i know lab breeder,his site is BORN2HUNT.he is close to me here in clinton county,pa.he is in potter county.
he bought 2 dogs from pointing lab,top lab .

both never pointed and he said he paid a lot of money to get them as he was going to raise pointing labs.

Not uncommon, I have hunted with many supposed "pointing labs" and none pointed to a level to be distinguished as having any pointing in their bloodline. I know there are some labs that point but people hear "Pointing Lab" and believe this to be another category of lab and credit is being given to a breeding that is not accurate. I still say there is not a high enough percentage of these pointing labs being produced to label it as a distinguished sub category of a Labrador Retriever. Some labs point most will not. I think a truer description would be to say I have a lab that points instead of say I have a pointing lab since there is no such thing recognized officially outside of independent organizations with an agenda to push the idea and make the idea credible.

Best all around sporting breed is the ONE breed you CHOOSE!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
Pure and simple

JW

Wait! Wait!

Have to get the popcorn out of the microwave!

Everyone has breed or dog blindness to a certain extent. How many of you remember and get excited over someone else's dogs point? But I bet you remember your dog's first point distinctively.

Regarding PLs. They probably do exist. Those that own them say so. Just like people who actually seen the curvature of the earth say this planet is round. You just have to take some things on faith.

To the original topic, best all around sporting dog; I have to first off define what sporting means to me. I don't waterfowl hunt, antler hunt, or bloodtrack. Sporting dog to me means upland birds, which I can only formulate an opinion on. And for me its:

opcorn momment:

The setter, followed closely by the English pointer. Nothing against other breeds but there's something about the way the setters work. There's a few important (to me) reasons why the lab, gsp, wirehair, etc. just doesn't work for me:

For labs, its the way they run. I know its normal as any dogs but pointing dogs have an easy gait and when at full run, its smooth. They're not faster than the lab but doesn't seem as labored.

For the other pointers its their tail or lack of. And beards belong on a barmaid not a dog. Personal preferences but I just gotta have that tail.

One other item is setters tend (in my experience) want to always hunt. How can you tell? Open the door. The momment she steps out, she's looking for anything furry or feathery. At the park, she has a one tracked mind; search and search. If another dog wants to play, she'll ignore them and keep searching. If I point, she'll immediately go low and act like she's stalking. Then she'll turn, look at me with wide eyes as if she's saying, "WHERE?!"

She's also a very good house pet. If a stranger approached the house, she'll bark but with tail wagging. If they open the door (happens sometimes when I had a roommate), she will sit in front of them and 'whooooooo' at them (translation: PET ME!). She's also very gentle around childen. She will approach them very slowly then stand there and let them pet her. There are children who are afraid of dogs but absolutely love her. The boys will try to rough house with her and the girls will try to hug her, but she just stands there and takes everything in stride.

Oh, and about her sense of smell; she can distinguish between dog and human feces. She doesn't care about her fellow dog but human waste; given the chance, she can find a pile, roll in it several times, come back half covered before you can gag out, "What the...?"

best all around SPORTING dog is SMALL LONG LEGGED LAB.only because they can do it ALL.then throw in the around house and they are equal with all dogs,great at home and DONT SHED TOO MUCH.
GSP is real close because they can retrieve IN WATER but they POINT.lab FLUSHES BY NATURE BUT CAN point ALSO nature or not.
gsp IS NOT flusher, I GUESS YOU COULD MAKE ONE THAT, DONT KNOW.flusher is a must if you are hunting wild pheasants or tame ones after awhile.they will RUN.
but for birds,wild birds i like the LEWELLIN SETTER.only because they are SMALL.i like small dogs in woods of pa but what do i know, I AM ONLY ONE USING LAB ON GROUSE?

if i wanted to KILL more grouse,ONLY OWN 1 dog IT WOULD BE GSP because they can go in water.if i wanted a 2 dog ,it would be LAB/SETTER..
but KILLING MORE GROUSE is not great thing for me so i like the LAB.i like idea i can go in river swimming with my lab every other day in heat.

only flaw in the LAB is heavy coat,its great in cold water but is a problem in heat in early oct hunting pheasants/grouse.if toby would not look bad or someone give sproul heck, i would shave toby in early oct.

THEN I WOULD HAVE HUNTING MACHINE, FOR SURE.

Pretty interesting thread. I have been following it from the first page. Labs do point sorry Mustad. To say they dont is to say no pointing breed retrieves. Yes its true many retriever guys say they only retrieve when force fetched. Saying that is the same as saying a pointing lab doesnt point. Heres a novel idea a lab that doesnt point isnt a pointing lab. Why do people say they have a pointing lab when their dog truely doesnt point?

a lot swear they have a lab that POINTS.
toby will hold himself still for at least 13 minutes i timed him.
i was told toby is not pointing he is STANDING,could be.
but i call it pointing when he feels like doing it.

Here we go again. Red, I think I have conceded the point that "some" labs point. That said, some Teckel's point; some Blueticks point; some English Pointers don't point. There are always exceptions to any rule. There is always the chance that offspring won't hold the traits for which they were intended.

I just went out and watched another "pointing" lab do some birdwork this afternoon. I don't want to mention the breeder of the dog as it comes from an APLA affiliated kennel. The dog did outstanding bird work up until the point that it should have pointed. To say this dog pointed is frankly a joke; yet the owner was adamant that dog pointed. I am baffled by the insistence on this point (no pun intended). Y'all really need to get over yourselves. Statistically, if you took the total number of labs that exist today and calculated the percentage of those dogs that actually point as defined by any pointing dog organization; the percentage would probably be so low that to say labs don't point probably wouldn't be an erroneous comment. However, we live in a PC world today and if one lab in the universe shows an incling of pointing instinct; weak as it may be; by golly we better make sure we are calling it a pointing lab. Don't worry I get it. It's the same reason I have to call a stewardess a "flight attendant".

The interesting thing about this argument is I really don't have a problem with labs. I have owned and hunted over labs before. If I were just a duck hunter, I would own a lab (well actually a chessie); but I'm not. I also hunt ruffed grouse, wood****, spruce grouse, pheasants, chuckar, sharpies and huns as well as cottontails and snowshoe hare and prefer hunting over a pointing dog. I hunt in a variety of terrain ranging from the tight woods here in New England and Quebec; to the prairies of Montana and Saskatchewan to the mountains of Idaho as well as overseas; primarily in Germany. I also use my dogs to track down wounded deer, moose, wild boar and this year some New Foundlander Caribou if we're lucky enough.

So, maybe some labs point. Frankly though, I've never seen it and I've seen enough folks that say they have pointing labs and even after the lab takes the bird out, they insist there was a point there somewhere. Maybe I need to get my eyes checked or figure out how to use the freeze frame on my camera better. Until then, I would prefer having an actual pointing dog that has over a century of ancestry of dogs that have consistently pointed; but have and will concede to the fact that "some" labs "point" due to the impossibility that all labs don't.

I'd keep going, but the flight attendant just arrived with my rum and coke