Not fast, OR quiet enough !! Little Test I did.
11-16-2002 | 05:30 AM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,532
Likes: 0
From: NW Ohio USA
RE: Not fast, OR quiet enough !! Little Test I did.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Gee I hope JeffB and PW12 can kiss and make up.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
It might time for a group hugg and a cold shower to cool off a little guys.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Aussie by birth Texan by choice
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
In case you didn't see it Ausie-guy it's not a group hug. We're "BowTech groupies" therefore it will have to be a groupie hug...FWIW, That statement (as well as some others)offends me big time...
I'm running short on time right now but I'm gonna add my 2 cents later...I've got a few questions and comments that have been eating at me for awhile...
Gee I hope JeffB and PW12 can kiss and make up.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
It might time for a group hugg and a cold shower to cool off a little guys.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Aussie by birth Texan by choice
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
In case you didn't see it Ausie-guy it's not a group hug. We're "BowTech groupies" therefore it will have to be a groupie hug...FWIW, That statement (as well as some others)offends me big time...
I'm running short on time right now but I'm gonna add my 2 cents later...I've got a few questions and comments that have been eating at me for awhile...
11-16-2002 | 05:30 AM
#22
Typical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 970
Likes: 0
From: .. NH USA
RE: Not fast, OR quiet enough !! Little Test I did.
Jeff-
After a good nights' sleep I'm sitting here reading back through these posts over a cup of coffee, and altho I did notice some "smiley faces" in the first post, (and know what they stand for) the undercurrent carried by your post was at least as discrediting and malicious as any post I have ever made on any product, whether intentional or not, I "caught the drift". I can safely say those issues are a "wash" if looking at it from that perspective.
I still believe that you have no right to say that I or any of my comments are "ignorant" or "BS",especially with my overall technical experience in this industry. If you want to debate something, fine, but don't try to degrade someone simply because you feel you have a case. I have no problem civilly discussing anything with anyone, but namecalling I gave up back in the 3rd grade. My posts may not be in line with everyones' opinions at all times; but they are far from "ignorant".
Everyone has their personal "faves" as you call it, and like you and everyone else of course I'm going to push what I feel is the best bow going. Like you, I come to these conclusions on what is best by feel, shootability, construction, attention to detail, and customer service. The only difference here is that I have been doing it for many years while in the business, and have a "trained eye" if you will for things that most average people will not pick up on. (I have to, it's my livlihood!) Most of the time I find that if a bow or other equipment that is "subpar" doesn't make the grade, it is due to lack of foresight in the R&D dept. Yes, I feel some things are "crap", but realistically I feel more things are designs that simply will not be around long. "Fads" and "trends" come and go like the wind, I've seen many go by the boards, and will see many more. My comments on solocams, dropaways, and other such items are simply items I look at from a technical standpoint that in my mind will not make it due to fallicies within the design. Solocams for instance are trancending towards a "hybrid" nature now, after only 10 years since "rebirth". I first called the "conventional solo" a "fad" way back in 1994. Wrong? I don't think so. I still feel it will disappear, marketing and advertising has just made it last a little longer.
I see you are still trying to discredit me by insinuating that the poster who went and checked out a Diamond and then stayed with his 6 year old bow decided to do so because the Diamonds are inferior along with my recommendations? Again, I have to disagree with you. Both the Diamond bows and my views on them are worth noting, altho a small company, Diamond makes a quality bow. Who's dicrediting now?
I have shot most of the newer Bowtech bows, and can readily order most any bow on the market for resale. I am currently on Merlins' factory staff and "push" them and that is no secret, but I sell many other brands as well, seeing as I own TWO archery businesses. Fill out a request form on the Pinwheel Products site for anything you'd like a quote on. (Mathews, Hoyt, Bowtech, and Parker do not allow internet sales however, sorry)
My comment on the "groupie" thing was based on when you have to have the co-owner and master Tech come out from behind the desk and straighten out comments made by their followers, (and say so!) then those posters may want to do a little more technical research or think twice before they just go in and post purely based on loyalty/ emotion.
And, we all learn everyday, from everyone. Again I must correct your statements. I learn something, some tidbit, from most everyone I meet or speak with-- yes, Jeff, even you! <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> I gave you a "tech" label because you are the one going around obviously thinking you are one and playing the part, writing out these long "bow reports" and answering everyones' questions on the Bowtechs. Now you state you are just doing it "for fun", "a guy who buys alot of bows, and fools around with equipment because he likes to", and if so, don't you think you could be passing on incorrect info if you are not connected to the industry and KNOW "what is what" with the bows you "test"? I never stated that you "know less", only that my respect for your posting skills has diminshed. If you don't want the title and responsibility that goes along with it, then don't bother with it, simple as that. (You do seem to like the limelight, however) You do not see Emery Loiselle or Norb Mullaney or Bill Winke or Lou Milanesi (sp?) or any other "tester-or-tech" calling anything or anyone "ignornant" or "BS". That is my point. If I choose to post about a product that I honestly feel is inferior, I will always give examples or technical research to back it up. I don't "generalize" unless warranted, and I do not call anyone or any manufacturer a derogatory name unless provoked to do so.
The bottom line here is that if you(or anyone else) wants to debate an issue within our sport, then please do it with civility and respect for others. I state my thoughts on products just as you and everyone else does, but unlike you this sport is my life and livlihood, and I think that due to that and the fact that I have been in the Archery industry for over 30 years now on a daily basis that I have a pretty good handle on things within it. Unfortunately I lately find myself butting heads with those who are into the sport for no more than a hobby or "for fun", thinking they can teach "grandpa tech" a thing or two. (the internet makes everyone an expert! All of us true "techs" have seen this progression develop for the past few years, and is why lots of them do not post anymore) Overall,this is not likely, even tho I may gain a tidbit here and there.
On my end I will try not to make any derogatory statements on any companies' equipment from now on to keep peace. They are all just great, solocams are heaven, split limbs are awesome, the combination of the two even better, dropaway rests are the best things since toast, and sub 6" brace height bows are VERY accurate. How's that for starters? <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Sheesh.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Pinwheel 12
Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 11/16/2002 06:54:35
After a good nights' sleep I'm sitting here reading back through these posts over a cup of coffee, and altho I did notice some "smiley faces" in the first post, (and know what they stand for) the undercurrent carried by your post was at least as discrediting and malicious as any post I have ever made on any product, whether intentional or not, I "caught the drift". I can safely say those issues are a "wash" if looking at it from that perspective.
I still believe that you have no right to say that I or any of my comments are "ignorant" or "BS",especially with my overall technical experience in this industry. If you want to debate something, fine, but don't try to degrade someone simply because you feel you have a case. I have no problem civilly discussing anything with anyone, but namecalling I gave up back in the 3rd grade. My posts may not be in line with everyones' opinions at all times; but they are far from "ignorant".
Everyone has their personal "faves" as you call it, and like you and everyone else of course I'm going to push what I feel is the best bow going. Like you, I come to these conclusions on what is best by feel, shootability, construction, attention to detail, and customer service. The only difference here is that I have been doing it for many years while in the business, and have a "trained eye" if you will for things that most average people will not pick up on. (I have to, it's my livlihood!) Most of the time I find that if a bow or other equipment that is "subpar" doesn't make the grade, it is due to lack of foresight in the R&D dept. Yes, I feel some things are "crap", but realistically I feel more things are designs that simply will not be around long. "Fads" and "trends" come and go like the wind, I've seen many go by the boards, and will see many more. My comments on solocams, dropaways, and other such items are simply items I look at from a technical standpoint that in my mind will not make it due to fallicies within the design. Solocams for instance are trancending towards a "hybrid" nature now, after only 10 years since "rebirth". I first called the "conventional solo" a "fad" way back in 1994. Wrong? I don't think so. I still feel it will disappear, marketing and advertising has just made it last a little longer.
I see you are still trying to discredit me by insinuating that the poster who went and checked out a Diamond and then stayed with his 6 year old bow decided to do so because the Diamonds are inferior along with my recommendations? Again, I have to disagree with you. Both the Diamond bows and my views on them are worth noting, altho a small company, Diamond makes a quality bow. Who's dicrediting now?
I have shot most of the newer Bowtech bows, and can readily order most any bow on the market for resale. I am currently on Merlins' factory staff and "push" them and that is no secret, but I sell many other brands as well, seeing as I own TWO archery businesses. Fill out a request form on the Pinwheel Products site for anything you'd like a quote on. (Mathews, Hoyt, Bowtech, and Parker do not allow internet sales however, sorry)
My comment on the "groupie" thing was based on when you have to have the co-owner and master Tech come out from behind the desk and straighten out comments made by their followers, (and say so!) then those posters may want to do a little more technical research or think twice before they just go in and post purely based on loyalty/ emotion.
And, we all learn everyday, from everyone. Again I must correct your statements. I learn something, some tidbit, from most everyone I meet or speak with-- yes, Jeff, even you! <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> I gave you a "tech" label because you are the one going around obviously thinking you are one and playing the part, writing out these long "bow reports" and answering everyones' questions on the Bowtechs. Now you state you are just doing it "for fun", "a guy who buys alot of bows, and fools around with equipment because he likes to", and if so, don't you think you could be passing on incorrect info if you are not connected to the industry and KNOW "what is what" with the bows you "test"? I never stated that you "know less", only that my respect for your posting skills has diminshed. If you don't want the title and responsibility that goes along with it, then don't bother with it, simple as that. (You do seem to like the limelight, however) You do not see Emery Loiselle or Norb Mullaney or Bill Winke or Lou Milanesi (sp?) or any other "tester-or-tech" calling anything or anyone "ignornant" or "BS". That is my point. If I choose to post about a product that I honestly feel is inferior, I will always give examples or technical research to back it up. I don't "generalize" unless warranted, and I do not call anyone or any manufacturer a derogatory name unless provoked to do so.
The bottom line here is that if you(or anyone else) wants to debate an issue within our sport, then please do it with civility and respect for others. I state my thoughts on products just as you and everyone else does, but unlike you this sport is my life and livlihood, and I think that due to that and the fact that I have been in the Archery industry for over 30 years now on a daily basis that I have a pretty good handle on things within it. Unfortunately I lately find myself butting heads with those who are into the sport for no more than a hobby or "for fun", thinking they can teach "grandpa tech" a thing or two. (the internet makes everyone an expert! All of us true "techs" have seen this progression develop for the past few years, and is why lots of them do not post anymore) Overall,this is not likely, even tho I may gain a tidbit here and there.
On my end I will try not to make any derogatory statements on any companies' equipment from now on to keep peace. They are all just great, solocams are heaven, split limbs are awesome, the combination of the two even better, dropaway rests are the best things since toast, and sub 6" brace height bows are VERY accurate. How's that for starters? <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Sheesh.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Pinwheel 12
Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 11/16/2002 06:54:35
11-16-2002 | 05:43 AM
#23
Typical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 970
Likes: 0
From: .. NH USA
RE: Not fast, OR quiet enough !! Little Test I did.
Bowtechshooter-
Pat, of course you are "Bowtech groupies". What else would you be? Merlin shooters are "groupies", Mathews shooters are "groupies", etc. So what's the beef with that? LOL. Boy, seems I'm not the only one getting a little "touchy"! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Pinwheel 12
One thing we must all remember---IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT BOW YOU SHOOT, WE ARE ALL ARCHERS FIRST, AND SHARE A LOVE FOR THE SPORT.
THAT is what matters. Pinwheel 12
Pat, of course you are "Bowtech groupies". What else would you be? Merlin shooters are "groupies", Mathews shooters are "groupies", etc. So what's the beef with that? LOL. Boy, seems I'm not the only one getting a little "touchy"! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Pinwheel 12
One thing we must all remember---IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT BOW YOU SHOOT, WE ARE ALL ARCHERS FIRST, AND SHARE A LOVE FOR THE SPORT.
THAT is what matters. Pinwheel 12
11-16-2002 | 08:16 AM
#24
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,497
Likes: 0
From: Dover, PA USA
RE: Not fast, OR quiet enough !! Little Test I did.
I think you guys understand why this one is getting locked.
Its become entirely too personal and I don't see it transforming into anything constructive.....<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>
If you wish to continue this "Debate" may I recommend e-mail.
Its become entirely too personal and I don't see it transforming into anything constructive.....<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>
If you wish to continue this "Debate" may I recommend e-mail.
