c903

What is meant? That straightness is not the most important factor; so if you can only have control over two of three primary factors (straight, spine, and weight) go with spine and weight and do not be concerned as to how straight the shaft is?

Just for kicks and giggles, let us ignore claimed specs at this time … you know….. the specs that some shooters base their choice on and pay their money for; I would like to hear the " Don' t be so concerned about straight shafts" crowd list their opinion as to how far out of tolerances an arrow can be and still be considered straight enough to use to shoot at live game with. Or are you suppose to pay your money for a product that advertises what you may not completely get, and then just dump the defective arrows or sell them on eBay?

JeffB

C903.

I covered exactly what I meant by the quoted statement in my posts. In great detail as matter of fact. In addition I answered the questions in your second paragraph quite clearly.

I cannot speak for the others obviously.

Straightarrow

Len, I was hoping to learn an easy way to measure the spine, or at least compare it between arrows in a batch. I' m guessing the arrow is suspended between two points, with a weight tied somewhere, and a deflection distance measured. I' d like a little detail on this. How is the defection measured accurately? What distance apart should the rests be, where the arrow is suspended from? How heavy a weight, or does it matter? It' s something I' ve never measured, and I' m very curious how my goldtip XT would do. They appear to be fairly consistant in weight and straightness, now I' m wondering about spine consistancy.

c903

Many of the changes (advancements) in the bowhunting sport and gear have inarguably been good. Many have been indisputably bad. Now it appears that additional downgrading that negatively impacts on the necessary skills, gear selection, and the sport itself, has been introduced and enforced by the manufacturers and dealers, and is being kept alive and well by the " Gucci" crowd and the Styrofoam aficionados.

These days, it seems that there is a common mentality with many bowhunters that you are expecting too much and will be assigned to the " ridiculous imbecile" division if you demand that when you pay for a product the product be exactly as is claimed and demand more than " close is good enough." In other words; if you do not go with the clique, just go away.

The uninformed (novice) and the gullible have allowed themselves to be spoon-fed the manufacturer and dealer hype. The infamous 3D influence has introduced and deeply imbedded aspects and thinking that are not overall practical for bowhunting or for the average shooter. Intermingled with the ever-growing hype and confusion is now the celebrity status and influence and the " Bowhunting-is-not-fun-and you-ain' t-no-bowhunter-unless-you-can-constantly-kill-a-big buck-and-you-gotta-have-a-particular-brand and model-to-get-the-job-done" bulls...t propaganda. Then last but not least, the new and gullible bowhunter is intimidated and influenced by the " in vogue" and " keep up with Jones' " rubbish.

Nowadays, the personal preferences and demands of the individual bowhunter whom still knows what is utmost necessary, what is practical, and what is reliable for the close contact sport of deer hunting; is now considered by the " Gucci" crowd and the " techno-partisans" to be a dinosaur and out of the loop. The bowhunters no longer dictate, the manufacturers and dealers do. Most bowhunters now just seemingly abide by the rules that the manufactures and dealers have constituted and enforce, and the lowly bowhunter pays good money to play the game and to be a member in good standing in the " in crowd."

I guess I am a " dinosaur" and a contemptuous and ridiculous imbecile that is outside the " circle," because I still dictate what I want and what I will receive when I hand over mymoney. I expect and demand to receive exactly what I believe I am suppose to receive in accordance with personal preference and what is claimed and advertised.

If I walk into a shop and pay for a dozen of shafts that are supposed to be -/+ .0015, I demand to receive 12 shafts that are within the .0015 tolerances. Why? Because that is what the manufacturer advertises, and I have decided that is what I want. The advertisement (claim) does not say that " Some of the shafts may be within -/+.0015 straightness tolerances, but that some might not be; and you will receive what the dealer (shop) decides you will receive." It appears many dealers (shops) have made and are enforcing that unwritten rule, and too many buyers are allowing the dealers/shops get away with it.

I personally do not give a damn about the " friggin" Indians be able accurately shoot willow branches, or that most other shooters may not be able to shoot well enough to discern a shaft that is or is not within specs, or that some 3D shooter, using 3D tech-talk to describe his setup and to flaunt his credentials about being a world-class shooter. All that bunk has nothing to do with the bottom line; and the bottom line is this:

I am not a world-class shooter 3D or Field shooter. However, I am a BOWHUNTER. I am a good HUNTING shot. Because I choose to do so, and for the consideration of the animal I am hunting, I plan on keeping it that way. Therefore, if I believe that keeping my gear and myself tweaked beyond the " just get by" level, that is what I choose to do. That means; if I choose a shaft based on advertised tolerances, I expect to get exactly what the manufacturer claims I will get.

If I walk into a shop and ask for a dozen of shafts and demand that all 12 arrows be within the advertised tolerances, I do not want to hear that the shop can' t or won' t take the necessary steps to make sure that I am not paying for flawed shafts. I do not want to hear that my being selective will leave the residual junk for the other person. I don’t want to hear that I am expecting to much for the price; because that is not what the manufacturer states. I don’t want hear that I do not need arrows that are exceptionally straight. In fact, I don' t want to hear any dealers excuses or whining. I simply want what the manufacturer claims I will get with the model I select for the average suggested retail price.

JOE PA

Well, I personally witnessed PABowntr (Frank) seriously pounding the X ring this morning with his mid-grade carbon arrows. Maybe we do get a little too wound up about all of this.

As far as the trilogy goes I am in need of more tuning than my bow or the arrows.

PABowhntr

In all honesty, it was 3 arrows and it was SL.

Jeff' s explanation earlier could explain it though. As he said, some mid grade arrows can potentially be classified as high grade depending on the batch.....and vice versa.

Arthur P

I' m pretty sure Frank wasn' t using fixed blade broadheads to blast them X' s.

Field points are one thing, fixed blade heads are quite another. To tell the truth, I' m thinking the rotten quality of -most- carbon arrows is why mechanicals are so popular. It' s not so much because people are too lazy to tune their bows, but they' ve got arrows that are difficult to impossible to tune with fixed blade heads.

From one dinosaur to another... Nice rant, C903.

PABowhntr

If you promise to pay for those cheap Bemans then I will gladly throw some Muzzys on them just for s and g.

Seriously though, good point. If I get a chance later today or tomorrow when I am down at the shop then I will throw some exposed blade broadheads on there and see what happens.