Which Dog to Get
 

GSP OR ENGLISH SETTER????????????

I am currently looking for a new dog to work as both hunting companion and family pet. I have narrowed my search to English Setters and SP's. I currently live in Georgia, and most of my hunting will be upland game birds, with the occasional trip south to shoot some ducks.
When I was younger I worked at a kennel that bred English Setters in Michigan, and am very familiar with the breed in the field. I owned a beautiful female from the Wire bloodline. A wonderful dog, but i never got to see her in a real home environment as I was single, and she stayed at the Kennel with her siblings. Since Then I have had the opportunity to hunt over a pair ofGSP'sand I fell in love with them in the field environment. Both are full of energy, and great hunters. I have several trusted friends back home that all swear by the setters, but everything I read, and get online seems to point toward the GSP.
How do these two dogs compare in the HOME environment, with children, and everything else. My kids are 5 and 1.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

Just by reading your post, it sounds like you want a GSP. Get what you want and not what someone tells you to get. Gook luck!

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

IHAVE AN ENGLISH SETTER, AND OF ALL THE DOGS I HAVE KNOWN...OF ALL BREEDS...ENGLISH SETTER SEEM TO BESMARTER AND A BETTER FAMILY PET...HE'S VERY CALM WHILE INDOORS AND LOVES TO CLOSE TO ANYONE ON THE COUCH OR BED...HE'S NEVER HAD AN ACCIDENT IN THE HOUSE...GREAT WATCH DOG...AND LISTENS, VERY OBEDIENT AND WILL DO ANYTHING I ASK.. THEY ARE CLOSE WORKERS IN THE
FIELD, WHICH I LIKE....CAUSE I AM GETTING TO OLD AND FAT TO BE CHASING AFTER A DOG...
http://s97.photobucket.com/albums/l210/ronrihm/?action=view&current=vacation001.jpg

A COUPLE OF MY FRIENDS HAVE GERMAN SHORTHAIR POINTERS AND THESE DOGS ARE FULL OF ENERGY....AND ARE ALWAYS
BOUNCING OF THE WALLS...VERY AGRESSIVE AND ALWAYS ON THE MOVE. BUT THEY ARE GREAT HUNTING DOGS...

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

Any and all hunting dogs have to have a lot of energy regardless of the breed. Who in the heck would want a hunting dog that runs and finds a tree or brush pile to lay in? Most every bird dog I know of can make a good family pet. I love the style and looks of the setters. For me seeing and watching a setter work in the field is hard to compare to. Regaurdless of the type of setter you choose they a can be a great family dog as well as hunters.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

A Setter will love you and your children. always being non agressive.
No Matter What.
Alotbetter bird dog for wild quail.May not be the right choice if you want something to run loose. A GSP is a better preserve dog for the most. Closer, retrieves better, some may work for waterfowl.
However, our American GSP has been breed to English Pointers to devolpe a better, more natural bird dog. Pointers are more aggressive and most of them i would never allow in the house, much less be around my kids.
You really need to think about how much you will actually hunt. Some folks buy a dog thinking they are going to hunt alot. When the facts are they have not hunted in manyyears oronly go a few times,and will more than likely not have a chance to get away to hunt except for aonce or twice a year.
Is that really fair for a true hunting breed.
I Think Not.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

I have no idea where these descriptions of 'aggressive' pointers are coming from. We have a GSP who is around a year old, and he is extremely gentle and careful. He is affectionate but not overwhelming, and mostly likes to justsit on your feetrather than jump all over people. He has been exceptional with every child he has met, and is very calm and docile around them. You can take anything from him, he will not growl. Like any largedog I'd imagine he might accidentally knock a very small child over, but there is no malice to him whatsoever. Temperament-wise i'd trust himwith a childover our Black Lab/Golden, Bloodhound and Black Mouth Cur put together.

He is exuberant and does need to run a lot, but he is calm indoors. I think a GSP would become problematic if kept alone outside (as with any dog).Any dog will come up with bad habits to entertain itself ifnot givenenough stimulation. Ours does not do well alone, but I believe this is because he was a rescue and has bonded very closely with myself and the other dogs. He is completely submissive with other dogs.

Any breed of dog will be aggressive if you buy one that is poorly bred and/or allow it to behave in an aggressive manner. Whichever dog you get, make sure the dog AND the children know the rules on how to treat each other, and you should not have problems.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

Cara,
Congrats on your Docile Dog.
Did you Know that the first test they give at a shelter was to take a bowl of food away from a dog that may not have eaten in several days or seen a bowl of food in weeks?
Do you know what happens if the dog growls? It is Killed.......
No One in the history of the world has ever got a good bird dog from a shelter.
A Pet is A Pet.A Bird Dog is something Special. A Part of Hunting Heratige and a Costly Rewarding Relationship that should be valued for a long time.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

No dog should show aggression to family members or those it is familiar with, end of story. Temperament is key to any good working partnership; a vicious dog is a liability, not a joy. How can owning an aggressive animal be a 'rewarding relationship'? Costly, yes, in terms of medical bills. Like the majority of your arguments, I can see no common sense in tolerating aggression from an animal that will be a family member for 10yrs+.

The dog in question was found as a young puppy, and grew up in a small town pound until his time was almost up. Unlike those who would turn their nose up at a dog that didn't cost hundreds of dollars, I chose to take him in and give him a chance. Who was his previous owner? Most likely a hunter. Who bred him? Probably someone selling bird dogs. It disgusts me that some who claim to be 'dog people' lose allcompassion if a dog does not have papers.

To claim that rescue dogs can never make goodbird dogs is an ignorant, sweeping judgement. Nine times out of ten, the owner is the reasonthe dog has ended up in that predicament, the dog has done nothing wrong. Rather than discarding a dog before even giving it a chance, I prefer to look at its potential. If you expect little from any animal, that is what you will get. Equally, buying a registereddog is no guarantee that it will be talented. A dog will only be as good as its handler. He is not ahunting dog because he has not been trained to be. Instead he is in training for Search and Rescue, and doing very well, particularly in the recovery of human remains.My two working dogs were also found in the pound. There is nothing more special than an animal that can save human life.

In his time off he is an excellent pet, which you seem to consider a disparaging term. Just consider how much time you spend hunting versus the amount of down time relaxing with the dog as a family pet.Temperament is key to a long-lasting, enjoyable relationship. Aggressive behaviour is no more acceptable than a lack of drive to work.To breed such dogs is to do the breed adisservice. Where is the sense in spending hours training a dog that will end up being euthanized for biting?

All hunting breeds were bred fortemperament as well as ability. To be an excellent working partner, a dog mustbe agood companion. Without companionship and mutual affection, there is no foundation for a working relationship or a desire to please. It is also the most rewarding part of owning any dog.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

all breeds have dog that will bite..

not trying to steer you away from setter but if you hunt ducks, no good..

i would get a SMALL lab..
setters are fine, but they shed hair bad inhome and burrs in woods....

gsp, i dont know much about them so cant offer opinion.....

dont let me steer you away from setter,only my opinion what i would do....

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

I can tell you, from MUCH experience with my English Setter, that they are the gentlest creatures you will find. Mine will allow my niece, who's 2 years old, to pet him and I know he wouldn't harm anyone. The only thing he gets aggressive towards is pheasants and basically any bird, plain and simple. Mine has hunted ducks with me as well.I don't hunt ducks in the typical areas(lakes etc.),but I would doubt if you could use them to retrieve from deep water. Mine is not afraid of water but would take a lot of training to be able to do that. I would say, just guessing, that GSPs are much better waterfowl dogs.

Setters are far more mild mannered than the GSPs and they have much nicer coats and are basically nicer to watch. They only complaint I have with them is that they are rather stubborn at times and do not retrieve easily. They shed like crazy as well, another consideration to keep in mind if you don't like hair on everything.

good luck with your choice. Get what you want. I don't think you'll be disapointed with the Setter though;)

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

Get what you want! My brother raises Setters and yes they hunt ducks. If they don't, my German Wirehaired Pointers ( I raise) will get them. They are an excellent upland dog. GSPs and Setters shed to much for my liking but I will hunt with either one.
Most problems with aggressive dogs is due to lack of socialization.
GOOD LUCK
WYOWIRES

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

Cara,

You make some good points in your post, however I disagree with this. A good hunting dog will be good, regardless of its handler. In fact, with bad handlers, a good hunting dog will be good despite his handler. I've seen it more than a few times when a guy shows up with a 12 month old pup and he has absolutely no idea what he's doing. Despite that, the pup goes out and does his job flawlessly.

kdvollmer - I agree with the sentiment that you should just get the dog you want. As long as you socialize it well, you won't have any major problems.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

i wish SOCIALIZATION was cure to biting problem, it isnt..
i and my close friend vet are seeing biting dogs more than we ever have and LABS too which is not norm..

here is what is happening,you have breeder that has litter of 10 pups,for various reasons there are at times 1 dog that no one wants as pup because it acts strange...
guess what they do with that pup, they raise him or her and breed it..

there is our SOCIALIZATION problem..then dog they breed it with my be same TYPE of dog from another litter..

some call these people BACKYARD breeders,i call it a dangerous way to make money....

sorry i got off topic....
get dog you like, i also like a setter and think they are better dog for grouse than my lab BUT FOR ALL AROUND HUNTING DOG, I LIKE lab..

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

That's a loaded question. No one has ever gotten a Field Champion from a shelter but there's been alot of good hunting dogs from the pound. How many times have you heard, "they surrendered her/him because the dog had just too much energy." or "his/her parents are hunting dogs but the original owner didn't hunt and theyjust didn't have room." Too many times a breeder will sell a dog to someone who is a non-hunter who doesn't realize what he just purchased.I've seen too many of those instances.

My suggestion: Don't go to the shelter. There are too many unknown variables in their makeup especially with a grown dog. You won't know how well it likes children unless you actually spend alot of time with it. Even if you get it from a rescue, they maysay, 'I have children...she's greatwith them" but they are not your children as your one year-old might decide pulling on the dogs ear or riding the dog like a horse just mightbe fun one day. Get apuppy then aleast youknowthe dog. Evenifthe dog doesn't like children when older, atleast he'll still see your children aspart of the pack and will usually defend them from strange dogs or strangers.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

Chevy vs Ford. We all can give opinions. Get whichever breed from the best breeder and train it as best as possible. Have you hunted over both breeds? If not, try to do so, or watch some trials etc. For example, I personally, enjoy hunting over an average pointer rather than a pro flusher. Hunting dogs are like cars, they both do the job, but the ride can be different.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

I've hunted over both, English Setters and GSP's. They are both great Bird dogs. i will have the chance in October to shoot bird over both dogs, side by side when I am home on leave to help make a decsion. My biggest concern though is still how does each do in the house. How are they with kids. I know the setter will shed more, and be more work in that respect. I have a 5 year old and my daughter will be just over 1 when I get the puppy.

Thanks again for the input.

kurt

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

I don't think it would be fair to say one breed is better in the house vs another. You have to judge each dog individually. I've seen Great Danes as gentle a butterflys and Yorkies that were terrors. You can expect both of your choices to have a lots of energy/ exercise needs. Obviously the hair maintenance is a minor difference. The GSP doesn't have the tail to sweep off the table either. Have you decided on sex? On a different aspect though, just keep in mind that a good hunting dog is expected to run through brush, thorns etc.(need to be "thick skinned") My own dogs (GSP's and Vizslas) weren't the gentlest walking around the kids, furnishings. I'm referring to physical handling, not disposition. In other words, your 1 year old could get bumped around. One side note; speaking from experience, there could be dominance challenges as well (between pup and child). But that's a different topic all together. Either breed can do fine indoors under proper supervision and training.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

if it were me on those 2 choices without knowing personelly on gsp but READING a lot on gsp,i would get a LEWELLIN SETTER..

e mail this guy at LYNNHILLSETTERS,he will tell you his opinion on setters....

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

I would have to wholeheartedly disagree with the comment that no good bird dog has come from a shelter. Mine was a shelter dog originally. He came from a breeder and was sold to an older man who had to give him up because he was "too hyper". I got him and had some problems for the first few months. He was completely timid and wouldn't train well nor show any signs of bird interest. I had a problem on my hands, as he was also gunshy, to an extreme. I had a problem house training him and hated the dog for the first 4 months to tell you the truth.

After the first 6 months, he overcame his problems. Through time and effort, he is now an aggressive, born hunter, who points well, stays close(for the most part), and is not gunshy in the least. He is housetrained extremely well and can stay indoors for up to 12 hours by himself without a problem. Most importantly, however, he knows me as his best friend and lives and breathes for me. This is true because he knows that I saved him and that I'm his one true friend.

Iknow that dogs hold those who treat them well in highest esteem. If you take a dog from a shelter and give him a home, a new life, and put the effort into his delicate training, I believe any dog can come out of their shell and be a hunter.

I was told by a dog trainer that my dog couldn't be trained. He was petrified of every noise, wouldn't eat, and you could see all his ribs. I am happy to have proved her wrong and accomplished a real challenge. Furthermore, I feel my dog is a better dog because of his past. He is still timid around certain people but is not fearful, so to speak. I would call it cautious. He will allow anyone to touch him with absolutely no problem(even 2 year olds). I think that his nature is more perfect that way than if he simply showed eagerness towards everything.

Shelter dogs simply take time. They are not lost causes!!!;)

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

I still wouldn't recommend going to a shelter for a hunting dog only because he has a one-year old around. If the kids are alittle older then I'd say no problem. With a shelter dog, you just don't how the dog will react under stress until you spend time with them.

We hada goldie we adopted that really didn't care for small children. He was fine around them but really could care less. Our neighbor had a german shepard in which he kept asa guard dog, vicious, constantly abused.Dog got loose one day attacked our goldie. We had justgrab them and pulled them apart, when the neighbors 5 year old inadvertantly came behind our goldie to pet it. Our dog thought it was being attacked again and turned quickly, teeth out. She ended up with 3 stiches on her chin. Well, in short, we paid for the medical bills, etc. the neighbor realized she shouldn't have approachedthedog fighting, etc. and wefinallysaid there were too many children and it could very well happen again. Wegave the dog to someone who didn't have any children and away from the shepard.

It could have ended up much nastier involvingthe courts but they were understanding as she approached the dogs while they were still fighting.

As to setter vs. gsp, bothcan be calmor hyper. I have owned a couple of setters and around the house they were alwayssomewhat mellow. Thequote "never met a stranger"seem to apply. The only other setters and GSPs i'vemet have always been in the 'field' and weremore interested in finding out what's out there.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

You don't know how any dog will react under stress. Even a dog from the best breeder will overreact at times. The best thing to do is to keep the two separated until you know the dog well. Once you know a dog you can really read them and know what they'll do and how they'll react.

If you get a dog from a shelter, you can feel like you helped an animal considerably instead of just buying a dog that you know would be fine just the same.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

Just look at the thread from the lady whose Lab puppy bit her daughter. Out of the five dogs we have had, the only one that has snapped is the one that came from a breeder. We have never had a problem with the 4 rescues, including moving one that had been hit by a car. She didn't so much as growl.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

It puzzles me as to why you would let one get hit by a car..[&:]

Mine has come from breeders and have had no one get bitten, alot of it is their upbringing. Some of it maybe from poorly bred dogs as well though..

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

I thought a fellow dog owner would be above such comments. Apparently I was mistaken. Shame on you.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

Why shame on me? I keep my dogs under my control at all times...

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The dog was not under my supervision at the time. It does not help to have salt rubbed into the wound.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

Sorry my appologies I did not know that...

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

For those of you that think that you can go to pound and get a good bird dog, you are sadly mistaken. I mght be ignorant to rescue dogs, but i know what a bird dog is unlike some of you.
As Mite would say "Some people should own dogs"
Some people should not give advice about bird dogs.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

Ouch daleh that's kinda harsh. True, chances are real low in getting a decent quality hunting dog from the pound. Another story, a woman with a youngenglish setter showed up at a large dog park the other day. The dog was probably around a year old or so. It ran fence line to fence line, easily 300-400 yards stopping to point once in awhile. I ask her about her dog. She told me she got it from a breeder of hunting dogs,maybe Seattle Setters. This pup was the last one and noone else wanted it and the breeder didn't want to sell it to them.The breeder told her itwas, "the best hunter out of the bunch."

Sad part is, the family are not hunters. Beautiful dog, good conformation, headup,straight 11 o'clock tail which probably grew into a 12 o'clock now. I told her to take it to a trainer to get it evaluated. Probably would make a good horseback dog. I would have liked to see the dog out in the open with no fences.

I don't know what happened to the dog but fortuneately or unfortuneately, they lived near the park and went there daily to let the dog run. If you could imagine that they didn't have the place, they'd put it up for adoption.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

No doubt, IF YOU ARE LUCKY, you can get a good dog at a pound. But think of it this way. Most responsible, reputable breeders have a checklist of things they expect from a potential buyer. AND, generally, these type of breeders ask a good ammount of money for their pups. Generally, the type of hunter/buyer who gets a good dog from one of these breeders isn't going to turn the dog over to a pound or shelter. This isn't a guaruntee that you will ALWAYS get a better dog from the responsible breeder. We are talking about animals. It just happens more often that you do.
Now, there are lots of the "backyard breeders that have given absolutly no thought to their breeding.
"Gee, I have a male and a femal dog, lets breed them."
Not even knowing if there are any health issues, and not bothering to check.
"Hey, we can sell the puppies for a couplle hundred bucks for some quick cash."
THESE are the dogs that usually end up in the pound. Nobody has tried to breed for a certain temperament, and activity level. AND THESE are the dogs that GENERALLY don't do as well hunting. I know, not always the case, but more times than not. They came from parents that don't hunt, and other backyard breeders. That isn't to say that you can't get a good bird dog from the backyard breeder, though you have no guaruntee. Most good breeders will give you a guaruntee that their pups will point, or retreive, ....etc something that the breed is known for.
NOW, with all that being said, you can find great dogs for family pets at the pound or shelter. Some of the best pets are the "heinz 57" dogs.

There will always be exceptions to this in all departments.


P.S.

Still debating the English Setter vs. the GSP.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

dont want to get off topic but you are right..

bad breeders always have 1 or 2 dogs they cant get rid of,WHY, because puppy is acting strange..
then they take that puppy and breed it with someone elses dog and maybe that dog is strange acting..

i believe this is where BITING raises its ugly head..
those breeders dont care,its all about MONEY.
then you have others that dont know any better and breed their dogs with friend knowing that it bites..

this is why i believe you have to get dog from GOOD BREEDER,even tho prices are higher....

i am going thru it right now with my dog, he bites when you least expect it but is getting better...
his mother bit and should have not been bred, breeder denies mother bites,this is what you are up against if you buy from BACKYARD breeder...

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

I recommend that you start training thechildren before you get a dog. Small kids and pups can get into trouble as pups see them as equals. Here's a link to a good article. You can get a quality family gun dog going through reputable breeders and breed rescue. Several years ago we homed 17 dogs when our friend, mentor and breeder of one (now 3 of our dogs) passed suddenly. You might look at a "started dog" this dog has had some training and just may not make it as a trial dog or for what the trainer/breeder may want. My last gun dog was a field trial washout. Check with the parent club of each breed (national club to locate a local breeder). Always buy a gun dog from field lines.
http://www.akc.org/pdfs/PBSAF2.pdf
http://www.akc.org/public_education/responsible_dog_owner.cfm#getready

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

*shakes head* You should know better than to encourage a backyard breeder.

As for the pound subject, it's rare but can happen. Dogs get lost or owner can't believe how hyper the dog is and gets rid of it.

Get a GSP. Who knows, you just may enjoy waterfowling alot. A good GSP can keep upwith a good english setter, so you won't be missing much. (Except when they catch wind of deer or other critters.)

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

I do enjoy shooting waterfowl, that is why i have a strong interest in the GSP. I know tha tthey will hunt upland like a setter. And since I livein the south, i don;'t need a lab or a chessie for the ducks, we just don't have the ice or the need for that kind of dog.

Talked to the breeder today. Looks like he is going to be breeding the GSP's this week. With some luck, pups will be ready right around Christmas time. I come home in April from the desert, so I will get a 4 month started pup. I know, not much is going to be done in 4 months time, but some anyhow.

I don't have the dam's pedigree in front of me right now, but here is the Sire's:

Sire : Old Hickory Smoke
He is a natural backer and retriever. Most of his puppies are the same way. His sire is the Great Champion General Norman and grand sire NFC Rawhide Clown. His dam is Fancy's Wild Child and his grand dam is the famous Fancy White Trash

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

I think we have got way off topic. My point was not that he should necessarily go to the pound to get himself a hunting dog; what I was trying to say was that despite having a horrible start in life, this particular dog is wonderful with children, and therefore I would not have any concerns about having a good GSP around them. Obviously it depends on the particular dog, and there are those who are willing to trade temperament for drive, but it is unfair to categorise GSPs as an aggressive breed or one that cannot make a good family companion as well as a working dog. Ultimately, it boils down to what behaviour you are willing to accept from it as a puppy and allow to continue into adulthood.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

many GSP bite..
very few SETTERS bite..
GSP can be aggressive in home..
SETTERS are not
only from what i am reading.

SETTERS are better bird dog than GSP..again only what i am reading....

best solution,gewt a SMALL LONG LEGGED LAB...

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

[/quote]

many GSP bite..
very few SETTERS bite..
GSP can be aggressive in home..
SETTERS are not
only from what i am reading.

SETTERS are better bird dog than GSP..again only what i am reading....

best solution,gewt a SMALL LONG LEGGED LAB...
[/quote]

Labs are great dogs, but base on wher I am living, and the hunting that I will be doing the most of, a Lab, IMO is notthe right dog for me.I live in the south, and I have seen labs run themselves almost to death in the warm weather.
I haven't seenso much that says that the GSP are so aggessive. The occasional comentin here, though most folks I have talked to say that theirs has been wonderful n the house and great hunters as well. I used to havea setter and she was a great dog. I have also hunted over GSP's and IMO opinion that is a tough statement to think that setters are better then GSP for a bird dog based on reading. I've talked to several people hat have had both and prefer the GSP. I can't base this on soley what i read (because I have found numerous articles online telling me that the GSP is a no aggresive wonderful dog in the house) but the experience of myself and others.And I have hunted over the GSP's and they far exceded most other dogs I have hunted over (labs, and Gordon Setters. Still a close call on the English Setters)If everything that I read said that they were not good with kids, or were aggersive, I wouldn't even consider it. But I have found more that says they are great family dogs. Now I am trying to get some info from people that have them, or have had both setters and GSP's for that last comparrison.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

I have read from another of your posts you were planing on getting a GSP. A friend of mine has one up at a bird farm and he likes it alot. He also has some teenage kids at home. They all get along fine. He has a Brittany there as wellwith no problems.

I do not go by everything I have read either, if a GPS fits your needs go for it. I also know if I went by everything I have read or listened to what everyone has told me I would not have been hunting with the Irish Setters either. As a good Irish is very easy to train, loyal, non agressive, and has been in the history books of upland hunting. Also noted to be able to hunt upland as well as waterfoul. The bottom line is you can get out of your dog what the breeders or trainers put into it, providing the dog has the capabilities. So IMO when getting any breed of hunting dog research is a must.. Good Luck to you on your GPS...

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

GSPs are by far the most popular breed in the North American Versatile Hunting Dog Assoc. (NAVHDA) - If that is the breed you are looking for contact the home office at NAVHDA.org. They have quite a bit of registry on many fine breeders to which I have judged many of their dogs.

I ahve yet to see one who growled at me as i checked teeth and all of that is what the chapters of NAVHDA in your area can help you as dog socialization is one thing all chapters stress.

The motto of NAVHDA is to help train you to train your own dog on both land and water before and after the shot - to conserve game.

JW

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

i am not trying to change your mind...go for dog you like no matter what i said i read,only info for you to think about....

last part about lab was a little humor as all know i like labs...

yes, labs do tire out quick in heat,for sure...

now, reading i do goes back about 6 years on lewellin setter and gsp..

setter also listens better than gsp,now dont jump on me. just what i read from people who have gsp /setter..

gsp is harder to train, only what i read..
gsp is better in home on hair....
both are great on birds..