RE: speed vs ke
 

That weight includes a 175 grain field point? Wow! What's the FOC on that arrow - like 30%?

RE: speed vs ke
 

No the FOC is around 25% and boy do these arrows fly nice and really slam into the target:D

I am just gonna have to make sure I soap my arrows real well in case I have to pull them

RE: speed vs ke
 

Gee after reading all these replies I can't believe I've killed over 100 animals in 40 years. My arrows never weighed any where near 600 grains and my FOC has always been 12% to 16%, but then I always heard moderation in all things is better. You'd think this thread was about African Game. Preparing for Bad shots? My Uncle always said as your faith be so shall it be unto you. You Boys are ready!!;)

Dan

RE: speed vs ke
 

Gee Dan is that all:D

I shot more than that in one day when I was a Pro hunter:);)but I did cheat I was using a bang stick:D

RE: speed vs ke
 

I guess I fall in the boring "moderation" category. Going to extremes in either direction usually spells trouble for most bowhunters, myself included. Generally, once things get flying right, the experimentation stops.:D

RE: speed vs ke
 

Well you might have killed in the outback, but all I've ever seen you kill is TIME.:D. And you do that well..[8D][8D][8D]

RE: speed vs ke
 

Like yourself, I haven't killed that many animals either. That is why I rely on guys like Ashby who not only have many times that number of kills, but have recorded detailed data about the kills, studied it and scientifically analyzed it.

Several of us have been saying this for years and I don't expect any of the speed merchants will ever get it, but here it is again. Our recommendations are for the average hunter, not the non-typical guy who has put tons of time into archery, learning all there is, and never having a bad shot on an animal. Your experiences and abilities are not held by the average bowhunter. The average bowhunter, can't tune his bow, can't build a proper arrow, doesn't practice much, often makes bad judgements and even worse shots. If this typical hunter would put on a heavier arrow, with a higher FOC, his success rate would go up. The arrow would be more stable, more forgiving of poor form and more deadly when he hits the shoulder - as he will frequently.

Believe it or not, a guy with a lot of experience, like myself, also benefits greatly by these attributes. Only guys who are perfect, and world-class archers will find no benefit - unless they decide to hunt big game, somehow hit a bigger twig while shooting or an animal moves unexpectantly and they hit that heavy bone.

Speed sells. Manufacturers promote it, reps promote it, the whole industry is geared to chasing it. You see, if people are convinced it's the best way to get game, they will always buy the new product that gives a bit more of it. Chasing those numbers are very profitable for the industry and it is well engrained in the minds of many. Their marketing is very effective and difficult to overcome. A guy like Ashby comes out with the most profound studies in ever in bowhunting and they never make it to the main bowhunting magazines - ever wonder why?

RE: speed vs ke
 

Yeah and your Typical weekend warrior Bowhunter buys his arrows at Mart, Mart or a box store that has the special lightweight carbon arrows. Face it if you don't take time to set either a light or heavy arrow setup properly it will not perform as intended. I personally like my 350 to 400 grain arrow setups. I have shot heavy arrow setups in the past 40 years and saw nodistinct advantageI need.:DI get more than adequate penetration on all the animals I have shot, and really could care less how bad I wound the dirt on the other side. On the other hands if anyone wants to use sucker rods for arrows and hatchets for broadheads thats their choice. Dirt can be a real trophy and a Bad shot is still a bad shot.;)

Dan

RE: speed vs ke
 

Light arrow not tuned properly vs heavy arrow not tuned properly.... Neither will perform as intended, but which has the better chance of achieving adequate penetration to make a kill? The heavier arrow, of course. IMO, anything that gives the weekend warrior bowhunter a better chance of making a kill vs wounding and losing an animal, and decreasing bowhunting's overall wound/loss ratio, is a good thing. That is why I push the idea of establishing a minimum legal arrow weight of 400 grains. And I admit that is a solid 50 grains lighter than I'd like to see.

I was going to mention your product and my suspicion about your motives on pushing light arrow setups so hard, but I scanned the sponsors list and noticed you aren't on it.

RE: speed vs ke
 

Like I said, we're not referring to you. If the industry geared itself towards the heavier arrows with higher FOC, then the walmart arrows would be stiff enough to shoot a heavier head and the charts would show the spines for heavier heads and the stores wouldn't be stocked to the ceiling with 75 and 100 grain heads. The unprepared average bowhunter, wouldn't miss the mark by as much and their success rate would go up. Guys like you can try all you want to convince people that speed is better, and I will continue to put forth the argument that it is no advantage except to those who will not bother to know the distance, and even then, only on longer range shots - the ones they shouldn't even be taking. In every single other aspect of bowhunting, higher weight and very high FOC is a distinct advantage.