Straightarrow

I'm sure this applys to nice warm 15 degree days. How about when it's cold out?

I'll have to disagree with you on this one. Although form is important, people are different. Some have huge forearms. Others hunt in weather that is truely cold. Others simply don't have the best form. Yes, many beginners won't develop good form for years. So, should a beginner get a bow that is more forgiving, or should we tell them to get their act together and learn to shoot with a low brace height bow or quit hunting? Well, my opinion is to direct people to the appropriate equipment, and high brace height bows are very appropriate for many hunters, including most new bowhunters.

It is my belief that a lot more hunters miss because of the string hitting clothing, than most would estimate. I also believe that many have this happen without realizing it. In the heat of the moment, they don't even realize a slight touching of the sleave with the string, yet it affects the shot. The point is, people are different, hunting conditions are different, and high brace heights are more forgiving. We should realize this when recommending equipment.

Len in Maryland

As usual, things are twisted and turned around to construe something that isn't.

The question was " brace height, riser or ATA". It is my contention that BH is the last thing I'd consider in this 'list', and I stated form as a factor that demands such a design characteristic. The other two items, IMPO, carry more weight when setting someone up for a bow.

If you can have the other two design characteristics and get more BH in the same package, then go for it. I'd rather, however, fit someone with the proper ATA and a bow more forgiving in the form necessary for the skill level of the archer (ie: deflex vs. reflex). I've seen some higher BH bows with short ATA and extensive reflex. This would definitely not be a good bow for most archers; yet, they'll buy them because someone told them to go for BH first.

Sorry, we'll just have to disagree.

Cougar Mag

I am glad this was brought up. I see so many new hunters buying these short ATA bows(32" and less) with the longer brace heights simply because they are lighter, look like a mean weapon, and think they are the ultimate treestand bow. Then most weigh them down with heavy stabilizer systems because they cannot get the accuracy and realize greater than normal hand shock. I've shot compound bows for most of my life with 6 5/8" brace heights and shorter. Only one I hated was a PSE Baby G........I could not shoot it worth a hoot and didn't buy it. I also hated the extreme reflex riser design of it.

Len mentioned long draw length. I think many archers are shooting too long of a draw. I know I was and shortened mine, which did three things for me. It improved my form, less chance of torquing my bow AND less chance of hitting my string while wearing many layers in cold weather.

Straightarrow

Len, there was no twisting or anything else, simply a difference of opinion. It is my contention that a bow with too low of a brace height for a given archer, is to the point of useless in some situations. One with too short of an ATA is simply unforgiving, not useless. I can shoot a bow of any ATA or riser design, but I cannot shoot any brace height. It must be at least a minimum length or the bow is very unforgiving in some situations.

My own opinion is that all are important considerations. It's just that one is more critical than the others. I choose an ATA not on how forgiving it is, but on the angle created by the string at full draw. There is a particular angle that will allow all my anchors to hit perfectly. For me, this is created by an ATA of approximately 36", which is certainly not a long ATA. However, it is the one that works best for my anchors. This is far more important to consistancy, than simply choosing one because it's long. If I look for forgiveness in the design, I'll look harder at the amount of reflex in the design. To make sure the bow is usable in all situations I'm likely to be in, I look for a minimum brace height, which for me is 8". I have very good form, yet I find this neccessary in some hunting conditions I find myself in.

trestand

The one thing I've noticed with most people is that when they are looking at a new bow,what do they look for?-How fast it is,Whats the ATA,Whats the brace height,and the manufactor.But the big thing seems to always be speed.I know this from my own personal experiance.
This is where I'd have to agree with Len in Maryland on the reflex-deflex issue.Manufacters know that speed and 7 or better bh will sell bows.To do this,they increase the reflex,and in my own experiance, makes a bow very "touchy".This will also bring any issues with form to light.
After shooting,owning,a lot of high end bows over the years,I must say that this(reflex-deflex) has made apositive difference in my archery enjoyment...Bob

Pinwheel 12

To save aboatload of typing, simply go here--

http://www.merlin-bows.co.uk/articles/Reflex%20or%20Deflex.pdf


Lots of good reading.

walks with a gimp

The three deer that my wife and I shot this year,, if you add up the total yardage of the three shots it was 27 yards. Two shots at 10yards for me and one at 7 yards for the wife, from the ground. How many shots did we practice at 7 to 10 yards? NONE. WE did most all out shooting at 30 to 60 yards and farther. How much accuracy do we really need to design into a compound hunting bow in the form of ideal brace height, ATA length or reflex/deflex?
I'd like to see a bow with 7 1/2 inches or more of brace height, weigh 3 1/2 pounds or less before any accessories and an ATA length of 25 1/2 to 27 1/2 inches for ground blind or treestand hunting. I don't shoot with a peep and with a string loop, there wouldn't be a nock pinch problem.
Make this bow without fancy cutouts but close tolerances in the limb pockets would be necessary. Keep the cost down on excessive labor but use quality materials. A slender rubber grip and don't worry about stabilizer inserts or holes.
The longest shot I've ever made or attempted on deer in 32 years was 28 yards but the last 6 have been 15 yards or less bow kills. For hunting most don't need FITA accuracy out of their set up but target archery requires more consideration in bow design..

Arthur P

Merlin says a reflex riser bow with a high brace height will have the same characteristics as a deflex riser bow with the same brace height. Maybe MOSTLY the same characteristics, but not all the same.

Merlin says it's always been "assumed" the deflex riser is more forgiving? Sorry, Merlin, but that's not an assumption, it's a proven fact. The deflex riser is always much more resistant to torque and much more forgiving than a reflex riser bow. It doesn't matter what the brace height is. It's the forward position of the grip on the deflex riser bow with low mechanical advantage vs the rearward position of the grip on the reflex riser bow with it's high degree of mechanical advantage.

You can prove it to yourself, easily. Get a deflex riser bow and a reflex one. Draw each to anchor and then intentionally torque the handle. I'll tell you what you'll find out. You'll have to work much harder to torque the deflex riser, and you won't be able to torque it nearly as much as you can the reflex riser.

Disclaimer: Ifone isnot careful,he can twist the handle so far on the reflex riser bow that it's very possible to pop the string out of the cam tracks. Ifone shoulddo this test, hedoes soat his own risk. I amnot responsible for any accidental string pop offs.

Other than that one major error, blunder, faux pasor whatever you wanna call it,I can agree with the article.

gibblet

yeah, the wording of that part of the article was very poor. i got out of it that it said a reflex riser with a longer brace height can be as forgiving as a deflex with a shorter one, but they never said how much shorter. i may be entirely misunderstanding what it said, but felt the writing was very poor, and seemed outdated.

mainehunt

HHmmmmmmmmm........... Bigbuck and I had this same question, I thought that I had my own opinion, but now I am completely confused.

I think I'll just go shoot one at the pro-shop and if I can shoot it accurately, I'm going to buy it.

Kev