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RE: ***URGENT VIRGINIA HUNTING DOG OWNERS***
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RE: ***URGENT VIRGINIA HUNTING DOG OWNERS***
Well, like i said before, i would imagine that some of those bowhunters and still hunters are pulling their share of stunts too. I would imagine that lots of landowners would be more upset about a tree ruined by an illegal stand that the thought of some dogs running across their south 40 in August. If folks started really pushing issues like that really hard, then suddenly hound hunters might not be the front page news anymore. Who knows. All I know is that i have done a lot of different kinds of hunting and have learned that favored hunting styles are like B-holes: everyone has one, but thinks that everyone else's stinks. ;)
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RE: ***URGENT VIRGINIA HUNTING DOG OWNERS***
ORIGINAL: Bigg~BirddVA Seems others are voicing their views on this as well. New site and forum is up. Go to the send a letter page and you can find and send one to your state reps. http://www.vhhr.org Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform "keywords" content="bow hunting, deer, dog, hound, VDGIF, hunting, VAHDA, VDHA, VHHR,deer hunting, animal abuse, hunting with hounds |
RE: ***URGENT VIRGINIA HUNTING DOG OWNERS***
The game wardens told me that there is no intent to ban hunting of any type..he said that they want to try and reach the non hunting community and educate them about dog hunting... I hunt with bird dogs and have a right up here to run them all year long if I so desired to.. But most hunters are in fact pretty ethical when it comes to this and young ones being in the woods.. So they choose not to run any dogs while the birds are young. Same with hound hunters up here plus a permit is required for hound hunters to train theirs. I think you will find most hunters show good ethics in this area. White tail fox, naw. Paranoid and selfish still hunter, that is much more likely the species in question. I hear what ya saying, but around here, the bowhunter and still hunter is the minority. |
RE: ***URGENT VIRGINIA HUNTING DOG OWNERS***
Phil, what the wardens are trying to do is mediate between the dog owners and those who do not hunt. Theyhear the arguement going on and will vote on the issue. Non hunters will vote and not know what to vote for or against. They are trying to get some type of communication between the two types and convince the non hunters and doghunters that they can live together. This issue did not come about because of bowhunters and still hunters. It came about b/c of land owners and dog owners. Came about from dog owners showing no respect for other land owners. NOT ALL dog owners are guilty, but enough are to warrant a debate in this STATE. How did this turn into still hunters vs dog owners? The debate started over dog ownersand landowners. It just so happens that dog owners not only caused problems for non participating land owners, they affected others too. This situation is all relative to where I live. It may not happen in your area, but it is happening here, we ain't making it up, the issue has already been to the Va assembly and debated. It is what it is. I keep saying this to yall, I support dog hunting!! I do and always have hunted this way! But! wrong is wrong, and Im sure that bowhunters and still hunters brake the law too, but that is not the issue at this time, the issue is the dog owners and what they are doing.
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RE: ***URGENT VIRGINIA HUNTING DOG OWNERS***
ORIGINAL: Vabowman Phil, what the wardens are trying to do is mediate between the dog owners and those who do not hunt. Theyhear the arguement going on and will vote on the issue. Non hunters will vote and not know what to vote for or against. They are trying to get some type of communication between the two types and convince the non hunters and doghunters that they can live together. This issue did not come about because of bowhunters and still hunters. It came about b/c of land owners and dog owners. Came about from dog owners showing no respect for other land owners. NOT ALL dog owners are guilty, but enough are to warrant a debate in this STATE. How did this turn into still hunters vs dog owners? The debate started over dog ownersand landowners. It just so happens that dog owners not only caused problems for non participating land owners, they affected others too. This situation is all relative to where I live. It may not happen in your area, but it is happening here, we ain't making it up, the issue has already been to the Va assembly and debated. It is what it is. I keep saying this to yall, I support dog hunting!! I do and always have hunted this way! But! wrong is wrong, and Im sure that bowhunters and still hunters brake the law too, but that is not the issue at this time, the issue is the dog owners and what they are doing. Off Soapbox.... sorry. Back to the quote above......I'll vouch for Landon (Vabowman)in any court. In fact one of the first deer I ever killed (at the ripe old age of 7) was killed at the club to which he still belongs. It was New Years Day and there were 6 walkers in hot pursuit. And I've killed probably half a dozen there over the ensuing 20 years. Specifically... to break it down a bit more for those of y'all not from VA, is that we generally have a fair amount of "come heres". Northern VA and tidewater and even the Richmond area in the last 15-20 years has exploded with growth. Places where I used to hunt, and other spots where vabowman used to hunt are now neighborhoods, strip malls and county owned "private" land. The baby boomers are retiring. A lawyer from NOVA (Northern VA) retires, and sees 100 acres in Prince George County for sale. Most of the land like this belongs to rural familes, most of whom cannot afford to scratch out a living by farming or what have you anymore. Lots of the plants and mills have closed down... all they have is the land they've had as long as VA has been a state. So the lawyer buys up this land, which used to be leased to a hunt club. The hunt club would often pay all the personal property tax on a piece of land, espeically if it was a smaller piece that joined two larger blocks they hunted. Now, Mr. Yankee lawyer owns it. Maybe he hunts, perhaps he doesn't. Doesn't matter, its his property and he can do what he wants with it. Issue is, now the club has a new neighbor. Some clubs try dipolomacy first (most do). Some try to keep the same arrangement going. SOme just don't give a damn. Sooner or later, there is going to be some hounds running through Mr. Yankee's land... and thats when all hell breaks loose. Another situation, paper companies. Pulp is selling at all time highs. So is (was) land. The paper companies are investing in Brasil, where Yellow and VA pines for making paper can be grown at litterally twice the rate as here in the states and with lower labor costs. So they are striping the land of the trees, selling to developers, and the hunt clubs that had hunted there for 50 some years are just the odd men out. |
RE: ***URGENT VIRGINIA HUNTING DOG OWNERS***
ORIGINAL: Bywater Please allow me to explain the post to which Hokieman refers. I am the person responsible for writing it; though through a family misunderstanding it was posted online without my knowledge. No harm done. I am not on any "side" in all these silly hunting disputes. Yes, silly. As a citizen and sportsman - I have grave concerns about this Study. Because after days of review, which included fact checking, review of literature cited, and inquiries made into the personnel involved.... a pattern emerged. So I went and read the Bear Management Plan. Deer Management Plan. And I continued reading. And folks - if y'all think this is about hunting deer with dogs you're way off base. I don't even hunt deer with dogs - this Study isn't about that. This is fatally flawed; bad science, bad writing, manipulated survey's, and animal rights. First, if any citizen wrote emails or letters to the SAC during the Informal Survey - those letters were not counted. The only input used in the content analysis were the letters sent to the VDGIF at the urging of one citizen. Second, the content analysis used inappropriate methodology to calculate the results; a method calculated to produce the desired outcome; which included artificially inflating numbers. Third, the literature cited was not peer-reviewed (less than 20 studies were actual peer-reviewed). This is an unacceptably low number. The "literature" that is referred to repeatedly is that of VDGIF's own Master's Theses while they were students at Virginia Tech. Theses are not appropriate literature to cite - again - no peer review. The other literature is almost solely that of the contractor hired by VDGIF to conduct market based public opinion surveys. Market based research is NOT the same as proper, objective surveys performed by social science institutions. Market based is for-profit. This company packages their data and sells it to... whoever. In this case, the contractor focuses on recreational use of land - not hunting and fishing issues. Market based research is not the same as real science. How does this affect hunting, and especially hunting with hounds? Well, several ways. First, the information contained in the Technical Report is erroneous. In cases in which other states are mentioned, you will note that it is always in the context of banning or restricting hunting, and always states in which animal rights groups have also been active in a ban/restriction. Oregon - The Technical Report mentions many times that use of dogs to hunt bear and cougar were banned. What they did NOT reveal was that cougar numbers quickly rose 36%; and hunting with hounds was reinstuted about 4 years ago - and biologists state, in writing, that hunting with hounds is the preferred method. Similar in Washington. They also mention that Virginia is the only state that has the Right to Retrieve. This is incorrect. Virginia is the only state that CALLS this statute the Right to Retrieve. Many other states have such laws; other states even allow citizens to follow game onto land, to retrieve livestock, etc. HSUS and PeTA have indeed been involved in this Study from the outset; and have sent thousands of letters demanding hunting with hounds be banned. Bow hunters are also in the crosshairs, as are other still hunters. HSUS has 3 full time lobbyists in Richmond, and PeTA has also been alerted about the Public Comment period. I apologize for the length of this post. I could go into great detail about the Technical Report; including their faulty assertion about the lawsuit with International Paper, their obvious bias for wildlife viewing rather than hunting (any hunting), etc. I'd be happy to answer specific questions anyone has about this report. But please know that this is not about people running deer with dogs - it is about all hunting, including retrievers (this Study applies to bird dogs and that is stated in the Technical Report). In the meantime, it's important that all hunters, unite for just one moment and express support for hunting - because HSUS and PeTA most certainly will expres the opposite. |
RE: ***URGENT VIRGINIA HUNTING DOG OWNERS***
Lanse, Swampcollie and I hunt in the same county and both of us have witnessed our hunts being ruined on the count of hounds running through the property.....thing is, when this happened....it was spring gobbler season!!!!! You must understand that dog hunting is the main stay here in Va and trust me dogs are being run year around and they ain't running foxes. As a dog hunter myself, Im not asking for a ban, Im asking for something to be done about this illegal practice. I don't blame the dogs, they are only doing what is natural to them, but the blame is not on the bowhunter/still hunter....it's on the dog owners. Game wardens are not in the business of banning hunting, it would put them out of work. They are trying to deligently find a solution to a growing problem, people are paranoid, but it ain't bowhunters and still hunters....it's the dog guys, they are worried that the tradition will go away from here, but they need to look in the mirrior to fix it before it's too late.
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RE: ***URGENT VIRGINIA HUNTING DOG OWNERS***
ORIGINAL: Vabowman Lanse, Swampcollie and I hunt in the same county and both of us have witnessed our hunts being ruined on the count of hounds running through the property.....thing is, when this happened....it was spring gobbler season!!!!! You must understand that dog hunting is the main stay here in Va and trust me dogs are being run year around and they ain't running foxes. As a dog hunter myself, Im not asking for a ban, Im asking for something to be done about this illegal practice. I don't blame the dogs, they are only doing what is natural to them, but the blame is not on the bowhunter/still hunter....it's on the dog owners. Game wardens are not in the business of banning hunting, it would put them out of work. They are trying to deligently find a solution to a growing problem, people are paranoid, but it ain't bowhunters and still hunters....it's the dog guys, they are worried that the tradition will go away from here, but they need to look in the mirrior to fix it before it's too late. Though I must give credit where its due.... I only had two turkey hunts this past spring get even remotely (one time directly) interrupted by dogs. Fortunately neither time was I working a bird. The one direct time two dogs (no collars) ran three deer across the Mile Field (its literally a mile long). I've had birds out in the field almost in gun range in seasons past down in Sussex County, just to suddenly have a dog or occasionally a pack of dogs jump a pregnant about to burst at the seems doe and ruin the hunt. Half the time, the dogs have blaze orange collars... half the time they don't... probably dogs that were just left because they wouldn't run... or at least thats what the dog drivers say. |
RE: ***URGENT VIRGINIA HUNTING DOG OWNERS***
yep that sounds about right.....hey where did everybody go?? Lanse?? Phil??
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