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RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
You people sometimes argue for the stupidest s@#%.
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RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
ORIGINAL: dynatec I personally don't care who likes a wb ,who uses a wb and who doesn,t.I'm just here to say the Zero effect is just that.Not connect by strings but a ridget arm, connected to cables which when drawn would break any ice build up.no moving parts just pevoit points.It seems to me none of you know anyone who shoots one,but it's only a matter of time before you all have one[8D] It's the one thing I know for sure will work on my bow...LOL. I have used it in the wet, heat, rain, cold, it never changes. I too like to have my bow on my lap with my hand on the handle when in a tree stand. It is much easier for me to justraisethe bowup and draw than to reach for it either on a hook or in a mount of some sort. No wasted or unwanted movement is needed because it's right there in my hand the whole time. I don't have to keep my finger on the arrow and if I draw and let down, I don't have to secure the arrow againor "reset" anything. |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
A flame war on a wisker biscut, how funny.
I just started shooting I had a prong rest, dropped 3 out of 5 arrows or more. Couldn't hit nothing. After doing some research, I went to local Pro shop, talk to him for about an hour about rests, never mentioned that I was dropping arrows. I saw the drop aways, and the WB. He could of bilked me for way more on a drop away, some were 130, the WB was 50 bucks. I told him I am strickly a hunter, don't do 3d tourneys or anything. He recommended that I go with the WB. Put it on and tuned it, it shoots great, I shoot 50+ arrows a day or every other day at the range. No problems yet with fletchings or anything. I may at some point do a drop away, because I would like to try helical fletches, but the WB is a good rest, pretty accurate from what I can tell and I like it. If it works for you then what others say should make no difference. |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
I would think its a lot more than 2fps, a simple nock is 2 fps, a peep sight is 3-5 fps. i would think it's more like 10fps slower. I shoot a strong helical with feathers, through mine and when crono'd, it looses 4-5 fps. With straight fletch, it is 1-2 fps on my set-up. It does vary with how the biscuit is set-up. For the best results, the hole for the arrow must be large enough and the biscuit must be perpendicular to the arrow. I've tested biscuits that I've modified many ways. I've trimmed the back, cut notches for the fletch to pass through and widened the arrow hole to various degrees. Interestingly, when I cut notches and trimmed the back the arrow speed averaged 1 fps faster than when using a two prong rest. Let me say that without doubt, when properly set up, speed loss in not an issue with the WB. I'm sure there are a few speed merchants who do anythng to eek out an extra foot per second, regardless of the effect on shooting accuracy, but for all practical purposes a couple fps has no effect on anything important in archery or hunting. |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
God I love my new Whisker Bisquit!!!!!!!!!!![:-]:D;)
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RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
This is great!!!!:D
WhenI replaced my prong rest with my WB and put it on my Nova S4, I had a hard time getting it tuned wiht the sights I was using. I adjusted sights and rest and still wasnt shooting very accurate. I changed my sights (Which i was going to do anyway), $50.00 Cobra Easy Slide single pin sight, still couldnt get the thing to shoot fer sh**. This was all done at a reprable pro shop, which is now closed down, not to poor business, Dave is one of the besttechs I know and ran a very repuable business,but because of a fire. After the fire, I began going to my local proshop. When I took my bow in for new servicings,I explained to Mike the issues I was having. He said hed check it over, and that he did!!! He put new servicings on the bow $30.00, put an Ultra Noc on per request $8.00, adjusted Peep $0.00, cleaned limb pockets, $3.00, put new leaches on (cant remember how much), placed two speed buttons on $2.00, new kisser button$.89When i went back the next day, he had me shoot a couple arrows. I have never shot as tight as a group and as accurate as that with any rest, sight, accessory, or bow in the 15 years I have been hunting. Mike knew what was causing the issue and he fixed it. I have no feather ware, no noise, and am dead on up to 35 yards. I proved thisfact to mybrother whomI got into bowhuntingby taking out a life saver at 25 yards with a field tip. he also shoots a WB as well as a couple other guys that hunt with us, we have been very successful using the WB, does that make us a bunch of Klutzs, no, we just know whats out there and try before we buy. I have never seen a more stable and accurate rest in my life, and I have triedI will say close to 30 different rests. The WB in MY OPINION (dont want to start another argument with Z and the other guy), is by far ONE of the best rests on the market today. OnceI had my bow tuned upproperly, its a one shot killing machine, and thats how it will stay. Now I suppose hes going to gang up on all us PSE shooters. Sure my bow didnt cost me $600-$1000 like some others, but you know what, I dont care, Its a great bow, accurate, light, adn fits me well. Sure its not a 300fps bow, but speed is nothing as long as your accurate, its the shot that counts. I suppose they are going to bash us who use Ultra Nocs as well. Be my guest! PSE Nova S4 67# 28 Inch -$300.00 Cobra Easy Slide - $50.00 WB rest- $40.00 Easton 2315 30 Inch -$120.00 A dozen Tru Fire glove style release - $45.00 Ultra Noc - $8.00 Total Cost: $560.00 Knowing the buck of a life time will come along and you know its going to go down with in 50 yards....Priceless. |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
ORIGINAL: TroopA You people sometimes argue for the stupidest s@#%. |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
ORIGINAL: Howler but it's only a matter of time before you all have one So, ya gotta admit that if there is a pivot point, there is movement!!!;) |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
The Whisker biscuit is an awsome rest especially if your a stand/climber hunter it's nice to get up in your climber screw in your bow holder, nock an arrow set it on your bow holder sit down and have it all at the ready, ready to go without having to worry about that arrow ever falling off that rest or making some kind of noise with an arrow thumping or jumping off a conventionalprong rest.
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RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
I will admit that it pivots like a door hinge, you ever ware one of those out? The only problem I'm having is when shooting the bag I'm smashing off my nocks.I'll also say the wb is the very best containment rest out there if thats what your concerned with. Sorry for the messup with the quote, I'll have to work on that:D
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RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
I haven't read every single post here but I will add my input as long as no one yells at me. I have seen the WB work well on many many bows, but it dosn't like my bow. I have had it in 3 pro shops and worked on it myself with not success. Its really hard on my fletching and won't paper tune to bullet holes. I shot a bow with aQAD ultra rest and loved it, that is what I will go with next year. I really like the WB because of no moving parts, really simple and the arrow containment but it just dosn't get along with my bow. So I will say bye bye next year.
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RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
ORIGINAL: Cannonball I haven't read every single post here but I will add my input as long as no one yells at me. I have seen the WB work well on many many bows, but it dosn't like my bow. I have had it in 3 pro shops and worked on it myself with not success. Its really hard on my fletching and won't paper tune to bullet holes. I shot a bow with a NAP ultra rest and loved it, that is what I will go with next year. I really like the WB because of no moving parts, really simple and the arrow containment but it just dosn't get along with my bow. So I will say bye bye next year. |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
Wow. What a thread. I can't keep up. Well, here's my confession.:D I shot a Bodoodle Pro and it is a fine rest. Thought about a drop away but went with a WB instead. At first I thought I had screwed up. Kept adjusting until I got it shooting right. Put a new string/cable on not too long ago and reset everything all over. Shot 3 robinhoods within a week. I does seem to make plastic vanes wavy, which isn't that big of a deal. With the 3 rb's I was down to 2 good arrows so I bought a dozen xx78's and fletched them with 4" helical feathers. The feathers are holding up incredibly well. I love my WB. I may someday try a drop away but right now I'm quite happy with the WB. I also remember reading somewhere somebody wrote something up trying to explain that, while normal fletching contact had adverse effects on arrow flight, the fletching contact through a WB was different as all vanes were contacted more evenly and thus acted as to straighten the arrow out. Maybe somebody saw this also. I don't remember exactly what it said but something along those lines. Moot point I suppose. I like mine.
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RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
ORIGINAL: Cannonball I haven't read every single post here but I will add my input as long as no one yells at me. I have seen the WB work well on many many bows, but it dosn't like my bow. I have had it in 3 pro shops and worked on it myself with not success. Its really hard on my fletching and won't paper tune to bullet holes. I shot a bow with a NAP ultra rest and loved it, that is what I will go with next year. I really like the WB because of no moving parts, really simple and the arrow containment but it just dosn't get along with my bow. So I will say bye bye next year. Aside from the old bows with the deflex riser and no cut out shelf , I've never come accross a compound bow itself that couldn't be tuned to shoot a WB. Nine times out of ten it'snot the bows fault , it's the arrow shooting through the biscuit. If your arrow is leaving your string like a wet noodle as it passes through your biscuit you'll always have fletching damage. If you want to give it an honest shot I'd suggest trying different arrow spines. I don't know a thing about your setup but I'd be willing to bet a heavier spined arrow will start showing results imediately ,on your fletchings and paper tuning. |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
had a wisker biscuit,,, didnt like it. Got a Nap dropaway now,,, love it.......other then that, im stayin out of this thread LOL :D
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RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
I shoot a Mathews feathermax @ 70 pound pull, 29 inch draw, ATA is correct, BH is correct, Idler lean is correct and shooting Gold Tip 55/75 carbon arrows. This bow will not shoot bullet holes with the WB. I may try Blazer vanes, but I should not have to.
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RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
I just can understand the reasoning behind this rest. One of the first thing I check when setting up my or a friends bow is rest interference. With this rest your inserting interference the entire length of the arrow. The helical of the fletching and the length of each fletching as it contacts the WB can not be consistent shot to shot. :eek:
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RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
ORIGINAL: Cannonball I shoot a Mathews feathermax @ 70 pound pull, 29 inch draw, ATA is correct, BH is correct, Idler lean is correct and shooting Gold Tip 55/75 carbon arrows. This bow will not shoot bullet holes with the WB. I may try Blazer vanes, but I should not have to. I've tried the 5575's out of my last 4 bows and they were too weak for all of them. I also shoot a 29" draw and I only set my bows up to 63lbs. My current bow is the Mathews Icon set at 63lbs. The Icon is considered slow , especially compared to the Feathermax , and my 5575's are still too weak. My arrows are cut at 29 1/4" , so if you have room to shorten your arrows and stiffen the spine I'd suggest trying that first. If you want to try new arrows I've found the Goldtip 7595's or the Beman ICS 340's to be much much better. And as for what you said about trying different vanes and "should not have to" , you are incorrect. A person definately has to try different arrow combinations in the tuning proccess. |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
The helical of the fletching and the length of each fletching as it contacts the WB can not be consistent shot to shot. :eek: |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
ORIGINAL: BOWFANATIC The helical of the fletching and the length of each fletching as it contacts the WB can not be consistent shot to shot. :eek: |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
No, a correctly spined arrow and correctly set-up bow should launch like a rocket, especially if the shooter is using a release aid, finger shooters will always have some flex! An arrow that is too weak in spine will leave like a wet noodle, hence bad contact with the rest during launch.
we made it boys, 100!!!! |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
I love the Bisquit and I need to say it will make vanes wavy but I still get real nice groups. I practice with broadheads since I hunt with them and slice my share of vanes but that's part of being accurate! It's a must to shoot with cock feather-vane up.;)
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RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
ORIGINAL: Howler No, a correctly spined arrow and correctly set-up bow should launch like a rocket, especially if the shooter is using a release aid, finger shooters will always have some flex! An arrow that is too weak in spine will leave like a wet noodle, hence bad contact with the rest during launch. we made it boys, 100!!!! Ehhh wrong ! copied and pasted. Arrow Spine: Why Does it Matter?  A properly spined arrow is simply safer, and flies better than an improperly spined arrow. To begin, if an arrow is too weak (underspined) for a particular bow, there is a risk that the arrow could break when shot. The more grossly underspined the arrow, the higher the risk of breakage. In a few rare instances, arrow failures have even resulted in serious injuries. If your arrow breaks upon release, there is a remote possibility that the remaining half of the arrow could be driven through your hand or arm. Ouch!!! To avoid the embarrassment of ever needing to explain to an emergency room doctor how you managed to shoot yourself with your own bow, we strongly suggest you NEVER shoot an arrow that's underspined for your bow.But aside from avoiding the freak accidents, choosing a proper arrow spine will give you the best possible arrow flight and result in dramatically improved accuracy. Most people think an arrow flies just like it looks when at rest - perfectly straight. Hence the phrase "straight as an arrow". But nothing could be further from the truth. Once fired from a bow, an arrow immediately begins flexing and oscillating. That's not a defect. Arrows are supposed to flex and bend some. In fact, with respect to accuracy, an overspined (too stiff) arrow actually flies just as badly as an underspined (too limber) arrow. So don't choose an overly stiff arrow either, tough guy. Choosing an over- or underspined arrow yields absolutely no benefit - regardless of what you hunt or how you shoot. Each arrow bends and flexes in a particular cycle as it leaves the bow (archer's paradox). In slow-motion video it becomes obvious - especially for finger shooters. An overspined arrow undercycles and leaves the bow with it's tail too close to the bow's riser usually resulting in serious fletching contact as it passes the arrow rest. An underspined arrow overcycles and the arrow's tail leaves the bow too far away from the riser with similar results the opposite way. Arrows fired with a mechanical release often cycle more vertically rather than horizontally, but the business of timing the cycle is still the same. When the spine is just perfect, the fletchings zip through the rest unimpeded and the arrow flies.....uh, well.......straight as an arrow. So we have to get the spine right. |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
I'll say the same thing i've been saying since working at Gander Mt. and seeing all the problems.... THEY'RE JUNK, THEY'LL ALWAYS BE JUNK.....you can't go wrong with a dropaway.
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RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
Let's see, I said
No, a correctly spined arrow and correctly set-up bow should launch like a rocket, When the spine is just perfect, the fletchings zip through the rest unimpeded and the arrow flies.....uh, well.......straight as an arrow. And I also said finger shooters will always have some flex! Each arrow bends and flexes in a particular cycle as it leaves the bow (archer's paradox). In slow-motion video it becomes obvious - especially for finger shooters. An arrow that is too weak in spine will leave like a wet noodle, hence bad contact with the rest during launch. To begin, if an arrow is too weak (underspined) for a particular bow, there is a risk that the arrow could break when shot. The more grossly underspined the arrow, the higher the risk of breakage. And, when you shoot an underspined arrow through a WB, there is going to be a lot of contact, no two ways about it. A lot of contact equals wavy vanes and poor arrow flight. So Z, please read my post. I think what I said was right on, and what you pasted just backed it up.;)Try again!! |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
I asked this
original: zrexpilot Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt a correctly spined arrow suppose to bend as it leaves the bow ? [align=right] [/align] ORIGINAL: Howler No, a correctly spined arrow and correctly set-up bow should launch like a rocket, and i pasted this. Once fired from a bow, an arrow immediately begins flexing and oscillating. That's not a defect. Arrows are supposed to flex and bend some. you also said not especially if you use a release ORIGINAL: Howler especially if the shooter is using a release aid, andI pasted this Arrows fired with a mechanical release often cycle more vertically rather than horizontally, so how were you not wrong? |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
I don't understand what arrow flexing (archer's paradox) has to do with fletching contact?An arrow flexing through a Whisker Biscuit is no different than an arrow flexing along a prong rest or a flipper or your knuckle for that matter. The rest is designed to allow that to happen just as a prong rest is.
Are you saying that unless you use a drop away rest you can't shoot straight? Even though the arrow is flexingthe fletchings still contact the biscuitevenly and thus will still produce an accurate shot. I alsodon't understand your need to try to provethe whisker Biscuit is a bad rest. I think all rests can and will produce good results if set up correctly. I choose the Whisker Biscuit because I can get good results (like any other rest) and yet still keep my arrow contained, so I am freeto position my bow any way I feel (more flexibility while hunting) and I'm not forced to keep my finger on the arrow or "reset" anything ifI draw and let down, or worry about that one chance it might come off while I drawetc...Bottom line is,it'sjust as good as any other type of rest. This has been proven over and over by members of the forum as well as competitive shooters. I find it kinda funny how most of you out there will bad mouth mechanical broadheads with the same old story: "Why take a chance on it not opening" or "A fixed head is better,less to go wrong" but when it comes to a rest you bad moutha simple, basic, reliable rest and put your trust in a dropaway rest with more moving parts than any mechanical broadhead hasEVER had.:eek: After getting mine set up correctly I have never had a problem with fletching wear or freezing or heat or anything. I have installed them on my other two bows with the same results. I will ask this question again since nobody bothered to answer it the first time........Did I get lucky and buy three Whisker Biscuits that don't damage fletchings or did I setthem up correctly and thus aregetting good results from them? Please answer. |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
ORIGINAL: zrexpilot ORIGINAL: BOWFANATIC The helical of the fletching and the length of each fletching as it contacts the WB can not be consistent shot to shot. :eek: I never said a correct spined arrow will shoot straight as an arrow (<pun intended) as it leaves the string. It wont leave the stringaseradically as an underspined arrow , ie wet noodle. The tail end (fletching end) of the arrow should stay straight as it launches through the rest if you have the correct spine. With the correct spine your fletchings will be going through the biscuit itselfthe same way (provided you follow a consistant nock procedure) every shot. The problem people see with wavy vanes , torn fletches , and black scuff marks on the vanes , doesn't come from the biscuit itself. The problem comes from the outer ring holding the biscuit together meaning the fletching end of the arrow is fishtailing as it goes through the biscuit. A stiffer spine will correct this problem. I'm not here to argue about the Whisker Biscuit , I'm really just trying to offer advice to those that want it. It can be a great rest , but you have to do your part also. And by that I don't mean modifications. I've never modified my WB in any way.It's no different than any other rest when it comes to selecting the proper spine arrow. In case I forgot to mention it earlier , the MZE is an awesome rest!:D |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
In my experience, shootingsmaller diameter carbons with helical fletching requires agood deal of care and experimentation to be sure the fletch avoids the black fibers. Once you acomplish that, therest performs as advertised. I recently switched to 2"Blazer vanes and my arrows fly as well with Montec BH upfront as with field points.
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RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
don't know what else to say Z, your little pasted article contradicts itself, now doesn't it. It says right at the bottom, that a perfectly spined arrow will fly like an arrow, but yet it also says that there will be ossilation, no matter what. All I can say is I have a video, a very very slow motion video, showing arrows being launched with under spined, over spined, and perfectly spined arrows, and when the perfectly spinned arrow is shot, there is nearly no percieved bend/osciallation in the arrow.
I can't help it if your pasted article can't get it straight, but as you can see above, it clearly agrees with everything I stated to start with. Get over it already, the WB is a great rest, for some!! It's obviously not for you, so let it die already!! |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
...perfectly spinned arrow is shot, there is nearly no percieved bend/osciallation in the arrow. An arrow flexing through a Whisker Biscuit is no different than an arrow flexing along a prong rest or a flipper or your knuckle for that matter. The rest is designed to allow that to happen just as a prong rest is. Even then, arrow flex is not taking several factors into account thatcan have an effect on how cleanly an arrow goes through the bisquit. Level nock travel, which we all know is practically non-existant despite what the advertising says; limbs recovering at different rates/times due toinadequate tiller adjustment, very common even on what many call 'perfectly tuned' bows; rotational torque, vertical torque, lateral torque caused by the shooter's grip and/or dropping the bow arm- even torque inherent in the bow's design - allcanforce the arrow into a launch attitude that is not square with the bisquit;nock fit on the string.. too loose or too tight, both will cause the arrow to oscillate either from the slop factor of being too loose or following the string oscillation because it's too tight to come off the string properly; string loop vs direct hookup to the string, is the release coming directly from behind and inline withthe arrow or from below it? All of which can be cured, or compensated for, except the level nock travel. If the bow ain't got it, it ain't got it. And most of 'em ain't got it.:eek: There. that should be enough fuel for you guys to make it to 200 posts.[8D] |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
Oh boy here we go again with Arthurs CRAP!!!! a man who has absolutely NO EXPERIENCE shooting the WB!!!
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RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
An arrow shot off a prong rest has unlimited freedom to flex upward. On a fipper, it has unlimited freedom to flexupward and outboard With a wb, it's freedom is only as much as the hole sizeand stiffness of the bristlesallows. Even then, arrow flex is not taking several factors into account thatcan have an effect on how cleanly an arrow goes through the bisquit. Level nock travel, which we all know is practically non-existant despite what the advertising says; limbs recovering at different rates/times due toinadequate tiller adjustment, very common even on what many call 'perfectly tuned' bows; Carefull Arthur, in your eagerness to stir the pot,your starting to sound likea very uninformed person. |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
Arthur....
No disrespect meant, I am just doing a "little stirring" of my own;) |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
I didn't think that last post of mine would be well recieved. Wasn't suprized at all. :D
boy here we go again with Arthurs CRAP!!!! a man who has absolutely NO EXPERIENCE shooting the WB!!! I agree but those factors are present in all bows with all types of rests with the exception of drop aways (and even they can be effected by some ofthose conditions)yet people still can get all those othertypes of rests to shoot good for them....huh? go figure. Carefull Arthur, in your eagerness to stir the pot,your starting to sound likea very uninformed person Even if the bow/arrow combinationis set up for a mechanically perfect launch, once a human puts his hand on the grip, all bets are off. Too bad we're not all perfect little robots, ain't it. It's not that I'm saying the wb is a BAD rest. I'm saying it certainly doesn't meet MY requirements for an arrow rest. Why? 1) Accuracy... Even though a world class shooter did pop a perfect indoor round with it, believe it or not, I am not a world class shooter. 2) I do a lot of small game hunting, and a wb - even the quick load version - is way too slow to load up for quick action followup shots. 3) When I'm hunting, I almost always shoot fingers - whether with stickbow or compound (another point where I veer off from the herd) and the wb is best used with a release, IMO. 4) I've helped several guys do an emergency repair, straightening the arm the bisquit mounts on, so they cancontinue participating in a 3D shoot. So, I question the durability and reliability of the thing. Doesn't seem to take much to bend that arm. 5) In some 45 years of hunting with bow and arrow, I've not had too much trouble keeping the arrow on my rest, so full containment doesn't even make my list of considerations for a rest. Frankly, I think havingsuch adevice that you know is going to keep your arrow from falling off your bow will do nothing but encourage you to be less careful with your movements.If you're sloppy with your movements, you're usually gonna get busted and not get a shot anyway. 6) Then, the one thing I've always disliked about the wb... I've always felt it's priced at least 3 times higher than what it should be. I ain't paying $35 for a 10 dollah rest. And that was for the CHEAP one! :eek: |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
Quite the contrary, mon frere. I'm pointing out that these problems exist to some extent with all bows, problemsthe wb superheroes (the guys dressed in colorful leotards and cape, with WBon their breast and calling everyone who disagrees with them "stupid, lazy,uninformed, full of crap, etc.")tend to ignore and avoid discussing. And these problemshave a greater or lesser effectwith different types of rests - the greatest effects on rests that don't allow the arrow to go into free flight at all. I dissagree with you when you say the biscuit does not allow the arrow to go into "free flight" I contend that NO rest can do that unless it's a drop away and yet here we are with people shooting many different types of rests and getting good results from them, Biscuit included. 1) Accuracy... Even though a world class shooter did pop a perfect indoor round with it, believe it or not, I am not a world class shooter. The rest of what you wrote is your opinion and you are entitled to it. As far as the arm on the biscuit bending I'm not sure what are you are talking about as there are a few diffetent models of biscuits. Only the original one has the small round mounting arm and believe it or not those are the ones I prefer. I can get more adjustment out of them than the other models. I have never seen nor heard of them bending. Mine have been through alot and I keep my bow in a soft case....never had a problem and I don't suspectI ever will. That's not to say it doesn't happen but I suspect every rest on the market can bend or break and you can't convince me that there is any drop away on the market that will take what a biscuit will and not bend, break or malfunction sooner. Can you please answer my question??? how is it I have three of these rests and none of them give meANY of the problems you have listed??????? just lucky? I better go out and buy a lottery ticket:eek::eek::eek::eek: Tisk Tisk Arthur...not even your French is helping you now. |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
Arthur,
Let me say that I very much heed and listen to your advice that you give on this board. I have learned alot from you. I just feel in this case you are letting your personal bias lead you. |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
mag-nok, they have a video in super slow of an arrow being shot. its amazing how much a correctly spined arrow flexes. then, of course, they show the arrow shot using a mag-nok. no flexing of the arrow. maybe the mag-nok and the WB are like peanut butter and chocolate.
and arthur, i don't think the WB superhero has one on their chest. i think you know where she keeps it. i'll say what i said last year during this debate, my wife has one and i like it, but when i use it too much it scratches up my shaft a little. |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
Anybody can go to the Bieter website and see that the bow and arrow both occilate as does the nock travel of the bow.
The original whisker biscuit with the full circle contained the arrow 360degrees and helped to tame some but not all of those occilations. I have never had a problem with the whisker biscuit bending or any part of the rest bending or failing in any way. I have experienced bent fingers and bent prongs on other designs of rest. Most bows will shoot a level arrow from the 90degree position on the bowstring if they are set at an even tiller, and that is what seems to work the best with the whisker biscuit in my experience. Proper spine is what proper spine does. A properly spined arrow will hit the same vertical line at all distances. Spine charts are often a bit softer than the real world needs and its not just when you use a biscuit, that goes for any rest. Most folks can get their bows to tune with a whisker biscuit and the correct spine arrow. Its not that complicated to do. I got no regrets from my biscuits! Good luck hunting! >>>------------> |
RE: Regret the Whisker Bisquit
Heres an unbiased summarry on the WB.
What I cant understand is how they would give it 4.5 stars. It causes fletching damage, it freezes, and you have aloss of 5 to 17 fps, it wears out very quickly, but at 11 bucks you can have new fibers. they did say it was accurate, but this was with a pro and I'm sure perfectly tuned. they also say it's a quiet rest, but fail to say how noisy it iswhen being shot, or what kind of vibration it creates. no way would I rate it 4.5 stars. But hey there unbiased right ? ya ..... If it gets 4.5 stars my drop away gets 10 out of a possible 5. Whisker Biscuit: Truth in Advertising! By Staff Writer Bob Peck Archers are a fiercely loyal and independent bunch. One quick look at any given subject in our ArcheryWorld.com forums shows that lots of debates and heated discussions are digitally waged on a daily basis. We accept this. The controversy comes with the product test turf. None of us on the ArcheryWorld.com test team wear white lab coats and carry physics degrees. The white lab coats stick out sitting in the tree stand and the physics degree isn't as valuable to us as our doctorates in the school of hard knocks! No pain, no gain right? To prove or disprove manufacturer claims we utilize quasi-scientific testing methods that attempt to simulate real world conditions and experiences. We always use chronographs and other instrumentation when it's appropriate. We try hard to get it right the first time around. Often though, we are left to a subjective collection of staff shooter opinions. We're not trying to dictate anything to anybody and we certainly aren't the last word on any given topic, or product! Our opinions on how well or poorly equipment performs are just that, opinions. Some products like bows are easier to evaluate and compare than other more subjective products like scents or boots. In the end analysis, we do what we do because a huge majority of our site visitors demanded we provide our input and cut through the hype. Still, no matter what we do or say there are those skeptics that read our reviews and scoff. These same people claim we are paid off to say what we say (we are not) and scream we are biased. Please. We are human. Humans are imperfect and make mistakes. We're no different but one thing is a given, here at ArcheryWorld.com, we take extra care to assemble the opinions and provide a balanced view of the products we test. Still, the arguments and flames continue. It' s part of the job and we gladly accept it because we all learn from the experience. Besides, we find that for every whiner there are three archers who thank us for our efforts.  This review of the Whisker Biscuit could easily be a short one. All you need to do is read the materials made available by the manufacturer, Carolina Archery Products, either on their website or their packaging material. There isn't a single word in their literature that we consider to be hype, misleading in any way, or marketing hooey. Without a single doubt in our minds, Carolina Archery Products is fully committed to "Truth in Advertising!" Not only are the pros and cons of their product presented, but the criticisms are headed off at the pass. Misinformation about the Whisker Biscuit is trounced with facts and perhaps most important, the message is clear; the product is not all things to all archers and doesn't pretend to be. Co-founder Ike Branthwaite is as straightforward as the available Whisker Biscuit printed material. Ike actually sought us out and within days of speaking to him, a box of six (6) Whisker Biscuits arrived just as he promised. Two (2) of each model, The Original ($34.99), The Drop Tine ($44.99) and The Deluxe ($62.95) arrived as did a can of "No Snow" ($8.99) which is used to prevent the Whiskers from freezing. More on No Snow later. Before we get too far into this product review let's get something straight from the beginning. The Whisker Biscuit is a hunting arrow rest. Can it be used for 3D or competitive shooting? Sure. No problem but realize the design is meant to go into the woods. Ethical bow hunters shake down their equipment months before the season starts and make certain their equipment is dialed in BEFORE the season starts. There are many archers though who pick up their bow few weeks before the season shoot a few hundred shots and are good to go. It' s not so much that this particular group is unethical as their idea of preparation is, how shall we say, streamlined? How you prepare for your archery season is your business and not something we need to debate. To each his or her own! One thing that is hard to debate is this philosophy; anytime you can incorporate equipment into your line up that removes variables is a good thing. Gore Tex, for example, removes the variable of wondering if you'll get wet. You won't. The Whisker Biscuit removes the variable of your arrow clinking off your arrow rest and spooking game. For some, including this author, it's a welcome variable gone for good! The Whisker Biscuit isn't the only rest on the market that successfully removes this variable. Golden Key and BoDoodle to name a few have their own designs. In short, there is simply no way your arrow is going to fall off when it's encircled 360 degrees with black fibers. The fibers are not nylon. The exact material is proprietary. We're told it is an advanced polymer selected for abrasion resistance, strength, and flexibility. Since this proprietary material doesn't have some catchy name and that was a mouthful, let's just say the fibers in the Whisker Biscuit are synthetic fibers. Imagine if you will that a small 2" inch circle of black synthetic fibers pointing inward with a hole in the middle for your arrow shaft. This circle of synthetic fibers is held together around it's perimeter with a metal hoop that securely crimps down on the outside edges of the fibers. The arrow enters the center of this hoop from behind and rests lightly on the bottom half of the hole in the center of the fiber halo. There are 3 different Whisker Biscuit inserts to accommodate a variety of shafts, aluminum, insert carbon, and outsert carbon. The outsert carbon can be used for small diameter children's arrows or the smaller ACC arrows. There is also a fishing biscuit with a different type of stiffer fibers, only used with heavy, unfletched, bowfishing arrows. The only difference that we could see is the diameter of the arrow hole in the center of the insert. The thickness and the density of synthetic fibers that make up the "Biscuit" appear to be identical. The really cool thing for those of you who shoot different types of arrows is interchanging the biscuits with zero rest adjustments! The biscuit and its bracket have a 2" diameter milled slot that automatically centers the biscuit and allows you to replace the biscuit without having to re-tune. Remove one biscuit, replace it with another and poof! It just works! A beautiful thing! The Biscuit locks into a receiver block which is identical for the "Original" and the "Drop Tine" model Whisker Biscuit. The difference between these two models is the extension arm that attaches to bow riser-mounting bracket. The Original is round extension arm and the Drop Tine is square. The Original is O.K but for the few extra bucks you'll appreciate the peace of mind of the square extension arm. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that square will not twist, round can twist off position. The "Deluxe" has a different and better-oriented biscuit receiver and has very convenient laser etched micro adjustment markings to help fine-tune the vertical gang adjustment. The chamfered square extension arm of the Deluxe nests securely into the riser mounting bracket which also uses laser etched micro markings to get your lateral adjustment just right. All models utilize the same small set screws to securely lock down the Biscuit. The real difference between the three Whisker Biscuit models is in how the Biscuit receiver places the Biscuit in the sighting window, how the extension arm (square or round) prevents twisting and how the extension arm attaches to your riser. In our minds how these three variables are integrated into each model is distinct in design and function. The "Original" model is exactly that. The price point $34.99 allows you to have the fundamental of the Whisker Biscuit arrow holding design without the price tag of the other two models or the adjustability. We think that that it's worth the extra money to either go with the Drop Tine or Deluxe model. Clearly, at least from consumers prospective, this is the typical base price/feature trade off. However, if you own an older bow with shallow riser cutouts and need more centershot adjustment, the Original is a good choice when your choices for updating your equipment are limited. The round extension arm and very basic (aka not precise) adjustments makes the "Original" a reasonable product for most bows. We found that extension arm just kind of hangs out there in space and does not provide that "lock down, no can move" confidence most of us want when it comes to our arrow rests. The other major difference in the "Original" is the way in which the horizontal left/right rest adjustment works. It is basically a round shaped rod that clamps down with set screws. You'll need to keep an eye on this. After about 100 shots we found the force of the arrows and fletching passing through the "Biscuit" tended to slightly push the whole assembly forward in the direction of arrow travel, which, of course, changed the arrow level adjustment and subsequent shots. When we removed the Biscuit receiver block from the round extension shaft, twist marks were clearly visible on the extension shaft. Brass washers have since been added to the pinch bolts on all models to increase the holding force. The "Original" is only available in anodized black. We found the fit and finish of this model to be exemplary and without flaws. The "Drop Tine" sits in the middle of the product line and as you would expect is priced in between the "Original" and the "Deluxe" at $44.99. There is no fancy name brand camo available, which only adds cost, but we found the pattern used to be more than acceptable. There is precious little surface area exposed to the wary eyes of the white tail in this relatively compact rest design anyway. The horizontal receiver arm is a square shaft that eliminates the possibility of the forward twisting we found in the "Original". Four hundred shots and a micrometer showed the rest didn't move a micron! We all felt the Drop Tine was easier to deal with and instilled more confidence than the straight-arm design of the Original. Call it a psychological thing, but dropping the mounting arm down and towards the archer's eye seemed a more ergonomic design as it tucked the whole rest into a more comfortable position. If you must have camo you must buy the "Drop Tine". For some weird and unexplained reason the "Drop Tine" is the only Whisker Biscuit available in camo. The "Original" and the "Deluxe" only come in anodized black. The "Deluxe" is the way to go! Employing the same basic design as the "Drop Tine" this version of the Whisker Biscuit adds independent elevation adjustment, laser etched match marks, a two point anchoring system and cleaner lines. A while back in this review we said contemplating which model to go with is the classic "base price versus feature" trade off. Your wallet may need to be the determining factor but if it isn't, go past the "Original" and the "Drop Tine" and go straight for the "Deluxe". Is it worth the extra bucks? In our opinion the answer is an unequivocal yes! There is more fletching clearance with the "Deluxe" and it incorporates a unique mounting system that appears to be designed to fit most bows. The Biscuit receiver block is a sleeker design and the square chamfered extension shaft serves to adequately prevent twisting. Again, the "Deluxe" is only available in anodized black and no camo patterns are available. For our test we used a Parker Ultra-Lite 31, a PSE Nova, and a Buckmasters G-2 XL. All three bows were set and tuned to AMO standards. Because Ike and his crew at Carolina Archery Products sent us two of each Whisker Biscuit model and included the carbon insert "Biscuit", we were able to interchange parts and rests on all our test bows quite easily. Each bow had a minimum of 300 arrows shot through them and in some instances 500 arrows. Each rest found a home on each of our three test bows. We used a professionally calibrated "Speed Tach" chronograph to measure arrow speed differentials and a Hooter Shooter to eliminate the human variable. We used Easton ACC's, Easton XX75 2513 tree trunks and Carbon Xpress carbons. Fletching ranged from feathers to Duravanes to stock Easton urethane vanes. Finally, all three (3) rests made it out into the field for several whitetail hunts in conditions that ranged from driving rain to snow to 40 degree autumn days. Fletching Damage Are you going to experience fletching damage after you've launched 300+ arrows through a Whisker Biscuit? Yes! But that will entirely depend on what kind of vanes you prefer. Vanes with rubber in them are easy to fletch since they accept the cyanoacrylic "crazy glues". They will snap back up when bent over but they will become wavy and eventually tear because they can stretch beyond the elastic range. You can tear them in half with your hands. The most wear resistant vanes recommended by Carolina Archery Products are Bohning and Flex-Fletch brands. These are urethane and they do not stretch or wrinkle. They last a real long time and you can't tear them apart. If you roll one over on a fletched arrow, they slowly bend back straight. They require more arrow and vane prep to get proper adhesion. Here's where truth in advertising comes in handy. In the Whisker Biscuit Technical Product Guide, Carolina Archery Products says: "Vanes will show wear after substantial use. Some brands more than others. Urethane vanes seem to be the most durable. After 30-50 shots a scalloped wear pattern will appear on the outer 1/8 inch of the die cut edge of feather fletching. This does not affect arrow flight. Nor does it progress beyond the initial wear in period." Our exact findings! However, some notable exceptions should be mentioned. Prefabricated Easton arrows and vanes did get progressively worse as we approached the 300 shot mark. The scalloped edges got pretty wavy by the end of the test period. Some will argue the appearance of the fletching affects arrow flight. We concede there are probably subtle aerodynamic effects introduced when fletching is wavy versus perfectly straight, but, honestly, our findings suggest, out to 40 yards that this is not so. Here's an important point: We ruined more fletching from arrows colliding with each other and tearing the fletching than we did using the Whisker Biscuit. The fletching damage is way overblown by competitors. Are vanes affected by the product? Sure. How could they not be? You are launching arrows through a device just big enough for the shaft. The synthetic fibers bristles are just flexible enough to let the vanes pass through but stiff enough to support the weight of the arrow and broadhead. We found the break-in period of the Biscuit to be important to a more consistent shot. The synthetic fibers bristles of the biscuit seem to have a memory in the beginning of the break-in period. They bounce back into their original position more quickly when the product is brand new out of the box. After the 100 shot mark the bristles began to take on a visible set or a loss of memory. Think about the fibers in the bristle broom you use to sweep the floor. After a while the bristles are curved. Same thing happens with the Whisker Biscuit. Not to sound like a broken record but CAP (Carolina Archery Products) understands this and points this out in their literature. What's the worst-case scenario? The bristle wear bothers you and for $10.99 you buy another "Biscuit" insert. Whoop dee do! Once again, we found very little difference in arrow flight or accuracy out to 40 yards as this bristle wear set in. The key with the biscuit is making sure there is sufficient shaft to biscuit clearance. You want it more loose than tight. When we shot the 2315 tree trunks, shaft clearance became a problem. CAP anticipates the problem and has rest tuning instructions we followed. Problem solved. There is a misconception that the hole through the Whisker Biscuit touches the entire surface of the arrow shaft all the way around. Not true. At best, a properly tuned Whisker Biscuit actually only touches the bottom half of the arrow. You can and should see some daylight through the Biscuit opening on the top half of the arrow. The reason this is important to mention relates directly to that weird angle tree stand shot where your bow is twisting at an odd angle. Proper form goes out the window in order to get the shot off. The arrow shaft actually, ever so gently, rolls against the inside of the Biscuit hole and generally orients the arrow into the same relative pre-shot position. With a standard prong style rest you either don't take the shot or you use your index finger to stabilize the arrow. Again, consider the fact this is a hunting rest. Consider how much preparation you do to prepare for your season and put things in perspective. The average archer will most likely never experience any of the observations we discovered unless you are specifically looking for them. The aggressive archer who spends months preparing and shoots hundreds of arrows has solutions available before he even gets started. Noise If there is sufficient shaft clearance, meaning you can see daylight at the top of the Biscuit hole, there is no noise. We really mean no noise! The only caveat that is true with all rests and all arrow shafts is that noise characteristics vary widely from shaft to shaft depending on coloration and composition. Large diameter aluminum camo shafts are the worst because the surface is very sensitive to dust and abrasion. Pull any shaft out of a target a few times and the problem gets better as the shaft surface abrades and gets worn smoother. Carbon shafts with a smooth semi-gloss finish are the quietest, but we all know even carbon shafts can be noisy depending on the carbon porosity. Adjusting the Biscuit to various shaft diameters is a 30 second adjustment. The Biscuit ring has a break designed into it. Remove the Biscuit from the receiver bracket, gently pull the Biscuit apart at this separation in the ring and you're in business. Once again, the competition wants you to believe the Whisker Biscuit is a noisy rest. Sorry, not so! Freezing Biscuits And no we don't mean the part of your body sitting on the tree stand seat! We submerged the Biscuits in water, shook off the excess water and stuck them in a freezer for about 3 hours and then pulled them out. Not exactly scientific but certainly representative of the worst nature might throw at you. The Biscuit was frozen nearly solid. It's important to remember that since the bristles in the Biscuit are synthetic fibers they don't absorb water like nylon can. All we did to break the ice-free was gently push on the whiskers and out came all the ice. Let's face it; common sense plays a large part in the hunting experience. If you experienced an ice storm or freezing rain would you pay attention to the arrow shaft being coated in ice? If you didn't check your peep before a shot or worse your arrow shafts were coated with ice, you'd be in just as much in trouble as making sure your rest (whatever you use) was also unobstructed. If you are worried about the Biscuit's performance in such late season conditions buy a can of "No Snow". According to the Material Safety Data Sheet provided by CAP, "No Snow" is an aerosol concoction of Heptane, Isobutane, Propane, Isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) and mineral spirits. Does it work? Hell yeah! We repeated the same "soak the Biscuit in water" experiment. This time we liberally doused the Biscuit with "No Snow" prior to the deep freeze. After three hours there was surface frost on the eternal edges of the biscuit fibers but no ice. We pressed the biscuit fibers and a dusting of frost came out. "No Snow", by the way, is a great product for those of you who shoot feathers. Whatever you do don't soak the feathers in this spray but rather just lightly coat them. You'll find that in severe conditions of soaking rain and snow your feathers will tolerate the weather better. Speed Unless you're utilizing a drop away rest, whether you realize it or not, you're losing speed at the arrow rest. It's that simple. Some rests cost you more in speed than others but anytime the arrow comes in contact with a pre-launch surface the physics of friction and drag take over. In the case of the Whisker Biscuit you lose more speed because not only is the arrow shaft coming in contact with a pre-launch surface, but the vanes at the tail end of the projectile are being restricted momentarily as they pass through the rest. It's all about the vane length, amount of helical twist, and vane composition when it comes to exactly how much speed you'll lose. We used a BoDoodle TimberDoodle as our benchmark prong style rest. 3" urethane vanes lost a negligible 1-2 feet per second regardless of the bow. Four-inch vanes or feathers with a standard 1 to 2 degree helical lost about the same. We compared this benchmark with the Deluxe Whisker Biscuit. Our findings were precisely consistent with the CAP literature. Five inch fletching cost us 5 to 7 feet per second. Up the helical to 6 degrees and this is not the product for you! We lost a whopping 12 to 17 feet per second! It's only when you start lengthening the fletching to 5" that you really start to see an appreciable drop in arrow speed. This makes sense if you think about it, because the more of the fletching surface to come in contact with a drag-inducing surface, like the bristles of the Biscuit, the more likely you are to lose speed. Once again, truth in advertising becomes important. No one at CAP or ArcheryWorld.com pretends you won't lose speed. You will! If speed is a big factor in your style of shooting you'll need to be aware of the limitations of this design when compared to the arrow set up you shoot. The Whisker Biscuit is not a product for everyone, but then again, nothing in the archery industry is! Accuracy With a Hooter Shooter as our guide, we tested all three rests at 20, 30 and 40 yards in our indoor test facility. With the exception of the "Original" which crept out of alignment after 100 shots, the "Drop Tine" and the "Deluxe" delivered bullet hole performance. We were shooting into the same holes from 40 yards, no problem. We found the competition claims that vane contact with the Biscuit affects flight to be bogus. Removing the human variable by using the Hooter Shooter disproved this claim. Summary When all things were considered we gave the Whisker Biscuit a 4.5 stars out of a possible 5 for a number of reasons. The company that manufactures the product is as honest as the day is long. That's got to count for something in this rough and tumble cut throat industry. The Whisker Biscuit is notably not a product that is all things to all archers. The product's perceived shortcomings are addressed openly, honestly, and factually by the manufacturer, Carolina Archery Products. If you want a no nonsense hunting rest that won't fail you at that moment of truth and removes an important anxiety inducing factor, then this is a product we feel confident won't let you down. If you are a speed freak versus an accuracy freak you'll need to pay attention to your arrow set up before you consider buying this rest. There are no commercially available camo patterns available for any of the CAP product line. We're not big matching camo fanatics but for some this is a big deal. The "Original" is lacking in adjustment and we felt barely worthy of your consideration except the price does allow you to experience the Whisker Biscuit design. Solutions and options to these concerns would have meant a perfect 5. When you balance all this against versatility, cost, function and the fact you can use the same rest to shoot your carbons or aluminum arrows we feel this is a solid product! |
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