Matt.

I creeped tuned my Commander it only needed 1/2 a twist tothe topcable to get the samePOI.

Let off was not effected with such a small adjustment.
I will be heading to the shop tomorrow after work so I will shoot it some from the 3 positions front middle and back and let ya know.

The one thing I did not put in the original post tho is that I also tiller tune the bow before I do any other tuning I want the bow to draw level to start with and in most cases I never have to touch the tiller again.

Dave

Harder to do, but it can be done. You still have your windage, height, and dwell, but you probably do not have micro-adjustability. Spring-tension support definately makles the job easier also.

I figured it would be possible with the newer cams on the commander and guardian, I am most interested in what happens with the draw stop binary cams and if they can be creep tuned or not. If not, what happens to shots from the front, middle, and back of the valley?

And yes, I will adjust tiller to 0 on most bows for this, but after creep tuning may adjust tiller to get the holding characteristics I want. For example if a bow wants to float down, I will tighten the limb bolt on top until it floats and vice versa if it wants to float up. After doing this I test again to make sure it creep tunes well, I will also check my nock point to see if it is in the optimum position.

One last thing I have not done in the past that my coach is encouraging me to do is group tune once it is all said and done for nock height. I may try this next year when I am setting up my next 3D bow.

Well IMHO they should be cause the draw stop is only on 1 cam and if it is only a small adjustment to 1 cable everything should be ok, I will also see if Troy will let me pull one off the rack to play with[8D]


Yep then make the trip to Paris next yearfor the ASA Pro/Am and put some whoop ass on me

Oh thats right you shoot in a different division than me

You are right in your assesment that the cam 1/2 can be creep tuned and right as well about the wall and valley.


I have found that after timing to my sweet spot that creep tuning isn't doing much for me because I have found the timing that works for me is creeptuned almost perfectly.My top cam is about a 1/2 to 1 twist behind my bottom and my Hoyts have been right on.


I have not messed with the new Hoyts so I can not comment on them.My speculation is with the draw length specific cams, might make creep tuning have less importance.

Heh, if I make it to any ASA events next year I will be stepping directly up to shooting Open A.

Does this mean you will be in senior class? [8D][8D] Hahahaha!!

Here is a great detailed description of creep tuning from the bowman accuriser bow site.

http://www.bowmanbows.com/index.htm






HISTORY　
ACCU-RISER
NEW SYSTEM
LATEST MODEL
HOME1. Set the Timing as close as you can by eye with the limb tiller already set ( I like one eighth to three sixteenths of an inch shorter measurement to the string on the bottom limb but it is not critical).
2. Sight in at 20 yards.
3. Put a horizontal line on your target butt. (masking tape is good or use the top edge of a target face.)
4. Pull your bow into the "wall" (or stops) as hard as you can and shoot a couple of arrows at the line. Then "creep" forward to the front of the "valley" and shoot a couple of arrows. In all cases you only use your good shots so you may have to shoot more arrows to get some good ones.
5. If your bow is in perfect time all your good shots will hit the line , if not here is how to tune it. If the "creep" shot hits high, tighten or shorten the cable or cables that connects to the bottom cam.
If the "creep" shot hits low, tighten or shorten the cable or cables that connects to the top cam.
Those of you with the " Wedel Cam" and "Quadra Cables" can do this without a bow press by pulling one cable towards the limb enough to allow removal of the other one on the same axle to adjust. You must of course be sure all cables are mounted on the axles properly before pulling the bow but this allows "Creep Tuning" your bow very quickly at the practice range.
Make small adjustments and test to see that you are improving the tune and when you are done at 20 yards you can follow the same procedure at 40 yards to "Super Fine Tune" your bow.
When you have completed this procedure your bow will be Timed to perfection and if all your other accessories are adjusted properly , your bow will be as accurate and forgiving as possible.
I hope this will add to your scores and would like input as to your results .
Many thanks to George Ryals and others for their input in writing this method.




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Over the past 8-10 years I've shot more single cams than anything else. Since creep tuning didn't work for me, I started studying POI on different positions in the valley. There is a spot where a small amount of creeping will not have much affect. You can find this with experimentation. After I found this spot and at full draw, I had a friend put a drop of white-out on the string/cable spots Rick James wrote about. When those spots are lined up, I've got a repeated draw length.

This is not a cure-all. You still have to anchor in the same spot.

While I am not anywhere near a good enough shooter to contribute here, I will throw in my experiences to see if they are valid to others. Since a big form flaw of mine is how hard I pull into the "wall", I have seen a lot of issues in this area. I really noticed a difference in where shots were going with hard dual cams with a lot of letoff. With a Bowtech Pro 38 DC, I was getting high/low shots, and decided to creep tune according to what has been posted here. The bow ended up hitting the same horizontal line when the top cam was 1 twist tightened from the most solid stop. That bow shot fantastic like that, never should have sold it. The Pro 40 Wheely and the Patriot Dually were very sensitive to creeping, and I never got them the way I wanted them. Wasn't patient enough. I have always had good luck with CPS being pretty forgiving of creep, probably the reason I keep coming back to them. On various singles, I have not found a way to creep tune them, but Vaportrail's web site suggests that the same effect can be obtained by tiller tuning a single. Mike Cooper (JAVI) had an excellent article on creep tuning the Cam and a Half system that had been a sticky on Archery Talk for a while, and was also posted on Pearson's site. It is slightly different than the dual cam advice posted here already.

Thanks guys. This is just the kind of info I was fishing for.

I always thought it was just me, since so few other folks have said anything about it.... But that comment above has me wondering if I'm so singular after all. I have a very hard time maintaining good back tension and have a really bad tendency to creep with high let-off (75%+) bows. Thus my belated interest in learning about creep tuning.

Matt.

I went to the shop to do some shooting and only got about 5 shots in

had a guy come in looking for me to do some work on his old bow ( it needed a lot) I told him I could fix it up but the bow was not really worth spending the money on so he ended up buying a new Tomcat so I set it up for him and by the time I got it all set up it was closing time[:@].

I have to go and visit with Ken Stanislawski tomorrow after work so I will try and do the tests later in the week or on the week end.

Art.

What bow are you having trouble with and can the let off be adjusted down to 65%???