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I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
This weekend at the Eastern Sports and Outdoor Show in Harrisburg, Kevin Duffy of BowTech set one up for a friend and myself to shoot(didn't take any prodding:)Nice guy by the way.
WHat I got my hands on was a 29"/60# model shooting "I have no idea what weight" carbon arrows....... This isn't going to be a "Bow Report" exactly but more like initial impressions...... First of all when they say "VFT" or Vertical Force Technology.....they mean it!!! The limb pockets are cut at a 44 deg. angle which puts the limbs at a serious sweep backward. Their resting position is where many bows limbs sit at full draw......it's VERY dramatic and needs to be seen in person to appreciate it. Pictures don't do it justice. When the bow is drawn there is VERY little limb tip movement......and I mean VERY VERY little. They just sort of dip to almost perfectly parallel to the ground,......total limb tip travel I'd bet is about 1". This vertical firing of the limbs and very short travel is what cancels out the recoil and shock......people are saying that this is a Mathews design copy? I aint never seen a Mathews looking like this thing! The bow is super stable in the hand, and actually feels like a longer bow than it is.....the long riser sort of tricks the mind with how it feels. The specs also say that it weighs 4.25lbs?? Well my "Pro38" is supposed to be the same weight, but the "Patriot" just feels lighter(much lighter).....so either it balances better, or my bow is just fat:). The new 2002 "Pro" risers by the way are SWEET!!....I thought the 2001 were machined nice, well these make my 2001 "Pro38"'s look like yesterday's news!! They are a bit slimmer at profile and every cut-out has a beveled edge.....not just a straight 90 degree cut. NICE TOUCH! (and of course the stainless stablizer bushings front and back.) I'm not entirely sure, but I think the finish is even BETTER for the 2002's......might just be me, but it looked different and better. (maybe I'm just in love:)) ANyway.....on to the shooting......there was no chrono, or grain scales blah blah blah.....you just have to be at this show to understand. There isn't room for all that crap......lucky we could find a corner of the 3D range to fling a few. I was shooting at 1" below my draw length at 29" and less weight than I'm used to at 60#.....so of course it's gonna feel smooth to me. BUT SMOOTH ISN'T THE WORD FOR THIS BOW!! I've shot a Mathews Q2 at these same specs.....the Mathews was smooth......This Patriot was like the cream on top of smooth.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> There was nothing on the string and no Limbsavers.......the only thing I could hear was the spring on the crappy imprompto rest he had to throw on it, and string twang. When you are hearing string twang.....and I mean the pitch of it and not feeling it, the bow is QUIET. There is honestly......no vibration and recoil, none, notta , zip. Now like I said this isn't exactly the specs I am used to, but I'm no dummy either. The bow is sweet. Can't evaluate accuracy any farther than the fact that there were no sights on the bow......(he just pulled it right off the rack).....but 3 shafts in a 1" group at 18yards under pressure INSTINCTIVE ....I'll take it.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>(forgot I could still do that) Anyway........Try the bow, be the bow, love the bow,Buy the bow. It's not hype, it's for real.....I had my hands on one and it's everything they say it is. I don't have a clue how fast the bow I shot was going, but it was spitting them pretty briskly......if a 30" 70# model at about 318fps is even CLOSE to the recoil, vibration and noise level of the 29"/60# you aren't prepared for a combination of speed and smoothness like this. I've never shot another bow like it. Oh.......and that "Tomcat" package bow is another story(come with Tru-Glo sight,BowTech stabilizer and quiver, a GKF rest and some more stuff.....maybe arrows, silencers etc. etc. for I think(reads if I could remember<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>) mid $300's......A beginning archers dream!! I think about 32" ATA / 9.5" brace height,same finish on the riser but it's super slim and very light......and will do like high 290's. A cool cool little bow. Looks like a cross between a Mighty Mite and a Stalker....but slimmer and lighter. Edited by - PABowhntr on 02/07/2002 13:49:08 Edited by - Matt / PA on 02/07/2002 22:09:06 |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Thanks for the info Matt I am in the market for a new bow and have tried the havoctec and cybertec now I cant wait till I can get into Ft Worth to try the Patriot thats my other choice and if it is as 1/2 as good as you say then I guess I will be getting it
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RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Thanks for the report Matt! Sounds like one heck of a bow, I can't wait to give it a go.
I like what you said about the feeling of a longer bow in a shorter bow package. I liked the Q2XL more than the Q2 mainly due to the length, but I did notice the riser was fairly long on that bow for being under 34" ata. I hope to give it a test run in the near future. No telling when they get their shipment up here. Guess I'll need to be patient. |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Matt, I may have to lock this topic before I go and do somthing stupid!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> thanks for the input.
TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING AND YOU WON'T BE HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Bow sounds great, but the report has left me puzzled. <img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle> If the limbs only deflect about an inch, where does the power come from? Is the riser bending? Are the limbs super thick? Something must be different from traditional bows.
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RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Ok Matt, my offer still stands...get Bowtech to make it in a 31 inch draw length and I will buy it....<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
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RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
I just thought I'd add a little something to this thread before it's too late. The TomKat and the BlackHawk both sell for more than $300.00 MSRP on the bows are TomKat-$449.00 and BlackHawk-$549.00 but final retail is up you the dealer.
Good job on the Patriot semi/report :) I've got a 60 lb. Patriot I've been letting people try out and the results are all the same. Very smooth and shock free and holds great. All positive comments from everyone so far. Your right about the 44 degree limb angles. Pretty wild huh? I don't think anyone else has that much angle on their models but, I'm not possitive. Straightarrow, It's in the limb preload and cam design. It's wild to see it shoot because as Matt states the lims only move an inch or so but shoots 312-320 IBO speeds. PABowhunter, I can make it 31" for ya with a string loop<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Edited by - BowTech_Shooter on 02/04/2002 06:43:15 |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
PABowhntr,
Or you can do what I'm gonna do, and take the grip off, and shoot it with a loop. That should put me very close to 31". If it's still too short for me to shoot comfortably, then it'll go back to the dealer in exchange for the 2002 BK2. I've had mine on order since 12/15 and I'm really getting antsy for it to show up. |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Thank you for the suggestions gents.....but since God gave me a 31 inch draw length I want to make full use of it....
...give me that ultra long powerstroke and that "extra" 10 fps....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>....I guess I will have to wait till next year...if I am lucky....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
It's too bad your set on using your 31" draw length advantage. I was going to also suggest that instead of BowTech or any other manufacturer change their designs for you, you could go have you draw length changed surgically...LOL<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
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RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
I posted this in the "Technical" thread too, but if you want to see a video of the Patriot, plus other makers bows/products, check out this link. Got my Patriot ordered Saturday. Now if I can just get it in before the season opens...
Here is the link: http://www.bowsite.com/BOWSITE/featu...icles/AMO2002/ |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Matt thanks for the info. I like to hear you's guys opinions on the new stuff. I have seriously wanted to get the Patriot and I think I will. Although if I do, it will put 5shot over the edge. Thats ok Bro, I'll let you barrow it. Yea right. Thanks again Matt.
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RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Frank,
You know, I felt the same exact way for many a year. For years I have shot around a 29- 29 1/4" AMO draw length and shot it pretty accurately. When my "hero", Burley Hall started using a loop I had to try one. I got rid of it after a week...I just didn't want to give up the speed. Even up to about a year and a half ago, I was pretty adamant against loops. After finally giving them a fair shake over the past year and shortening my draw length accordingly, I don't think I would ever go back to a straight string release. They really do "pull it all together" when set-up correctly and given some time to get used to. I know I'm giving up 10-12 or more FPS on every bow, and on some bows I really could use the extra speed..however I've found that I'm able to pull a bit more weight,the loop & tru-peep is lighter than a brass nock or two,eliminator, and heavier sherz-a-peep.. and I can shoot lighter arrows to get the speed (but not KE) back w/out sacrificing any accuracy...my consistency from day to day is better, and when I'm "on", my groups are tighter than when I was "on" shooting a straight string release. Plus not having to worry about the peep, or putting a bow in the press to put on new eliminators, etc. Heck, I shot eliminators, a Sherz a peep, and brass or tied in nocks for 10 years plus... Although I'll buy any bow I can get my hands on, accessory wise I'm pretty "un-experimental". My #1 sight is a 3 year old Montana Black Gold Grand Slam..it's been on about 8 or 10 bows, and I've had to replace the lockdown screws casue I've adjusted it so much. My Hi-Tek FATS 10" 13 oz. stabilizer is 5 or 6 years old..been on I don't know how many bows, and is starting to look like a polished silver 3D stabilizer cause of all the scratches. My NAP 1000 or Hoyt NAP 1000 rests have been on the majority of my bows since 1997 or 1998. Believe you me when I say it takes alot to get me try a new accessory (I still have no desire to try a fall-away rest for example, or a moveable pin sight). Geez..for the first 8-10 months they were out, I wouldn't even try Limb Savers, then the next year Leeches, both of which I couldn't do without now. I remember ripping them off my AccuTec after I decided I "didn't need em..I don't care how good they work..they are ugly, they wont last...", etc. etc. Anyways, obviously you need to shoot what is comfy for you..just thought I would give you some food for thought.. BTW, My Patriot is on order as well. JeffB :) |
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RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Bull 1870,
If you are talking about the former Archer's Attic in Carmel, then you are correct...there was something to it. BTW, after seeing the Bowsite coverage video I just might call my dealer and ask for a G-3.2...i've always wanted one of those oddball looking things :) JeffB :) |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
OK.......for those of you who haven't seen it yet , here's your chance to put "The face with the Name" so to speak.
Hey Jeff!..., You know that yuo don't need to give up the draw length with a string loop? I shoot the same exact 30" model bows I've always shot with a regular caliper release........but now I use a string loop. How?......simple, a Scott "Rhino" release. The Rhino allows you to assume the same anchor as you would with a long barreled release like a Mongoose......I tie a short 1/2" loop, and the trigger sits just behind the end of the loop. The head is super short which "imitates" the length of a regular sized caliper release, and the fact that there are no jaws to put thru the loop you can tie it pretty short.......it's just an angled peg. This set up allows me to shoot my normal draw length + a loop = no loss of performance......if anything I GAIN some because of the ability to use such a short loop. On top of that, I think the "Rhino"'s design is superior for loop shooting because there is no jaw "Kick"......the entire peg assembly "Free floats" on a pivot point allowing the string to fire dead straight away. My anchor with the Rhino and a loop is identical to how I would shoot off the string with a Scott Mongoose caliper release with the same 30" bow...... Try it and go back to your normal draw length!!! BowTech_Shooter....thanks for chiming in with the $$ of the TomKat......now that I really think about it, I think that particular dealer had it on the rack for maybe $390ish.00 You guys are gonna dig that Patriot.:) Edited by - Matt / PA on 02/04/2002 18:23:09 |
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RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
MAtt,
Been there, done that as they say. I shot a Rhino up until November or so. I tried everything I could to keep my draw length the same, and I just could not get it right. I tried various loop lengths, positions on the release, draw length settings on my adjustable cams you name it, I tried it. I think my low anchor point and the extreme string angles of most short bows just throws me out of alignment, both vertically and horizontally unless I shorten my draw up a tad. JeffB :) |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Jeff,
Well......I gave it a shot!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> I'm surprised.....it's worked out pretty well for me. MAybe because my true draw length is a tad OVER 30" to start with, could be why that particular set up works so well for me. By the way......my buddy just laid down the cash for a new Patriot this evening. (He actually called our local dealer on his cell phone from the sports show 5 minutes after shooting the bow!!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>)......tonight he just made it official. Now all I have to do is wait a month after he gets it .....convince him somehow that he really HATES it......."Take it off his hands" for about $200 cheaper.......buy a $10 30" module and I'm IN!!![<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> Hey......It's worth a shot.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Gentleman,
Again, thank you for the kind suggestions. I do appreciate them sincerely. Bowtech Shooter, I was not suggesting that Bowtech or any other company change the design of their bow or bows to suit me...but rather to suit the large number of archers who are shooting their correct draw lengths of over 30 inches. Shooting too long of a draw length can be detrimental to shooting form, accuracy, etc... Everyone knows that...but what alot of folks fail to mention is that shooting too short of a draw length can have the same affect. I have a serious issue with companies that only appeal to the "majority" of archers/bowhunters out there. That is one of the reasons that you won't see me buy a bow from several companies. They tend to cater to the "average" shooter and have very few options for shooters who don't fit that mold. It would appear that Bowtech has taken a step in the right direction by offering bows like the Tech29 and Extreme Short Draw for shooters whose draw lengths are below average...but what about those folks who have draw lengths over 30 inches and who want to shoot bows that are 34 inches and under in axle to axle length. In my opinion, Bowtech never should have gotten rid of the Mighty Mite with the 31 inch draw length option. They lost many potential customers there. A flagship bow like the Patriot should be made available with options that would allow more than just the average shooter to take advantage of. Shorter and longer draw lengths would be a great step in the right direction. I apologize if this post sounds a bit harsh. It was not meant to be...and I have been told that I sound that way sometimes even when it is not my intention. As for the "surgically altered" suggestion....I don't know if using those words is a good thing to say to any man....<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Jeff, You have given me some food for thought..and I do appreciate it. Who knows....maybe after many more years of shooting I will "lose" my longer than average draw length...like Arthur and be forced to use "shortish" 30 inch draw equipment...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Matt, That looks like a Mathews!!! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> |
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RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
PA, My last thread was meant strictly as a joke. Believe me I wish I could get the extra speeds that come with having a 31" draw. But I now see that along with that comes the problem of finding a bow that draws long enough.
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RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Frank,
Don't rule out the Stalker... Yeah I know, It doesn't have the SandTraps, or the W/C strings/cables. Really for a smaller investment you could have the bow you want. $400 for a Stalker w/ Infinity cam. $50-70 for the NV system from PSE(which accomplishes the same if not more than the Sandtraps as far as vibration & noise). And who knows the new BT Vibrablock may be even better. If you end up liking the bow you can order the W/C strings/Cables for $90 or so. Honestly the "low end" strings/cable from Bowtech are not that bad. I think I had to re-set my 2000 ES option 2's timing twice (it uses the same string/cable as the Stalker does now) which compared to many othe bows/strings I've had is doing very well! Now it's been sitting for awhile in my basement and is starting to get ratty. End result is about $550 bucks...$50 cheaper than a MM SRP. My local dealer shoots the same exact set-up for hunting(Stalker w/ NV & Infinity), and the bow is very quiet, and is only about 9 FPS slower than his MM appples to apples (He has a 28" draw). With your 31" draw I don't see why you would not be getting close to if not better performance than a 30" draw MM (considering the Stalker's more agressive limb angle). I almost bought one, and I still might! Also you might want to look into those new package models w/ the 9 1/8" brace height. I know one of them is 32" Axle to Axle and goes up to 31". I suspect that one of the reasons you don't see a 31" MM or similar length bow is due to technical factors. I can't imagine the string angle on a 31" draw MM. Even a 29" Tech-29 is borderline ludicrous w/ the angle of the limbs on those bows. There's alot more to it than just the company not wanting to produce shorty bows for long draw length archers. While other companies do it, their designs do not have nearly the same performance, and it's quite possible the stress levels are too much on the "pushing the limits" Bowtech designs. The Stalker being less performance oriented for the average draw length, probably gets into the near maximum threshold level of performance w/ the 31" draw length. The other bows in the 31" draw length are all heavier, and longer (i.e. More apt to handle the increased stress in the shooting system). Also even if Bowtech was simply to machine a larger module, you would run into problems of cam over-rotation at full draw & beyond normal cable serving wear in addition to possibly overstressing the design. Heck, send me a check for $300 and I'll ship you out my 2000 ES option 60 LB'er. You can buy a 31" module for it! :) EDIT: I forgot to mention that no-one is saying that you should shorten your draw length. By using a 30" module, and then adding a loop to compensate you are virtually changing nothing other than a possible loss of performance. Since your hand will be at the same anchor position it will keep your alignment correct. JeffB :) Edited by - JeffB on 02/05/2002 10:44:31 |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Bowtech Shooter,
I know you were joking..that is why I put the ":)" at the end of my last statement...:)...though it did allow me to express my feelings about the draw length issue. Jeff, Your last paragraph.... <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I suspect that one of the reasons you don't see a 31" MM or similar length bow is due to technical factors. I can't imagine the string angle on a 31" draw MM. Even a 29" Tech-29 is borderline ludicrous w/ the angle of the limbs on those bows. There's alot more to it than just the company not wanting to produce shorty bows for long draw length archers. While other companies do it, their designs do not have nearly the same performance, and it's quite possible the stress levels are too much on the "pushing the limits" Bowtech designs. The Stalker being less performance oriented for the average draw length, probably gets into the near maximum threshold level of performance w/ the 31" draw length. The other bows in the 31" draw length are all heavier, and longer (i.e. More apt to handle the increased stress in the shooting system). Also even if Bowtech was simply to machine a larger module, you would run into problems of cam over-rotation at full draw & beyond normal cable serving wear in addition to possibly overstressing the design. Heck, send me a check for $300 and I'll ship you out my 2000 ES option 60 LB'er. You can buy a 31" module for it! :) JeffB :) <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> ....was just what I had expected/assumed. Alot of the models that I have had past interest in (not only Bowtech's) are not offered in anything over 30 inches....most of the speed bows from PSE, Hoyt, several of the short High Country options, most of the Mathews lineup and now some of the Bowtech models. Having said that, what I really want is one of these super fast bows with a large brace height and that are offered in my draw length....then, no matter what Matt posts, I can say, "yeah, but mine is 10 fps faster" <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Just out of curiousity...what do you think would happen if I were to order a Hypertec and would proceed to take the draw stop out of it? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
I'm in the same boat as Frank with a 31" draw. Frank, I agree that it's just as bad to draw too short. Actually, I'm one of the few archers who would rather draw a little too long than short. I've said this before... I can't stand the feel of not quite getting there when I draw a bow. I'd rather draw sligtly too long anyday, jmo. I consider Randy Ulmer the greatest 3-D shooter who ever lived. Randy always drew too long. It didn't seem to cause him any problems. If I got a Bowtech, I wold go with the Pro38, BK2, or new G-3.2 Sag. |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Just out of curiousity...what do you think would happen if I were to order a Hypertec and would proceed to take the draw stop out of it? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> It would still be slower than a BT MM! :) If you were serious,I don't think you would have a problem anyways. My HavocTec is meant to shoot w/out a stop if you want the 75%+ option. I've shot it that way for grins. I can't imagine that the new Hypertec would be a very shootable bow however, w/ it's lower brace, and 3" shorter axle to axle. The old one shot pretty well for a speedbow, but that's because it really wasn't that fast compared to the competition. Now they have made it faster by dropping the brace and are de-stabilizing the bow further with a shorter 33" AtoA. For someone w/ a 29"+ draw, that's pushing the envelope too far IMO. I'm serious about the Stalker too. It really does shoot fast and nice for what it is. I've shot my dealer's as I spoke about, and it's a neat little bow. Somwhere along the lines of the original Havoc in noise and recoil w/ better speed. Have you also looked at the Parker offerings? I believe the UL31 might come in a 31 draw, and I know that the 35 does. If there weren't so many BT models I want right now (I can't remember the last time when I wanted at least 4 bows from one manufacturers line at the same time), I'd be grabbing an UL35 or 38. Granted they are not quite as fast as a BT or have the "as solid" wall, but they do shoot very well,are very quiet and of solid construction. JeffB :) |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Jeff,
Thank you for the suggestion. I looked at the Stalker when it first came out but I didn't see it as giving me a significant advantage over the original Havoc Redline or the Mathews FX. If I remember correctly the advertised speed on the Stalker is/was slower than both the original Havoc Redline (310) and the FX (310). I can always hope though...for next year....when one of the manufacturers breaks the barrier surrounding this issue. The Parker Ultralite31 is only offered to a 30 inch draw length. The Ultralite 35 is offered in a 31 inch draw length but it is about 10 fps slower than the UL31, so there is no advantage. The original Havoc Redline is the closest I have ever come to perfection..but, alas, it is up for sale on Ebay as we speak....<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle> Sag., You know how I feel my friend...and I would be forced to look at the same bows....if I did go with a Bowtech at this point then it would be the BK2 (if they still make the higher brace height/longer draw length option)....but I just can't bring myself to shoot a bow with less than a 7 inch brace height.... ..If they at least made a "Pro35"...:)...with a 7 inch brace height, 320-325 fps IBO speed, 31 inch draw length and that Infinity cam......wwwwooooooo dogggy, I would buy one in a heartbeat...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Edited by - PABowhntr on 02/05/2002 12:35:22 |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Frank,
Aye.. you said it yourself. ADVERTISED speed. I don't know about you, but I have never shot a Havoc that hit IBO speeds, redline, C-cam or otherwise (at least at AMO 30" length). And if the BK2 would be to your liking why not a Pro 38 (same 37.25" axle to axle), G-3 (Again 37.25'), or specifically the 2002 Extreme Solo option 2 (35 1/2", 7" brace, draws to 31")? Basically the Extreme Solo option 2 fits your specifications, and w/ your 31" draw, you would be in the high 3 teens to 320 FPS range. It's lighter than a Pro-series riser as well. Now snake out of that one! ;) We WILL make you a convert! JeffB :) |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
I don't know Jeff...my Havoc Redline and the FX I tried both shot pretty darn to close to their advertised IBO speeds with IBO setups...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
I took a gander at the Option 2 Extreme Solo....but 6.6 inches isn't 7 and 7 is the lowest I will go on brace height....it is funny but I think the Extreme Solo's riser looks a heck of alot like PSE's Carrera...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>... ....but that would probably be the closest one of the bunch. I looked at Matt's Pro 38...and the BK2...both have attractive stats.....but I just can't seem to get myself to shoot anything over 34 inches axle to axle....:) Thanks for the time and effort though.........it is going to take alot to "convert" this one....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Yeah Frank!?
What about it?.....I know it isn't the Patriot, but the Extreme Solo fits that criteria to a "T" Actually Jeff is probably being a bit conservative speed wise......I have yet to shoot one that didn't fall into at least the middle of that advertised speed "range".(My "Pro38" is at the high end) Since the Extreme Solo at 7" Brace Height is rated at 311-319 at 30".....you can pretty much just up those numbers to 321-329fps....middle of the road say 324-325fps. And with the way you like to shoot with a light string you aren't going to lose much speed.....I'd expect right around 320 with that 31" draw of yours. Even if you back it down to 65# you'd still be doing over 310 at IBO arrow weight. Even better......You could expect almost the same numbers from the "Pro38" single cam with the same 7" brace height......it's not much longer either when you think about it, (37.3"ATA) equals about 1" longer at either end than your "self imposed" limits.....and it will be much smoother, quiter and more vibration and recoil free than the Extreme Solo. GREAT BOW, and I bet you'd love it......but you have this "little bow complex" thing going on which puts a great many wonderful bows out of your range.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>:) Heck the "Pro 38" is only 1.75" longer on each end than the Patriot!.....hold the 2 side by side and it isn't much. It's not going to quite as recoil free as the Patriot, but it's second in line and a terrific bow. Remember the days when a 36-37" bow was SHORT!?......(and your 6'4 for cryin out loud.)<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Oh well.......I guess I'll just stay 10fps faster.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Ahh.....(this is edited cause you beat me to the button!) Actually the 2002 Extreme Solo "Option 2 " IS 7"......and trust me a PSE this bow is not!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Still say you'd really like the "Pro38".....you saying you can't handle a 7" brace height on the single or a 6.8" on the dual??.....I know a dealer who has (3) left over Pro38 dual cams! I can e-mail you the info and price!.......just think Frank.......330's at 65#!? Sounds pretty good huh? and 348-350 at 70#? I guess you don't really need 93+ ft lbs of KE anyway to kill a deer right??......that would be terrible for trying to "Cut em' in Half" huh?<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Keep shooting those 1 1/8" heads and your little bows......I'll keep using my set-ups to field dress my deer for me.<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> Edited by - Matt / PA on 02/05/2002 16:10:56 |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Frank, the 2001 ES opt 2 has the 6.6" brace.
Y2K and 2002 models have a 7" brace. Nanny Nanny boo boo! :) EDIT: I've seen one Havoc come close at 30" AMO measured w/ nothing on the sring but a served on nock point..304. The best I've seen an FX do at AMO 30" (which was a 29" cam model) was 291, again w/ tied on nock point. Not disputing your numbers just giving a reference of mine.. I think 500 FPS has/had an FX..wonder what he got..he has the monster draw like you.. JeffB :) Edited by - JeffB on 02/05/2002 17:07:04 |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
For what it's worth Frank, here's some numbers for ya that I get on my 2001 ES with the 6.6" brace height: 31" draw, 76 lbs, tru-peep, rope nock, 331 gr. arrow, 342 fps. I know it's not 5 gr/lb, but it was just a test arrow. I also gave the cable a few extra twists for the extra poundage. On my hunting arrow, which weighed 410 grains and I shot at 68 lbs, I got 300 even.
Rod |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
jeff, matt, good luck... if you can convert frank you can change anyone. least thats how i see it. by the way my bk2 hits 101 ke. i could drop my arrow weight gain a few fps and loose a few lbs of ke. im shooting 145grn now. ill be working on ABMathews on my end when he comes back to town. speaking of jerry bring your bow back so you can try some carbons. ive got one thats too short for me to shoot.
|
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Cute Ron. lol.
Actually, I will be bringing my bow back home, but I'm stopping in Wasilla for a brief minute to have Fletchers take the cam off. I'm trading my 27" cam for a 29" cam, and will have to wait for the 29"er to get here before I'm ready to shoot again. Catch you in town in a few days. I'm down to #6 on stand bye with my flight. I should be able to get a seat... I hope! |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
ok jerry, guess ill just have to lend you a couple carbons to TRY out when you get you cam on. you WILL be amazed. you still need to shoot my bowtech. actualy you can do me a favor by doing so. one of my accessories are giveing me some noise and that way i can listen to see if i can figure it out. the only guy i work with that could shoot my bow is left handed. but you should bring your release and arm guard if you use one {i dont have an arm guard} i understand your trying that glove thingy. im shooting a tru-fire x-caliper II.
been wondering about fletchers in wasilla thought i might run by there last time i was in town but no i had to change a ujoint and was a day late getting back to fairbanks. Ron |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
You're getting noise from your bow? I'm not familiar with that problem. Oh, that's right, your not shooting a mathews. How soon I forget! <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>
I'd like to give that bow of yours a try. I'll have two different releases on me when I get home, so you can try them both out if you want. I'm writing up a review for Thane on the Winn Archery release, so I'll get your input on that one as well. |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Hmmm, I think I am getting double-teamed! Some folks must smell a fresh "kill" in the air...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Well, lets take this a step further. The Extreme Solo would fit the bill nicely....except for it being just a tad longer in axle to axle length than what I like..... ....and, apparently, it is somewhat noisier than the other Bowtech bows with more handshock.... ...so, if I want a quieter, more vibration free bow then I am going to have to look at the Pro38 or Patriot.... ...but we can rule out the Patriot because it isn't offered in the 31 inch draw length.... ...and the Pro38 is just too dang long for me....and anything over 4 lbs is just "too heavy" to carry when you compare it to what I am shooting now. Explain to me again why I need to switch? Granted, my bow isn't going to shoot as fast as the Bowtech lineup but it sounds like.... ... if I want to get a Bowtech that fits my draw length I am going to have to go a longer axle to axle length. ....if I want to get a Bowtech that is as quiet and vibration free as my current bow then I am going to have to shoot a heavier (mass weight) bow. ...if I want to get a Bowtech because of the increased speed then I am going to have to pull a stiffer draw force curve which wouldn't be an issue when I am out on the 3D course or on the target range but when my muscles are stiff from sitting in a treestand and a dandy buck walks by..........? At least when Mathews came out with their perimeter weighted single cam they reduced noise/vibration with a lightweight bow that spit out some sweet arrow speeds for the time. That compensated, somewhat, for the stiffer draw cycle of the perimeter weighted cam. It sounds like Bowtech bumped the speed game "up a notch" but had to resort to a heavier bow to absorb more of the excess energy generated by the new cam. As I stated in an earlier post, everything is a series of tradeoffs....you don't get something for nothing. What it boils down to is that if I want to shoot a faster arrow from a Bowtech bow then I am going to have to give up on the idea of a lightweight bow.....or forget about a short axle to axle length......or deal with some more noise and vibration....and a stiffer draw cycle. But, I will go this far.....Matt, do me a favor and email me the guy's name and number (or directions to the shop). I don't know if I want that llllooooooonnnnnngggg Pro38 but I would be willing to give it a try...:)....and, maybe, he might have one of the Extreme Solos in stock by the time I get there....<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Personally, I’m busting Frank’s chops more than really trying to get him to switch (though I do think he should really try a loop for awhile). Obviously he loves those Hoyt bows, and at one time I felt the same way…I would try several different brands and always come back. Now, Hoyt has moved on in a direction different from mine, and Bowtech has kind of moved in. I was the same w/ HCA for many a year before I started w/ the Hoyt models “full time”. Seems every 5 or 6 years I get bored or disappointed w/ my “fave” company and move on. I suspect in a few years, Frank will hit the same. Heck I remember when he was buying Martins’ and PSE’s and other stuff, including his Magnatec….then he got that Havoc, and he’s been possessed..errr...that is…changed..ever since. I think everybody hits that level w/ one company or another. PW12 has his Merlins, Frank and Rob have their Hoyts, Matt and now I too have the Bowtechs, Ossage has his Mathews, Len has his Dartons..etc..
I think the fact that Frank could shoot heavier arrows, and/or drop his bow weight and get the same speed, more KE, similar noise and recoil, and a similar if not easier draw just goes in one ear and out the other. He’s in LOVE w/ that HavocTec….poor sod… Or it could just be that his better half has been on his case about buying bows…this 180 degree “I’m sticking with what I got..I can't hear you! LA LA LA LA LA ” turn-around happened a few weeks after he got married…and that’s a most sad circumstance..I’ve walked in those shoes, and still do on occasion…the bows are getting fewer and farther between..but I’m able to sell a couple, and bring another one in thankfully.. Seems like Frank’s wife has LAID DOWN THE LAW! Let’s all pray for his bowhunting soul! JeffB :) |
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I think the fact that Frank could shoot heavier arrows, and/or drop his bow weight and get the same speed, more KE, similar noise and recoil, and a similar if not easier draw just goes in one ear and out the other. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>....
...but it would be with a longer axle to axle length and heavier (mass weight) bow...right? I hear ya...and, as I said, all is not lost...I am considering it...:)... <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Or it could just be that his better half has been on his case about buying bows…this 180 degree “I’m sticking with what I got..I can't hear you! LA LA LA LA LA ” turn-around happened a few weeks after he got married…and that’s a most sad circumstance..I’ve walked in those shoes, and still do on occasion…the bows are getting fewer and farther between..but I’m able to sell a couple, and bring another one in thankfully.. Seems like Frank’s wife has LAID DOWN THE LAW! Let’s all pray for his bowhunting soul! <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Well, you got me there...she has laid down the law...but not so much about buying new bows, but rather because I have spending money on other interests...and since we just bought a house, a new car, and I have a "little Frank" on the way in May......<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Wait till you hear this one....she suggested Mathew Kyle for a name!! Blasphemy!! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> As I stated above, I will consider one of the Bowtechs...but until they can put together a "Havoctec-like" bow (doesn't have to be a TEC riser) but with a 20 fps faster IBO speed I am unswayed....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> - 320 IBO speed - 32-34 inch axle to axle length - 31 inch draw length available - 3.5 lb mass weight (bare bow) - 7 inch or more brace height - single cam Build one of them!! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> We also need to discuss that limb stopping draw stop and the dual track idler wheel comparison if you really want to get into this....<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> |
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