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A quick bow setup how-to...
This was a basic setup thread I put together a few years ago now... After seeing a lot of questions surrounding the subject and receiving too many e-mail and PM requests to count, I thought it may be helpful for future reference. Note I didn't call it the definitive post back then, nor do I especially these days. Some good points were made at the end which may hold validity about some of the tools used in this process, but the idea will get the legions of newer hunters started.
I'd suggest following this thread up with a thorough reading of TFOX's thread about "Don't Stop At Walkback..." God bless, and good hunting! Ialmost posted this in the gear review forum, but I'm not sure my intent is to really review any certain pieces of equipment as much as it is to merely pass along some tips and techniques I've used here recently to tune up my bows. My thoughts on this are twofold: First, there were a few recent threads around here (probably in the technical forum as much as the bowhunting forum) about tuning --as there always is and as there always will be. Rob/PA Bowyer had made a comment that he "wasn't into paper tuning that much anymore, but moreso using lasers and levels." His basic premise was/is that if you get things dead-on accurate with those devices, then the bow itself is tuned perfectly -- maybe not tuned to the shooter, but the bow is spot on. Secondly... besides ensuring that my own bows were dead-on, I thought I might be able to pass along some quick tips that may help some of our members here. A quick disclaimer here: I have never claimed to be a tuning guru, and I think those who've frequented this forum over the years know that I certainly have never made any claims as such. This is definitely not the definitive post on setting up a bow, but merely a helpful aid or guide with which I think someone can at least get started off in the right direction. So... with that out of the way... I eventually decided to pick up a couple goodies to play with some of this technology myself. A quick internet order on Cabela's, and I had what I needed to "laser and level tune" my bow myself. The foundation for all this of course starts with a quality bow vise, which obviously should be a staple in any archery room. I chose the Apple Bow Vise, which offers 360 degrees of manueverabilty. Cabela's sells them for $74.99. Next was choosing a laser tool. I had heard good things about Spot-Hogg's laser tool, but after looking at it on their site, I decided it would be too easy to introduce human error into the equation with it -- at least for me. I decided to go with Easy-Eye's Laser Eze-Center Guage, which retails for $89.99. You'll also have to pick up some batteries, which are not included -- at a cost of $5.99. The Eze-Center bolts solidly to the holes on your riser where your sight normally would attach. This virtually eliminates the ability for you to do anything wrongas far as introducing error while using the laser. Lastly, I chose the R.S. String Level Combo kit for my levels. These little devices are simply ingenious, and sell for $16.99. Here's a pic of the vise, bolted to my workbench in my archery room: ![]() My first step after securing the bow in the vise is to break out my levels. As I mentioned, I think these little things are simply awesome: ![]() I snap the one on the right onto the serving area of my bowstring, and the other is held in place by a simple spring action on the arrow, allowingme to ensure thatmy arrow is perfectly level and perpendicular tothe string. You can also use the bubble to adjust your nocking point up or down, as raising or lowering the nocking point will of course move the bubble in the sight a distance which is easily measured. The level which snaps on to your string allows you to mount the bow exactly straight up and down in the vise. This means your vise doesn't necessarily have to be affixed to a level surface itself; I believe Rob told me he had his bolted onto a log which was a part of a pile of firewood awaiting the building of his own archery room. Here's the Eze-Eye laser, as well as the levels affixed: ![]() In this pic, you'll see that this little gadget allows you to adjust the housing out until you can line up the laser exactly on the string. Then, you simply rotate the head downward and onto the arrow shaft -- rotating it further so that it follows the length of the shaft all the way to the tip. At least that's the goal. You'll instantly be able to see which way you need to adjust your rest to obtain centershot. ![]() You'll notice in the bottom two pictures there's no rest on that bow; that's because using the laser confirmed what I was seeing through paper tuning: I didn't have enough adjustment in my NAP Quicktune 3000 to obtain centershot. The rest is back at the archery shop I frequent and I'll be getting a new rest for the Tribute. I was able to dial in my Allegiance today though, using the above tools in about five minutes. Snapped on the levels, squared up my arrow perfectly, rotated the laser andadjusted center shot... I shot one three-arrow group to see where I needed to adjust my sights to. This is the next three-shot group, from 20 yards: ![]() I backed up to 30, and my next three arrows yielded this group: ![]() Obviously, I'll be doing some fine-tuning before taking to the woods... The point is, however, that I feel confident that anyone can make a small investment, and within five minutes using these tools and this technology, can at least be on the right path to feeling more confident in their setup. |
RE: A quick bow setup how-to...
Greg, go ahead and give yourself one of those little deer head things.
Awesome thread. |
RE: A quick bow setup how-to...
Greg, that there is some good TECHNICAL info......:D:D GEEZ THAT FELT GOOD!!!!!
![]() Seriously though....good post. |
RE: A quick bow setup how-to...
This is an awesome post man. I've always wondered about tuning bows myself. I'd like to have that equipment. Thanks for the info bro! ;)
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RE: A quick bow setup how-to...
I should also mention Greg, that you've caused me to decide to order all of the tools you mentioned.
I have $500 coming relatively soon from my dad and the sale of my grandmother's house that I had planned on spending on archery "stuff." I think I'll just go ahead and set up my own little shop for myself with the money. Anything else you think that are "essential" things that should be included in an archery room, let me know. I don't have a press, but I think I might wait a bit for that piece of equipment. |
RE: A quick bow setup how-to...
Dan, I would really recommend buying a Bowmender press from Walks With A Gimp; he's a forum member here on HNI. You can PM him or perhaps just do a search. He used to have a thread in the classifieds section, I think. He was selling them for around $75, and it's one of the best presses on the market. You'll see a pic of mine at the back edge of my workbench.
Here it is in operation: http://media.putfile.com/Bow-Press-How-To There's only two presses I would feel comfortable having any of my personal bows pressed in. One is a Sure-Loc Xpress (big bench press, and you don't even wanna know how much it costs... ;)) and the other is the Bowmender. Both presses probably place about the same amount of stress on the limbs as actually shooting the bow would... and NONE on the riser, period. The nice thing about the Bowmender is that it's extremely compact and portable and can be taken on distant hunts or 3D shoots. Most of the guys on Team BowTech have them, and I think Rob just picked one up as well. With it, you can install your own peep, insert string leeches when they occasionally wear out, and of course a number of other things. |
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Greg, I'm glad you mentioned that. I had thought I heard somewhere that WWAG had stopped producing them for sale, but I guess I heard wrong. Everyone I've talked tothat have used his press have had only good things to say about it.
I had planned on looking into a press from Apple, but at WWAG's price and your and others' reccomendations of it, I think I'll have to give him a PM when the money comes in. |
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Thank you for sharing that info. I am waiting on the Bowmender press I just ordered rom WWAG. I plan on doing more of my own work as I learn more about how to do it and posts like this one will really help. Now I can see I'll be explaining to my wife why I need more archery tools!
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Great post Greg! I'm thinking about getting that laser center shot tool as well!
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Awesome post! This is the sort of info that I like to read. I don't know just enough about fine tuning to screw me up. Things like this really help clear things up.
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I just wish you lived closer...i would pay to have my bow tuned that well!
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I use that set up too Greg. I have been tuning friends bows for several years. I enjoy doing it and then seeing their reaction when they shoot it. Great post.
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Great post Greg and deserved of the HRAOP so there ya go my friend. And thanks for the Props.
I love that little laser and level system. It's hard to argue against it. If one shoot through paper afterwards and has a bad tear it's either spine or torque of the bow. Either way, a solution needs to be resolved to get a good tear, either stop torquing or get matched arrows. Now it's not the final answer to tuning but I can't argue with results that Greg got there as well as myself after laser tuning many bows here at the house including tkycaller and Q2INWHITETAILS here on HNI. Q2IN even had me bring them along when I traveled out to his place to shoot a little pop indoor. He had a friend with a Switchback and was having problems. He claimed it was "paper tuned". I put the laser on and showed him how far left his arrow was out of tune, we brought the rest in, the rest up and I had to leave. A phone call the other day told me the guy was absolutely amazed how well his bow is shooting now. He thought I was a tuning God...NOT the case, it's simple with little investment that will make you very happy. I also recommend the Bowmender from WWAG, thanks Matt and Greg. They turned me on to it, I turned Greg on to these little tuning tools. We're all here to help each other. Today I picked up a spool of green/black 452X string making material...just like Gibblet, I'm going to have me a cool string as soon as I build it. ;) |
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Greg, I'm glad you mentioned that. I had thought I heard somewhere that WWAG had stopped producing them for sale, but I guess I heard wrong. |
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Good info!!
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I could not tell from the video but does the Bowmender press have protective bushings for the bow's limbs.
I think I may order one soon. Looks like a great product. |
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ORIGINAL: ducsauce I could not tell from the video but does the Bowmender press have protective bushings for the bow's limbs. I think I may order one soon. Looks like a great product. Yes, they have clear vinyl tubing over the bolts to protect the limbs. Iagree with Greg 100% on this. Though I haven't used every presson the market, I have used several different syles andI truly believe the Bowmenderâ„¢ is the best portable press out thereright now as well as the X-Press being the best bench mount press. When a bow ispressed in either of thesepresses thelimbs require less flexthan if they were being drawn to full draw. Greg, Greatjob!!! |
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Wow, what great advice. I just might have to invest in some of these items too. I like my local shop but it's out of my way at times especially if I'm out shooting and I thinks something is wrong.
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AWESOME post!!!!
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Thanks, Pat... nice to see ya on here again. Doing anything PBR-related in St. Louis this year?
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ORIGINAL: Greg / MO Thanks, Pat... nice to see ya on here again. Doing anything PBR-related in St. Louis this year? |
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This is a good thread bump...:)
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Thanks, Pat. You may like this one as well, as I put it in a forum which doesn't see as much traffic... http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1687790&mpage=1
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Thank's Greg I sure enjoyed your review .
nubo |
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A fine piece of info. I will be ordering my vise, and eze eye lazer this week. That should round out eveyting on my equip. list. I was undecided on a few items until I read this post. Thanks again Greg for tossing this one up here.
P.S. A restrainting order not necessary. LOL (It's a long story ya'll) |
RE: A quick bow setup how-to...
Greg, this is very good information! Thanks for posting.
One argument that I've heard against the lasers is that they assume that the outside surface of the riser is parallel to the travel of the string during a shot. Obviously this is not always the case. What real world experience have you had with this? Does it matter at all? Thanks, Allen |
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Heard the same thing myself. I actually had a laser on order and cancelled it after I began walk back tuning. I just eyeball it now or use a (tru-gauge?) and walkback to get center. I leave the range happy and confident my centershot is set.
I think it is more of a confidence thing than anything. Before I walkback tuned centershot I always felt my bow was off unless someone used a laser on it. |
RE: A quick bow setup how-to...
...they assume that the outside surface of the riser is parallel to the travel of the string during a shot. The riser itself serves as nothing more than a solid mounting point which remains static during the laser's operation. By adjusting the laser via the threaded rod out until the beam comes in contact with the string, you can then make sure that the laser head is pivoting "square" by running the beam itself up and down the length of your string. Once you're satisfied that the beam is contacting the string properly while pivoting it up and down its length, it's a simple matter to nock an arrow and pivot the laser head down the entire length of the shaft to ensure the laser beam follows along the top of it. If you get the laser out to the tip of the arrow shaft and the beam is still not sitting exactly in the center of the shaft, you'll know you need to adjust your rest's centershot in or out to accomodate. |
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The EZE eye lazer does work well on some bows... but doesn't work at all on others. It's not the end all be all that some people seem to think it is. I used to use it on a daily basis to set up bows... but you can do just as good of a job eyeballing the string, cams, arrow.
As far as the levels go... they work awesome.. I personally use the HTM string level ![]() And a very similar level.. that allows you to adjust for nocking height.. ![]() This setup works very well.. and is a little more precise than the ones that just clip on the string... But they are also a bit more expensive. |
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Allen, I think I understand what you're saying -- but, actually, whether the riser is parallel or not has little to do with how the laser actually operates. The riser itself serves as nothing more than a solid mounting point which remains static during the laser's operation. By adjusting the laser via the threaded rod out until the beam comes in contact with the string, you can then make sure that the laser head is pivoting "square" by running the beam itself up and down the length of your string. Once you're satisfied that the beam is contacting the string properly while pivoting it up and down its length, it's a simple matter to nock an arrow and pivot the laser head down the entire length of the shaft to ensure the laser beam follows along the top of it. If you get the laser out to the tip of the arrow shaft and the beam is still not sitting exactly in the center of the shaft, you'll know you need to adjust your rest's centershot in or out to accomodate. |
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This might be a really dumb question...but has anyone tried doing this with a Mathews bow? Gotten good results? After reading this thread...I went and bought the levels, but I wanted to hold off on the much more expensive lazer until I heard something.
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r33h.. I'd skip the laser... If you eyeball the string down the idler and the back side of the cam... and line the arrow up w/ that.. you'll be much better off than w/ the laser... and $80-100 still in your pocket.
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bump for lung blood
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Wow, great post. It really helped by giving me images to put to all tech I've read up about tuning and finding center shot, etc. Regardless of variations in the actual risers being parallel to the string path, I still think it's a worthwhile tool to have, and will have to pick on of these up. Great post...probably one of the most helpful and informative ones I've read.
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And right now them Lazers can't be found. Won't be any available till 2007 [:@]
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Thanks, Matt... I appreciate that, as does anyone I'm sure that goes to that much length to try to help someone out around here.
I had to chuckle at a story this month I read in one of my bowhunting mags I subscribe to (not sure if it was Petersen's Bowhunting, Bowhunter, or Bowhunting World). It listed all the tools a person needed to have in his collection for a home bow shop, and I'll be darned if just about every one of them wasn't mentioned in my post... Makes me wonder if the author stumbled across this and decided to put a review together for the magazine... [:-] |
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Great, more money to spend.:D
Good post Greg, I've been debating on getting those items myself. One question that always bugs me about rest setup. Do you setup your bows to have the arrow pass through the center of the rest bolt holes, or with the bottom of the arrow centered on the holes? I've alway setup my bows with the bottom of the arrow centered on the holes. But, the recent debate about trying to get the arrow centered to the bow, I've been thinking twice about it. |
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Terrific post Greg, I was browsing the forum looking for setup tips and stumbled uponthis thread. Great read!Had tojoin up too! Btw, I just bought an 06 Alegiance. One word, SWEET
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have the arrow pass through the center of the rest bolt holes |
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SORRY GUYS I am going have to shed some light on this subject.
The Lazer will only work if your riser is machined perfectly square with the path of the cams and most bows are not.It seems that the Bowtecs are ,atleast from some of the info I have gathered,they are.You say to run it up with the path of the string,what if the path of the string doesn't run vertical but rather at a slight angle as many do. The Spott hog lazer is a more accurate way to align centershot.You are able to put the lazer on the CAMS/CAM,where centershot is determined.You can also check from top to bottom cam to see if the string runs straight between them or there is cam lean that needs to be adjusted out. String levels are also not a very accurate way to checksome single cam bows because the string runs at an angle from top to bottom. The final equation is what is it doingAT FULL DRAW.When you add the stresswhen a bow is drawn,many will change.The most accurate adjustments need to be made at full draw.ESPECIALLY some of the short a-a bows. MY POINT BEING,don't relySOLELY on the gadgets.Sometimes they CAN BE GREAT but other times,they are a joke.They are a STARTING POINT for SOME BOWS. Greg/Mo this is notin anyway intended as a stab at you.It is clear that your sole intention is to help out other archers/hunters.Even you made the disclamer yourself that you are no expert.NEITHERAM I. I do,howeverhave a friend that tunes bows for WORLD RECORD holders in the sport of archery at distances of up to90 meters.The last bow I took to him of mine was tuned by me and when he checked it on his shooting machine,he told me it was almost perfect and I don't own a lazer but he uses the Spott-hog lazer at full draw.Not trying to bost but just giving some background,this guy has forgotten more than I will ever know. |
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