As I have been a long time fan of the Muzzy Zero Effect Rest (have 8 bows with ZEs), I was very dissappointed to see how Muzzy has lowered its quality.

A local archer asked me for assistance with a new Zero Effect installation when he discovered that his had come with a blank installation video tape.

I found that in addition to including a blank video tape, the formerly nicely machined (from bar stock) Axle was now a non-uniform diameter stampimg with what appeared to be rolled threads. I've got nothing against rolled threads, but the axle finish and diameter consistency sure aren't what they once were.

I also found the groove for the height adjustment screw had not been machined into the STOP PLATE (how the heck could their QC department miss that?). Fortunately I had a spare that I could give him, but I was very unimpressed by Muzzy's COMPLETE LACK OF QUALITY CONTROL to say the least!!! Blank video tape, Missing Groove in the STOP PLATE, and cheesy low budject AXLE STUD, WHAT QUALITY CONTROL?

They had a great product, I hate to see their Quality go down the Tubes! I might also mention that the instuctions and drawings included with the rest looked nothing like the rest. (It was for a new HOYT). Come on Muzzy, you can and have been better than this!

First, the tapes are made FOR Muzzy and packaged in a sealed plastic wrapping. They will surely expedite a new tape to you if you got a blank one. Just call them.

Second, the new design of the arm and turnbuckle was changed to facilitate easier assembly. The older design could be a real BEAR to assemble. Although it may have been tighter, it was at times too tight.

Third and lastly, their testing showed that the grove in the stop plate was not necessary.

Remember, they bought the design from Joe Angeloni. Joe did a great job on the design; but, like everything, improvements can always be made. One of them that you didn't mention was the change from a roller slide to a solid slide. I asked them for a solid slide two years before they brought it out. It took that much testing and deliberation before they would change it.

Hope this helps.

If by chance you recived something you were not satisfied with , and had called muzzy I'm sure they would have gone "above and beyond" what one would consider good customer service to make you happy . Thats is how I have allways been treated whenever I have delt with muzzy . I know you are talking quality and workmanship here , and again I'll say if there is a problem muzzy will make it right . Everything I have that is muzzy is of top quality and does what it says it will , unlike allot of false claims made by the other rest manufactures . Now if you've got a problem with some mathews limbs try and deal with them about a "quality" issue and see what kind of responce you get . The bottem line is all manufactures at some point will have some issues sometimes their fault and sometimes not , like packing and shiping problems they cant control , its not if its when its going to happen . Its how the company deels with it that makes the diferance .

Len,

As you may recall, I have always been one of the Muzzy Zero Effect rests biggest proponents and have extolled its virtues many times on this and other boards.

You are correct in your statement about the arm and the turnbuckle. I have been pleased with these improvements as well as with the solid slide.

That being said, this poor gentleman that purchased a new Muzzy ZE was clearly the victim of LOUSY QUALITY CONTROL.

As someone who is intimately familiar with the ISO 9000 quality control specification as well as a large number of Mil Specs, I can tell you that sending out a product with a set of installation instructions and explosion drawings of components that do not match the ones that come in the package is NOT GOOD QUALITY CONTROL. The Muzzy instructions specifically stated, “The stop plate (Item 20) should also be adjusted so that the stop screw centers the V groove”. When there turns out not to be a V groove in the stop plate that you received, what would you call it… QUALITY CONTROL? This poor guy couldn’t get a clue. Heck, the contents of the ZE for the Hoyts and the packaged instructions barley look like the same product.

By the way, in my opinion the groove is beneficial. Should one bump the rest against a tree while aiming, the groove provides a solid engagement that is self centering.

Whether the tapes are produced by a subcontractor or not, good quality control of your subs would insure that a customer did not receive a blank tape. I have always been very fond of Muzzy Products, and yes I know that they would happily send a new tape, but this gentleman who wanted to put together his new Hoyt setup on his weekend shouldn’t have to be making calls and waiting for a good tape because of a lack of good Quality Control. That’s what quality control is all about. Muzzy has Superb Customer Service, but with good Quality Control, there would be no need for this gentleman to engage Muzzy’s terrific Customer Service Department in the first place.

As for the Axle bolt, it probably works OK, but it is not even in the same class as the original lathe turned ones that were made from bar stock.

I shoot Muzzy Zero Effect rests as well as their broadheads, but I hate to see this from one of my favorite archery manufacturers.

If they are not going to put a groove in the Stop Plate, don’t tell someone to center the groove in your instructions!! Len, this isn’t rocket science, but don’t tell someone to put peg A in hole B if there is NO hole B.

Len, you and I both know what good quality control is and what it is not. Hopefully Muzzy will put in instructions and drawings that match their products, and if they want to send a video with the product, make sure it isn’t a blank one.

Muzzy has always been tops in my books, but someone needs to look at the QC on the ZE rests that they are shipping IMHO.

Nubbb:

When is the last time I looked at the instructions for the MZE?? I can't remember.

Anyhow, I have to agree with you on some of your points. Moreso the paperwork than the material matters. The instructions should compliment the actual product and there is no excuse not to have it that way.

I have noted to Muzzy this and some other minor discrepancies that I have found. I can tell you that they listen. I forwarded a link to this thread to the right people there. Let's see how/when they respond.

One thing I'd like for you to consider before posting the title of another thread. Please phrase it in the form of a question rather than an emphatic statement. You got me very concerned immediately about one manufacturer that has shown me the courtesy of listening to reason and trying to understand our true needs. I think we owe it to our better manufacturers to give them the benefit of the doubt and time to properly respond. Then, if you don't get a decent explanation, or get the run-around, blast them all you want.

Thanks.

Len,

Point taken. Muzzy has always been one of my favorites!

I was so dissappointed when I went to help this poor gentleman (he was about to pull his hair out).

I have changed the subject line of this thread as you suggested. I hope that Muzzy will simply put some attention where it is needed and make it easy for customers such as this gentleman to use and enjoy their products as they should. Letting QC go to pot is not good for the bottom line in the long run.

I do feel that they are cutting corners in eliminating the groove and with the new axle, but that is their choice to make.

Happy New Year to you and your family.

Nubbb:

Thanks for your understanding. I didn't like the elimination of the groove either; but, they are the ones doing the testing. If it makes a difference, I'm sure time will tell.

You don't know how frustrating it was to wait so long for the testing to be completed on the solid slide. I also complained about how hard it was at times to assemble the old main arm and turnbuckle. Like I said, it takes time for the mechanical changes, due to the testing required.

Q.C. and documentation problems should be easy to correct.

My best to you and yours as well.

I am below posting the response that I received over on the Bowsite from Mark Land of Muzzy. I am doing this for the benefit of those who did not read his response at the Bowsite.

Muzzy has always been one of my favorite suppliers and I am happy to say that it looks like they are addressing the QC issues that I was concerned about.

"Nubbb, We definitely apologize for the blank tape, it is contracted out and comes in to us, sealed and wrapped. We will definitely exchange that asap as well as with any other problems that may happen. The instruction sheet was a problem, but due to the amount that we have to order when we make changes, we had to be sure they were right before printing new ones. I have redone all the instruction sheets to coorelate with our changes and they will be included with all new rests, all instructions for every model rest will be on the same package in every rest. We had many different discrepencies with the old instruction sheets and the video and are taking care of that problem, we will be doing a new video next month. The video, like the new instruction sheet, will cover all models of the rest. The changes in the stop plate groove were tested over time and it was determined that the groove was not needed for consistency with the rest and made installation difficult and confusing for some. Just as in the teflon-impregnated slide w/o rollers and the molding of some parts, any changes were done to facilitate better assembly of the rest and less confusion for the user. We will not sacrifice performance or quality of any of our products. QC, as well as customer service is a priority with us and we have taken steps to ensure more strict control in the future. Mistakes can happen, especially with the large volume we deal with, but we make sure to take care of those quickly and personally to ensure the user is satisfied and handled quickly. Any changes or modifications to our products are thoroughly tested well in advance before any changes are implemented in our line. Some can be to facilitate production or improve performance or satisfaction with our products. Any problems or inquiries can be directed to me and you will be assured of prompt assistance and handling in those matters. We apologize for any inconvenience you experienced, but rest assured(no pun intended) you and any problem will be addressed and taken care of. Thanks, Mark Land(Technical Support Specialist, Muzzy Products) "

There you go. A 'quality' answer from a 'quality' concerned company.

Honestly, it just takes time in a conservative company to make changes. They think and rethink too many times.