFT model.
If you don't mind, what is the retail on the bow?
If you don't mind, what is the retail on the bow?
05-18-2004, 07:35 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern PA USA
Posts: 1,398
RE: Newberry B1 report
First of all, to Straightarrow, thanks alot for the tip on measuring cam lean. I will be trying that on my other bows as well. As far as the results were concerned... well, the bottom cam was dead on perfect. I could measure no lean at all. The top one was out quite a bit, with the arrow crossing the string and dipping below it. Now, whether the top cam was like that from the factory or not, I can't really say. I did have it apart twice, and the harness sat around while I was working to get the limb pockets all aligned before pressing the bow to reassemble it. It is possible that the cable side of the yoke untwisted itself. I just don't know. Fortunately, it was the top wheel that was out, and twisting the cable side of the split yoke solved the problem. That is something I will start checking more carefully from now on.
ampahunter: I don't know what retail is for the bow. Newberry has run several "promotional" sales programs to get their bows into the hands of shooters and hunters. I took advantage of one of these avenues, and got the bow for less than retail. I am not connected with the company in any way, so it is not like I am a staff shooter or anything like that. I just do not know what a dealer would ask for these bows. I'm pretty sure you can buy them direct from the factory, or request information on a dealer near you to contact about the bows and prices. Sorry I can't answer your question, but I simply do not know the answer.
ampahunter: I don't know what retail is for the bow. Newberry has run several "promotional" sales programs to get their bows into the hands of shooters and hunters. I took advantage of one of these avenues, and got the bow for less than retail. I am not connected with the company in any way, so it is not like I am a staff shooter or anything like that. I just do not know what a dealer would ask for these bows. I'm pretty sure you can buy them direct from the factory, or request information on a dealer near you to contact about the bows and prices. Sorry I can't answer your question, but I simply do not know the answer.