3D Speed limits?
06-12-2008, 09:00 PM
#11
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northeast Tennessee
Posts: 5,673
RE: 3D Speed limits?
Speed doesn't make you shoot any better. It just covers your yardage mistakes. 346fps really too quick and makes yardage judging less critical. In fact, slow bows are a lot easier to be accurate with. Look at what serious dot shooters are using. Some of their setups are below 200fps. It's that way for a reason.
You need to get out and shoot as many 3D courses as you can.
I can tell you this much, you will see a TON of people who dress, act, and talk like they can shoot at ASA's but you will soon figure out, who can and can't shoot. I think it's quiet comical actually. I would post a picture of a guy that actually made me LAUGH when I saw him and then saw him shoot but I would hate it if he saw it
You will also see people who shoot VERY well on the known yardage part. Which usually isn't me. I just don't make as strong of shots when I know the yardage. I shot a 206, 6 up on the known, and then 10up on the unknown, go figure.[8D]
EDIT: Also, don't get caught up in 14 rings. They don't help that much.
You need to get out and shoot as many 3D courses as you can.
I can tell you this much, you will see a TON of people who dress, act, and talk like they can shoot at ASA's but you will soon figure out, who can and can't shoot. I think it's quiet comical actually. I would post a picture of a guy that actually made me LAUGH when I saw him and then saw him shoot but I would hate it if he saw it
You will also see people who shoot VERY well on the known yardage part. Which usually isn't me. I just don't make as strong of shots when I know the yardage. I shot a 206, 6 up on the known, and then 10up on the unknown, go figure.[8D]
EDIT: Also, don't get caught up in 14 rings. They don't help that much.
06-13-2008, 11:21 AM
#12
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 807
RE: 3D Speed limits?
ORIGINAL: FlAllyGuy
Just a question but how long have you been shooting?
Just a question but how long have you been shooting?
06-13-2008, 06:50 PM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: 3D Speed limits?
ORIGINAL: FlAllyGuy
I am alot better shooter than my score showed but had I been shooting 300fps or over, being off by 5 yards like I typically was would not have made that much of a difference.
I am alot better shooter than my score showed but had I been shooting 300fps or over, being off by 5 yards like I typically was would not have made that much of a difference.
You would be surprised how far you are off even at 300 fps on a 5 yard misjudged target,BOTH the 280 and 300 will probably only yield a 1" difference on impact from 1 to the other on a 5 yard misjudged range.BUT both will be way off the mark.
I shot 260 fps1 year for ASA and on a 3 yard mis, I only shot a 1/2" lower than I would at 280 fps.
06-13-2008, 10:02 PM
#15
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: 3D Speed limits?
40 yards 
When shooting in the longer yardage classes,you HAVE TO judge yardage,regardless of what speed you shoot if you want to win.
I didn't actually start winning untill after I quit going to the national ASA shoots but I started winning in ASA equivalent courses against some of the same guys I was losing to nationaly.
(I did win plenty in the pro ams and I usually shot better in them,actually pretty darn good at times)
When shooting in the longer yardage classes,you HAVE TO judge yardage,regardless of what speed you shoot if you want to win.
I didn't actually start winning untill after I quit going to the national ASA shoots but I started winning in ASA equivalent courses against some of the same guys I was losing to nationaly.
(I did win plenty in the pro ams and I usually shot better in them,actually pretty darn good at times)
06-13-2008, 10:20 PM
#16
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: 3D Speed limits?
I just ran some numbers through my Archers Advantage program and my hunting bow can hit the 12 ring at 40 yards from 39.1 to 40.8 yards.I increased the speed by 20 fps and I can hit the same 12 ring at 40 from 39 to 40.9 yards.
This is how it really works,the key to winning is being able to execute great shots time after time.AND judging yardage is a must to win at the national level in the open classes.
That isn't saying that speed doesn't help.A 1/2" at 40 yards might be the difference in winning and losing BUT if you are misjudging by 3 yards,you probably aren't winning anyway.[8D]
What Matt has experienced is pretty normal,he said he makes stronger shots when he doesn't know the yardage resulting in better scores over his known distance courses.Most will blame bad yardage before they will blaim themselves for a bad shot.Others have more confidence and make stronger shots when they know the yardage.It boils down to having to be able to shoot AND judge yardage to win.If you are counting on speed to carry yards,you probably aren't in the running anyway.
It is funny how this discussion keeps coming up and someone has to go test it and come back saying my info is correct.When doing the testing,just make sure the bow is tuned and sighted in for the slower speeds and document the drop from 1 speed to the other within the normal 3-d ranges.
BUT,the bow in question on this thread is a little more than 20 fps faster than the ASA maximum,there will definately be some yardage estimation adjustment to be made.Before I would slow a speed bow down,I would setup a target bow for it's intended purpose at the desired speed.
This is how it really works,the key to winning is being able to execute great shots time after time.AND judging yardage is a must to win at the national level in the open classes.
That isn't saying that speed doesn't help.A 1/2" at 40 yards might be the difference in winning and losing BUT if you are misjudging by 3 yards,you probably aren't winning anyway.[8D]
What Matt has experienced is pretty normal,he said he makes stronger shots when he doesn't know the yardage resulting in better scores over his known distance courses.Most will blame bad yardage before they will blaim themselves for a bad shot.Others have more confidence and make stronger shots when they know the yardage.It boils down to having to be able to shoot AND judge yardage to win.If you are counting on speed to carry yards,you probably aren't in the running anyway.
It is funny how this discussion keeps coming up and someone has to go test it and come back saying my info is correct.When doing the testing,just make sure the bow is tuned and sighted in for the slower speeds and document the drop from 1 speed to the other within the normal 3-d ranges.
BUT,the bow in question on this thread is a little more than 20 fps faster than the ASA maximum,there will definately be some yardage estimation adjustment to be made.Before I would slow a speed bow down,I would setup a target bow for it's intended purpose at the desired speed.
06-14-2008, 07:39 PM
#17
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 122
RE: 3D Speed limits?
Well I think that is what Matt and I are trying to convey to blackstick. I am with you, I would not turn that particular down that far but that is just me and most probably can't afford to go out and buy a second bow.
As far as the judging distance goes, I agree 100%. I am still new to archery and have been shooting in the novice class and have been since I started. Last weekend I decided to shoot the hunter class. I am not blaming my my score totally on misjudging my yardage but it did have alot to do with it. Like I said before, I shot about 30 points higher on the known yardage round. It was just a local shoot so I wrote the yardages down I shot in the unknown to see how I was judging and some were off as much as 5 yards. That being said I know I have to get better at the yardage thing as well as making good shots.
Am I going to try and shoot at a highh competitive level, no,I really don't have the time to invest in that. I go to local shoots, have gone to 1 asa shoot and plan on more and I did qualify for the state championship in the novice class and plan on shooting that. I hope I do well but at the end of the day I know that is totally up to me. I really dont think I wil ever move to an open class. I will stick to the novice class until after the classic and then move to hunter class. This is really about the hunting aspect of it for me so I shoot my hunting rig, arrows and all. I probably will never put a scope on my bow.
Anyways, I appreciate all the help anyone can give. I am still a rookie at this so I know I might sound a bit stupid at times. I just wanted to let blackstick know that asa did have rules and what they were so he would know in the future and didn't go up an asa shoot and expect to be able to shoot 342fps.
TFOX, If you have any tips on judging yardage that would be great. I have a method and it seems to work pretty well for me out to 30 but past that I just ain't no good. I think part of what got me at the last shoot was tight lanes, angled shots and humps in the lane, branches and what not. Any help would be awesome.
As far as the judging distance goes, I agree 100%. I am still new to archery and have been shooting in the novice class and have been since I started. Last weekend I decided to shoot the hunter class. I am not blaming my my score totally on misjudging my yardage but it did have alot to do with it. Like I said before, I shot about 30 points higher on the known yardage round. It was just a local shoot so I wrote the yardages down I shot in the unknown to see how I was judging and some were off as much as 5 yards. That being said I know I have to get better at the yardage thing as well as making good shots.
Am I going to try and shoot at a highh competitive level, no,I really don't have the time to invest in that. I go to local shoots, have gone to 1 asa shoot and plan on more and I did qualify for the state championship in the novice class and plan on shooting that. I hope I do well but at the end of the day I know that is totally up to me. I really dont think I wil ever move to an open class. I will stick to the novice class until after the classic and then move to hunter class. This is really about the hunting aspect of it for me so I shoot my hunting rig, arrows and all. I probably will never put a scope on my bow.
Anyways, I appreciate all the help anyone can give. I am still a rookie at this so I know I might sound a bit stupid at times. I just wanted to let blackstick know that asa did have rules and what they were so he would know in the future and didn't go up an asa shoot and expect to be able to shoot 342fps.
TFOX, If you have any tips on judging yardage that would be great. I have a method and it seems to work pretty well for me out to 30 but past that I just ain't no good. I think part of what got me at the last shoot was tight lanes, angled shots and humps in the lane, branches and what not. Any help would be awesome.
06-15-2008, 09:50 AM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: 3D Speed limits?
Good luck to you on achieving your goals.
My goal when I started was just to be able to consitantly shoot 270 on a 30 target course(no 12's or 11's) in the hunter class.I reached that then my goal was to consistantly be able to shoot 280 on the same course consistantly in the open class then I achieved that.Then the 11's and 12's came into play and my goal was to shoot around even and then I achieved that.
I had changed my goal to shooting up on all courses that would allow but as soon as I started shooting more up scores,I got really burnt out on it and just started playing ball with my kids instead of going to the shoots.Now I would be lucky to shoot a 280 from the mbr class and counting 11's.[&:]
Just ponting out is a great idea to set achievable goals,maybe even challenge yourself a bit more than I did.Just get the proper instruction early so you don't have the learning pains I did.
One of my favorite yardage practices is to take some small orange cones and place them at 5 yard increments to your target while shooting.This will teach you what 5 yards looks like all the time from different distances.Then,try judging to the targets with the cones and try and break it down into 1 yard increments so you can see what 34 looks like opposed to 37.
Another which hs been mentioned is the halway technique.Judge halfway and double.
Get a rangfinder,go to the woods and fields and start judging.Judge anything and everything to get better.
IMO,the most important is to shoot as many targets as possible and learn what they look like from many different distances.Being able to walk a 3-d course with your rangefinder and judging to the target can be most valuable in learning to judge targets.Too many times the ground just isn't visible and you need to know what they look like from different distances,then you will find yourself using that skill more and more when the ground is visible.
My goal when I started was just to be able to consitantly shoot 270 on a 30 target course(no 12's or 11's) in the hunter class.I reached that then my goal was to consistantly be able to shoot 280 on the same course consistantly in the open class then I achieved that.Then the 11's and 12's came into play and my goal was to shoot around even and then I achieved that.
I had changed my goal to shooting up on all courses that would allow but as soon as I started shooting more up scores,I got really burnt out on it and just started playing ball with my kids instead of going to the shoots.Now I would be lucky to shoot a 280 from the mbr class and counting 11's.[&:]
Just ponting out is a great idea to set achievable goals,maybe even challenge yourself a bit more than I did.Just get the proper instruction early so you don't have the learning pains I did.
One of my favorite yardage practices is to take some small orange cones and place them at 5 yard increments to your target while shooting.This will teach you what 5 yards looks like all the time from different distances.Then,try judging to the targets with the cones and try and break it down into 1 yard increments so you can see what 34 looks like opposed to 37.
Another which hs been mentioned is the halway technique.Judge halfway and double.
Get a rangfinder,go to the woods and fields and start judging.Judge anything and everything to get better.
IMO,the most important is to shoot as many targets as possible and learn what they look like from many different distances.Being able to walk a 3-d course with your rangefinder and judging to the target can be most valuable in learning to judge targets.Too many times the ground just isn't visible and you need to know what they look like from different distances,then you will find yourself using that skill more and more when the ground is visible.
06-15-2008, 02:35 PM
#19
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 122
RE: 3D Speed limits?
That all sounds good. I will give it all a try. I have set goals as far as shooting goes. I want to consistantly shoot even on a 40 target course. No 12s. I have been lately probably at the last 5 local shoots I have been to but those were dropping a few in the 8 and having to make it up. When I went to Augusta, the course was not that hard and it was all known yardage. I ended up shooting a 387 and I know that was all me.The last 2 local shoots I have been to that I shot the novice class, I shot a few up.I did shoot better on the unknown than I did on the known. I believe I shoot a bit more conservative when I don't know the yardage.
I am not sure of many of the rules other than the ASA but one thing that is discouraging is that to me I am a true noviceI would say. I just started shooting a bow in Feb. There are alot of guys shooting in that class for 2 and 3 years. That is why I want to move to the hunters class. I am going to shoot the state and the classoc in the novice but after that I am done. I figure if I'm going to get my but kicked it's going to be by people that deserve to. I think I will enjoy that class a bit more too. Just need to get tat yardage thing down. LOL
Hey thanks for the tips, I'm sure they will benefit me. Darn storming right now or I would be tryiing them out now.
I am not sure of many of the rules other than the ASA but one thing that is discouraging is that to me I am a true noviceI would say. I just started shooting a bow in Feb. There are alot of guys shooting in that class for 2 and 3 years. That is why I want to move to the hunters class. I am going to shoot the state and the classoc in the novice but after that I am done. I figure if I'm going to get my but kicked it's going to be by people that deserve to. I think I will enjoy that class a bit more too. Just need to get tat yardage thing down. LOL
Hey thanks for the tips, I'm sure they will benefit me. Darn storming right now or I would be tryiing them out now.
06-15-2008, 02:58 PM
#20
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northeast Tennessee
Posts: 5,673
RE: 3D Speed limits?
I really have to start working on yardage more. I have kind of had a rough go at it lately.Yardage is really what's holding me back from shooting well. I'm executing the shots but I just can't see yardage as well as what I want to. Then I have to remind myself I've only been shooting outdoor 3D for 3 months. I'm working at it though, I'm just having a rough time at the moment.