Seen this posted on a new site called ArcheryDealer.
under All Archery Discussion.

http://www.archerydealer.com

Anyone use one ,I want to try one.

I shot one during the few years I shot releases. If I ever go back to release, I'll put one back on the bow. A few of Ragsdale's reasons are a bit - open to discussion - but I definitely agree with most of them.

One of the main suggestions I can make is to keep the string loop heavily waxed so it will be stiff. Makes for a quick and easy hookup and the wax lubricates the loop and reduces wear. You don't have to replace the loop but once or twice a year, depending on how much you shoot. Maybe even less often than that.

Other than the possibility that they come undone, and you get hurt, which is pretty low, I don't think there is anything bad about them.

The big issue to me is what do you gain? in terms of performance. I shoot 3D, and I don't think there are a lot of points in having a loop, it is abundantly clear that you can be a top shooter without shooting the loop.

They are a disadvantage hunting in my opinion. If you were going after cape buffalo would you want one? No way!. So the basic issue is how many more deer in a lifetime will you shoot because you have a loop. I think the answer is slightly negative. There is a mild fumble factor, and there is a mild precision factor, you have to hit a smaller area with the release. On the other hand, when using a release at all you are sorta admiting that fast or funble free shots aren't your tactical priority.


"Eliminates arrow-falloff at full draw.

not a problem with the new nocks

- Makes nocking point location less critical.

Not compared to a single nocking point and release. A lot of the better rests micro adjust the arrow/string relationship

- No need to re-nock after a let-down.

I don't bother with the new lexan nocks

- No serving wear from release aid contact.

True, but you have to do loop maintenance, instalation instead. Serving wear was a big deal with mono, servings could break an ruin your round or hunt. Not a big deal with fast flight braided servings.

- Assures easy one-handloading

Not as easy as single nocking point

- Releases can remain attached and ready to go.

I use a wrist, so I wouldn't want to be attached to me bow all day hunting, this is no advantage on targets. This is mostly appealing because of the fact it's hard to hook up the loop, not terribly, but more difficult that hooking up a string. This is not the only system where you can leave a release attached, there are lots that offer that option.

- Eliminates gaps in serving from up pressure on nocking point.

I have seen gaps with a loop. I never get gaps with a properly installed FF braid, again, old fashioned thinking relative to mono

- Controls peep sight rotation.

Not completely true, I have had the loop stop doing that in the middle of a round, when the inside of the loop got too polished, and it stopped gripping. There are ways around that but basicaly this is a bad, old fashioned idea. Use modern string tech to eliminate need for peep rotation to be controled. If you control it, the string rotates on release, which isn't good. There are plenty of other things that control peep rotation if that is your objective, like finned nocking points.

- Eliminates nock warping due to pinch at full draw.

Someone is still using old fashioned arrow and string nocks!!!

- Allows release aids to be at an angle rather than only level.

Someone is using very old tech releases

- Makes shorter length bows easier to work with.

This is relative to their particular problems with nock pinch and so forth. I never dropped below 36", when that was the shortest draw length people said what Bob is saying about those bows. maybe it finaly became true with 29" bows...

- Extends maximum available sight range area.

I see?

- Prevents arrow from sliding down the string during the shot.

another thing that apparently plagues PSE bows?

- Prevents release aid rope slap with high cheek anchor.

How do you know you are alive you whimp?

- Improves shoulder alignment.

I doubt it. this is based on all those advantages like rotation, and loop existance that you can have with other nocking styles anyway

- Loop length can modify draw length of bow.

And why is it with all these super-micro concenrs you are shooting a bow with the wrong draw length?!!!

- Eliminates chin slap from inward swinging release aid ropes.

Didn't we just cover this you whimp?

- Can be used with all non-rope release aids.

This is far from true, there are many releases, including in my experinece a lot of "loop" aids that are awkward to use with loops, or create too much length. The first Scott loop specific release I used was way harder to use than the regular scott caliper, and there wasn't any reason why it would provide more points, it was total marketing. Of course what is true is that you can experiment with a loop without adding a lot of other gear, and that is a great thing if you want to try somethign out.

- Reduces string vibration noise."

Again this is one of those old school ideas before bow makers stated to really go after string noise with damping technology.

Interestingly the major reason of reducing arrow torque and making spine wider isn't mentioned....

My contention is that while loops are pretty cool, they have been vastly oversold as a solution to every shooting problem. They came along at a time when there were still lot's of technical problems unresolved in our gear, be it torgue, serving issues, maybe noise. They were very cool in that they didn't solve just one problem, but credibly adressed a bunch of them. But huge amounts of stuff have changed since then. I think you can now have your cake and eat it too without usign a loop. There are loop disadvantages, so unless there is one thing that only they could do for you, I am not sure I see the point.

Nice post Ossage...

For the record, I'm loopless and loving it. Shot my 30.5" ata bow at 28.75" draw off the string for a few years with absolutely no problems. Now use a Gator Jaw dual caliper release off the string, same problems, PLUS I can leave my release clipped up and ready to go while in the treestand

Osage , I think it depends on the setup . I saw a guy last season who was a long draw , short axil to axil guy and when he drew his bow right at full draw the arrow came off the string . Put a loop on and problem solved .

Ossage,

Are you saying you wouldn't want one on hunting buffalo because of the fumble factor?

OK I am going to get long winded here so skip to the next section if you don't want to hear a story

I was hunting one day this past season. It was about 10:30 and I looked up and there was a doe running straight at me. I was hunting about 250 yards from a group of duck hunters (I was hunting flooded timber). I could hear the duck hunters getting ready to leave so I didn't think anything about the doe running. I thought she was getting away from them. I started to stand up and let out a loud grunt as I was standing, the doe had already come to a stop. I stood the rest of the way up, grabbed my bow, hooked my release and shot in a matter of about 1.5 - 2 seconds. The doe ran off and hung my bow up to watch her and mark trees (not much of a blood trail in the water). As I was watching I heard something behind me that sounded like a buck grunt. I continued to watch the doe and heard it again. Then it dawned on me that it was a buck grunting. I turned around and there was a pretty nice 8 about 40 yards out trotting straight for my tree. I looked down and grabbed my bow from the EZ hanger and then grabbed an arrow out of my qwiver that was also hanging on the hanger. I looked down and the buck was about 25 yards. I then knocked an arrow and hooked my loop and by then he was about 18 yards. I grunted as I was drawing and he stopped. I put the pin behind his shoulder and realeased and he didn't even make it as far as the doe did. I would lay odds that from the time I saw the buck until the time I released the arrow, five seconds didn't pass. That's about as fast and furious as it has ever been for me while hunting and the loop didn't seem to hamper me at all. So for me I don't see the loop as a detriment. I also wouldn't do anything different if I were hunting buffalo or grizzly or anything else. JMO

Rangeball, you're not loopless at all. You've just got your loop built into your release. It still serves the same purpose: To keep the string square and fully inside the throat of your 'old fashioned' ( [>:]?) nocks.

I'd like to hear more about these miracle nocks you're talking about, Ossage. Sounds like hooey to me.

It would sure come in handy to be able to hook up the release fast when Cape buffalo hunting. If you don't drop that charging buffalo with your arrow he might get ya.

6pt,

You're not dropping a charging buffalo with an arrow. At least not in time There's a good video on AT of a charging lion with a couple of guys pumping it full of large caliber lead and it still made it to them from like 70 yards off. watching that video will give you a new perspective on stopping a charging animal. if you shoot at a cape buffalo you better hope he's broadside and doesn't know you are there, otherwise you are screwed

Art, I agree, but, "Technically", I'm loopless The loop is mimicing what my gator jaw does

I can still slap it on the string faster than trying to hit a loop with a jaw...