ORIGINAL: Arthur P

Hey, Passthru... Tell you what, my man. You get word to the masses and get them to a class and I'll darn sure educate them. I'd be happy to do it. Since I've got to do the teaching though, I'll be sure to teach them MY philosophy for choosing and setting up hunting equipment.

If you want YOURideas taught, then you better quit complaining and get to it.

Of course, most people are going to blow you off. Only a small percentage will actually want to attend your class, and those fewwill most definitely NOT be the ones who need it the worst. So, first you're going to have to come up with a regulationto forceALL bowhunters attend your training sessionso they can be educated. Oh! But wait! We can't have any more government regulations can we?? Oh dear... What are we to do now?

I'll just keep working on my 400 gn minimum idea,becauseI haven't seen anybetter or even workable ideas come up with this discussion. And anyway, I'd be willing to wager a LOT of money that most people would much rather have to use 400 gn arrowsinstead ofspending their freetime in seminars.

It'd be much better for them to get the education, but that simply won't fly without gov't regulation forcing them into it. And the kind of technicalclasswork you proposeis so far beyond what they can do in IBEP it's ridiculous. Tech-heads might love it but the average guy won't even understand it. You and a couple of others here need to dispose of the naivete and wake up to some reality here.

ORIGINAL: Straightarrow

Get bowhunters to go to all the classes you want, they'll still come out looking for the fastest, lightest arrow they can find. It appears to be human nature.

I've been "educating" guys at my local range for about 3 years on this. About 10 have "gone heavy". Unfortunately, they were already the most experienced, top hunters at the range. The guys who really need it, appear to be all but unreachable. In fact, this thread should be a good example at how people resist the idea. They look for every reason they can think of. "Ashby's bows didn't have wheels. Everyone knows that an arrow prefers wheels". About the only way a guy switches is to try it. Once he sees the vast improvement in penetration and stability, there's usually no contest.

And for those of you who think there's big difference in performance from a modern longbow and a compound, you probably have compared the two with a 650 grain arrow, lately. There are longbows that will get that arrow over 200 fps. Most compounds aren't going to do much better. Performance can be very similar. Most of the bows they use to shoot water buffalo are high performance bows, for sure.

As for Ashbey's work. As I stated in another post. I'd like to see the same test doen with a modern compound. You can not simply do a test with the lightest peice of equipment out there (Where arrow weight will give you the best results) and say that's how it is across the board. With a bow as slow as the one he was using arrow weight is the only deciding factor in penetration. Like any experiment. If you use only one pool it really isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

I'll go one step further in my modern comment. Use even a modern longbow that isn't 45 lbs. Use one tht's at least 65 lbs. However, even modern longbows have to be a higher poundage to acheive the same speeds. You have to compare equivalent equipment. not say. I'm shooting a 45 lb recurve so therefore it equated to your 65 lb compound with hatchet cams.

and you are forcing your thoughts on them. not letting them make an educated decision.