Howto Steady, for ironranger
03-06-2005 | 08:38 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Spike
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Howto Steady, for ironranger
Steading a Flushing Dog
to Wing and Shot
This will be a long winded post. But, you asked for it ironranger!
What I will attempt to cover is some generally accepted methods I've used and seen used by others successfully on flushing breeds. Springers to be precise.
A disclaimer: Not every method is covered here, nor is it implied that this will work for every dog or trainer. What works for me and my dogs may or may not work for you. And there is more than one way to steady a dog. Use your judgment! Know your dog!!
I will assume that your dog has the basic obedience commands down. Not just a little, or fairly well. You will need obedience down pat to be successful with as little aggravation as possible. And I will also assume that your dog is quartering properly. Plus, he needs to be retrieving properly too.
I start the steadying training in the yard. I simply carry a few dummies in my pockets and let the dog run loose with me. As the dog gets out away from me, I give two toots on my whistle to turn the dog back. As the dog turns to me and looks at me, I will toss a dummy behind me, keeping myself between the dog and the dummy. At the same time I will blow one toot on my whistle to stop and hup the dog. The dog will break to the dummy of course. As the dog tries to make the retrieve he will have to go around you to get it. Stop him (a check cord can be helpful) and return him to his original spot. Re-enforce the hup command. Go back and pick up the dummy yourself. Now you can release the dog. Continue to walk and let the dog do "its' thing". Then toss another dummy behind you again, repeating the previous steps. Every time the dog is successful, release the dog for the retrieve. Remember, at this point, the retrieve is the dogs' reward, along with your lavish and loving praise. If he breaks, catch him, return him to his spot and re-enforce the hup.
Most dogs will learn this in about a couple of weeks' time. But it may take longer or less time too. It all depends on your dog and the amount of time you have available to spend training. This is also a drill that I do with my dogs any time I do yard work with them. It never hurts to review!
Once you both have this down pat, you can start in the field. At this point it really, really helps to have two helpers to assist you. It can be done alone, but it becomes a lot harder, and takes a lot longer.
What you will do now, is add a touch of realism to the training. Have your helpers stand about 15 to 20 yards on your right and left (they are your gunners), so all three of you are standing in a parallel line with you and your dog in the middle. Your helpers will need a dummy each. Send your dog left or right towards either gunner. Start walking down field as the dog is quartering. After a couple of passes, when the dog turns to go back to the opposite gunner, have him toss the dummy. Give the whistle command to hup at the same time. If the dog breaks, run him down and return him to his spot. Go and pick up the dummy yourself. Repeat alternating from one side to the other. It shouldn't take the dog too long to realize that this is just like the yard work the two of you have been doing. Keep at this drill until the dog has it down pat!!
If you've been using an e-collar to train, this is a very good place to keep using it. If you don't have one, a check cord and chasing him down works as well. And it tends to VERY good exercise for you!!! Remember, e-collars, while nice and convenient, aren't an absolute must.
When you have the dummies down pat, change the drill by using dead birds. At this point it should go pretty quickly. After a couple times you should be ready to switch to clip-wings. You will probably notice that the dog may regress a bit at this point because of the live birds. Just keep re-enforcing the steady. If you need to, go back to dummies. Then work your way back to the clips.
This is why I keep doing the yard drill. It helps to re-enforce the steady in between the field sessions. And it can lessen or sometimes eliminate the slide backwards.
Add a gunshot to the above drill. A training pistol will work just fine. Make the dog hup with a shot fired while the bird is in the air, AND when his back is turned and no bird is thrown. This will make him steady to the shot also.
The last step is the most fun and possibly the most aggravating and trying. It's time to plant birds and shoot over him. This time, your gunners will carry guns and shoot. You don't, remember you have your hands full just handling the dog yet! You can plant the birds ahead for the dog to find, or simply roll them in for the dog as you go down field for the dog to find. But I almost can promise the dog will break when he gets his nose full!!! You just have to keep at it.
My general rule for discipline during this phase, break once, you will get corrected. Break twice, and you go back to your kennel to think about it for a while. And some other dog gets the chance to train while you watch. Then after a while, he gets another chance. An important training rule that I have, if my dog totally blows up on me during any training (and it will happen!), is to do something, ANY thing, I know the dog will do correctly. This is to always end the session on a good note so I can praise my dog.
I do hope you have been able to get two good shooters to help you during this last phase. At the flush, the gunners MUST wait to see if the dog remains steady before shooting. A dog that even looks like it might break, gets no shot. And the bird flies away. So your shots will be around the 40 yard mark most of the time. The best gunners I've been around can "ride" the bird to 50, even 60 yards and still make the shot!!! No small feat considering we mostly use pigeons for this training. Don't worry about missing too much though. The dog needs to learn that not all birds will be shot. I even let the dog occasionally flush with no shot. I just let the bird go, as not all birds are shot at for one reason or another. Continue to fire "behind" dogs' back once in a while to practice being steady to the shot. And remember, from this point on never, ever shoot over that dog if he even looks like he about to break. You may have just flushed the biggest, baddest rooster in the world. But you must pass on it, or risk going back to square one in your training! Once is often all it takes!
I suppose this is a good place to inject a warning here. The steadying process will mess up your dogs' explosive flush, and his marking and retrieving ability. At least for a while. But it will come back as he gets more comfortable with what he's doing. Up until now, he's probably chased. And now all of a sudden you expect him not to do that anymore. He's going to be confused, and worried about messing up and getting disciplined. Most dogs will get over it just fine. A few will show some slight softening of their flush but continue to retrieve well. A very few will quit. I've only ever seen one dog quit hunting because of the training. And that dog was pretty borderline as a field dog in my opinion. If it had been my dog, I wouldn't have tried to steady her. She was way too soft. But there is that risk no matter how small. Know and learn your dogs' personality!
Sooner or later if you do all of this, you will end up with a dog that is steady to the wing and shot. Now you must continue to work at training to keep your dog there. They do forget if they don't practice. Try to get out and train a couple of times a month all year round if possible. Like any great athlete, it takes work to keep that edge!! Now hit the trial circuit so I can read about you and your dog at the Nationals!!!
Does this all seem like a lot of work? It probably is, but we do it because we like to. Training is a journey we take with our dogs, not a destination that we need to get to as fast as possible.
How long will this all take? Well, it depends on the time you have, and how receptive your dog is to training. A good Pro can do it in 4 to 8 weeks. The rest of us poor saps who have to make a living at something else, it most likely will take the better part of a summer to get to the - maybe I'm steady, maybe I'm not- point in the training. With the following summer needed to firm it all up. I've also personally seen it take 3 to 4 years!! And some never do really get it. The sire to my 3 year old female Springer took his owner 5 years to steady! He was a real handful in his younger days, but he was well worth the wait! My girl took but one summer to get it down. Though I no longer require her to be steady (or any of my dogs anymore).
That's pretty much it. I'm quite sure I've forgot to include something some where in my attempt to be as brief as possible. And I've probably made something at least a little confusing to read. So, any comments or questions, good or bad are welcome! Hey, I've still got a lot to learn too!
Dale
to Wing and Shot
This will be a long winded post. But, you asked for it ironranger!
What I will attempt to cover is some generally accepted methods I've used and seen used by others successfully on flushing breeds. Springers to be precise.
A disclaimer: Not every method is covered here, nor is it implied that this will work for every dog or trainer. What works for me and my dogs may or may not work for you. And there is more than one way to steady a dog. Use your judgment! Know your dog!!
I will assume that your dog has the basic obedience commands down. Not just a little, or fairly well. You will need obedience down pat to be successful with as little aggravation as possible. And I will also assume that your dog is quartering properly. Plus, he needs to be retrieving properly too.
I start the steadying training in the yard. I simply carry a few dummies in my pockets and let the dog run loose with me. As the dog gets out away from me, I give two toots on my whistle to turn the dog back. As the dog turns to me and looks at me, I will toss a dummy behind me, keeping myself between the dog and the dummy. At the same time I will blow one toot on my whistle to stop and hup the dog. The dog will break to the dummy of course. As the dog tries to make the retrieve he will have to go around you to get it. Stop him (a check cord can be helpful) and return him to his original spot. Re-enforce the hup command. Go back and pick up the dummy yourself. Now you can release the dog. Continue to walk and let the dog do "its' thing". Then toss another dummy behind you again, repeating the previous steps. Every time the dog is successful, release the dog for the retrieve. Remember, at this point, the retrieve is the dogs' reward, along with your lavish and loving praise. If he breaks, catch him, return him to his spot and re-enforce the hup.
Most dogs will learn this in about a couple of weeks' time. But it may take longer or less time too. It all depends on your dog and the amount of time you have available to spend training. This is also a drill that I do with my dogs any time I do yard work with them. It never hurts to review!
Once you both have this down pat, you can start in the field. At this point it really, really helps to have two helpers to assist you. It can be done alone, but it becomes a lot harder, and takes a lot longer.
What you will do now, is add a touch of realism to the training. Have your helpers stand about 15 to 20 yards on your right and left (they are your gunners), so all three of you are standing in a parallel line with you and your dog in the middle. Your helpers will need a dummy each. Send your dog left or right towards either gunner. Start walking down field as the dog is quartering. After a couple of passes, when the dog turns to go back to the opposite gunner, have him toss the dummy. Give the whistle command to hup at the same time. If the dog breaks, run him down and return him to his spot. Go and pick up the dummy yourself. Repeat alternating from one side to the other. It shouldn't take the dog too long to realize that this is just like the yard work the two of you have been doing. Keep at this drill until the dog has it down pat!!
If you've been using an e-collar to train, this is a very good place to keep using it. If you don't have one, a check cord and chasing him down works as well. And it tends to VERY good exercise for you!!! Remember, e-collars, while nice and convenient, aren't an absolute must.
When you have the dummies down pat, change the drill by using dead birds. At this point it should go pretty quickly. After a couple times you should be ready to switch to clip-wings. You will probably notice that the dog may regress a bit at this point because of the live birds. Just keep re-enforcing the steady. If you need to, go back to dummies. Then work your way back to the clips.
This is why I keep doing the yard drill. It helps to re-enforce the steady in between the field sessions. And it can lessen or sometimes eliminate the slide backwards.
Add a gunshot to the above drill. A training pistol will work just fine. Make the dog hup with a shot fired while the bird is in the air, AND when his back is turned and no bird is thrown. This will make him steady to the shot also.
The last step is the most fun and possibly the most aggravating and trying. It's time to plant birds and shoot over him. This time, your gunners will carry guns and shoot. You don't, remember you have your hands full just handling the dog yet! You can plant the birds ahead for the dog to find, or simply roll them in for the dog as you go down field for the dog to find. But I almost can promise the dog will break when he gets his nose full!!! You just have to keep at it.
My general rule for discipline during this phase, break once, you will get corrected. Break twice, and you go back to your kennel to think about it for a while. And some other dog gets the chance to train while you watch. Then after a while, he gets another chance. An important training rule that I have, if my dog totally blows up on me during any training (and it will happen!), is to do something, ANY thing, I know the dog will do correctly. This is to always end the session on a good note so I can praise my dog.
I do hope you have been able to get two good shooters to help you during this last phase. At the flush, the gunners MUST wait to see if the dog remains steady before shooting. A dog that even looks like it might break, gets no shot. And the bird flies away. So your shots will be around the 40 yard mark most of the time. The best gunners I've been around can "ride" the bird to 50, even 60 yards and still make the shot!!! No small feat considering we mostly use pigeons for this training. Don't worry about missing too much though. The dog needs to learn that not all birds will be shot. I even let the dog occasionally flush with no shot. I just let the bird go, as not all birds are shot at for one reason or another. Continue to fire "behind" dogs' back once in a while to practice being steady to the shot. And remember, from this point on never, ever shoot over that dog if he even looks like he about to break. You may have just flushed the biggest, baddest rooster in the world. But you must pass on it, or risk going back to square one in your training! Once is often all it takes!
I suppose this is a good place to inject a warning here. The steadying process will mess up your dogs' explosive flush, and his marking and retrieving ability. At least for a while. But it will come back as he gets more comfortable with what he's doing. Up until now, he's probably chased. And now all of a sudden you expect him not to do that anymore. He's going to be confused, and worried about messing up and getting disciplined. Most dogs will get over it just fine. A few will show some slight softening of their flush but continue to retrieve well. A very few will quit. I've only ever seen one dog quit hunting because of the training. And that dog was pretty borderline as a field dog in my opinion. If it had been my dog, I wouldn't have tried to steady her. She was way too soft. But there is that risk no matter how small. Know and learn your dogs' personality!
Sooner or later if you do all of this, you will end up with a dog that is steady to the wing and shot. Now you must continue to work at training to keep your dog there. They do forget if they don't practice. Try to get out and train a couple of times a month all year round if possible. Like any great athlete, it takes work to keep that edge!! Now hit the trial circuit so I can read about you and your dog at the Nationals!!!
Does this all seem like a lot of work? It probably is, but we do it because we like to. Training is a journey we take with our dogs, not a destination that we need to get to as fast as possible.
How long will this all take? Well, it depends on the time you have, and how receptive your dog is to training. A good Pro can do it in 4 to 8 weeks. The rest of us poor saps who have to make a living at something else, it most likely will take the better part of a summer to get to the - maybe I'm steady, maybe I'm not- point in the training. With the following summer needed to firm it all up. I've also personally seen it take 3 to 4 years!! And some never do really get it. The sire to my 3 year old female Springer took his owner 5 years to steady! He was a real handful in his younger days, but he was well worth the wait! My girl took but one summer to get it down. Though I no longer require her to be steady (or any of my dogs anymore).
That's pretty much it. I'm quite sure I've forgot to include something some where in my attempt to be as brief as possible. And I've probably made something at least a little confusing to read. So, any comments or questions, good or bad are welcome! Hey, I've still got a lot to learn too!
Dale
03-06-2005 | 11:09 AM
#2
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
From: Central Ohio OH USA
RE: Howto Steady, for ironranger
Very well written Dale, what name of your kennel?
Anyone trying to steady a dog for first time IMO should consult a successfull pro trainer for assistance.if they use Ecollar make sure they use it properly or not at all. Unfortunetly some trainers overuse collar causeing problems.
Anyone trying to steady a dog for first time IMO should consult a successfull pro trainer for assistance.if they use Ecollar make sure they use it properly or not at all. Unfortunetly some trainers overuse collar causeing problems.
03-06-2005 | 12:26 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Spike
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
RE: Howto Steady, for ironranger
Hi,
Thank You TreestandEd for the kind words! I'm not a pro trainer so I don't have a kennel name. I've just been messing with dogs all my life. And I've been fortunate enough to be able to hang around some very good trainers in Minnesota. Both Pro and Am.
Yeah, you are right about the e-coller. I've seen more than one dog ruined by poor useage. If you are unsure about its' proper use in training, don't use it! Get help from someone who really understands the correct use! Springers tend to be softer and more anxious to please than some of the retrieving or pointing breeds, so collers tend to be used less.
Dale
Thank You TreestandEd for the kind words! I'm not a pro trainer so I don't have a kennel name. I've just been messing with dogs all my life. And I've been fortunate enough to be able to hang around some very good trainers in Minnesota. Both Pro and Am.
Yeah, you are right about the e-coller. I've seen more than one dog ruined by poor useage. If you are unsure about its' proper use in training, don't use it! Get help from someone who really understands the correct use! Springers tend to be softer and more anxious to please than some of the retrieving or pointing breeds, so collers tend to be used less.
Dale
03-08-2005 | 07:33 AM
#4
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: Ironwood, Michigan
RE: Howto Steady, for ironranger
dalee1002000,
I concur with your method. It's how I've done it for years. I would only say, don't be in a hurry. We're amatuers. We don't have anyone breathing down our necks. No time constraints. Let's take our time and do every step to a fine honed edge. Don't bore the dog, but don't skip or get in a hurry. That way the dog does it's deal very well.
Dr Fatguy
I concur with your method. It's how I've done it for years. I would only say, don't be in a hurry. We're amatuers. We don't have anyone breathing down our necks. No time constraints. Let's take our time and do every step to a fine honed edge. Don't bore the dog, but don't skip or get in a hurry. That way the dog does it's deal very well.
Dr Fatguy
