RE: Which Dog to Get
 

I would agree with your statemnts there. I have heard that the GSP can be a little harder to train. I would also agreee, as I have stated in other posts taht they are both great on birds ( I guess that is why i have narrowed my search to these 2 :D:D) the shedding thing is somewhat important to my wife. She things my Basset Hound sheds alot. One of the other traits that I like a little better with the GSP is their inherent GUARD DOG traits. They tend to be more protective. A setter might bark at a stranger, but generally will do less to stop one. And, I have also heard that GSP are generally better for the occasional duck trip too than the setters. However, since I don't do as much duck hunting as I would like to, that is something that I can overlook.
See, I am trying to look at this inthe best way. I have thought alot about what I want from ,my dog. Just lust trying to get that last little insight on both breeds before I take home a puppy. (though, most likely, it will be a GSP)

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

I throw this in to really confuse you; you already owned a setter before so you already know the personality, training methods, etc. to owning a setter. You will most likely not need any professional advice if something comes up with a setter. On the other side, if you get a gsp, do you really know versatile training? If hunting and you come across a deer or raccoon, and the dog takes off, do you encourage it or supress it? (I've never owned one so I don't know.) Did I make your choice harder?

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

That doens't really confuse me. Sure, i have owned a setter, and it has been about 12-13 years now. I am going to be a but rusty one way or the other in the training department.I understhand the basics, though I can behonest enogh to say tha tI will be askng for some advice from my breedre and others that I know.I have a strong enough background and understanding that I think I can manage a GSP. As for other furry critters. I am not sure yet whether I would enecourage or discourage. I have talked to one guy who managed to get his GSP to where it would work the birds. Might take a short (20-30 yd exploratory snif) for that other scent, but was good about getting back to birds. That might present a challenge for me. But, there will be challenges for any breed. Just different.
this doesn't really make the decision harder. Ihave experience from a past setter. I am also a little older and have learned that although the setter is a great dog, there might be another out there that better suites ALL the needs. upland, waterfowl, companion, and family watch/guard dog. Seems that the GSP fills ALL these roles just a little better. The setter might have an advantage on upland, I don't really know. I have heard arguements both ways. But the GSP, from what I know will waterfowl for me, will make a great companion / pet, good with the family (all things that the setters do as well) and a guard dog. Just a little more family protective, and less coat maintenence. I've said it before, it is just wher i live and the huntig and locaiton i will hunt in that is dictating the type. If i was still up north, and did more cold weather waterfowl, and less upland, then a lab would e the dog. But that isn't the case.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

I discourage making a good hunting dog a guard dog, however some of todays setters are trained for drug and guard dogs as well. As I stated before it is what you train them for as well, as the type of training you preffer..

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

i only saw 1 GSP hunting for pheasants, he was so far out in front of his owner, owner was mad and blowing whistele etc..
i have friend who hasa GSP,he said he hunts grouse find BUT he said he gets way out to far and go after deer or raccoons..

i never heard that with LEWELLIN SETTER..

like MITE said, i think GSP will taker more training,just from what i read...

GSP looks like nice dog to me,one i saw pheasant hunting was scared to death of me,i guess i am ugly?

but,my next dog will be a LEWELLIN SETTER ,small,real birdy, dont bark and good with kids etc..
hunt CLOSE,not as much hair as the ENGLISH SETTER ..

so, if you want a dog that covers LOTS of territory, get GSP..
if you want dog that hunts close,get LEWELLIN SETTER...

me, my days of running after dog wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy out there flushing birds out of sight are history, thats for young legs and days when no one shot at your dog..

today i want a dog that will hunt close and hunt what i train them for and that is 2 dogs to me, SMALL LONG LEGGED FIELD AMERICAN LAB OR LEWELLIN SETTER...

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

A GSP will not take more training; you will just be focusing on different issues than you would with a Setter.

I think you'll end up with a GSP, but you might want to look into getting one that comes from a breeder who follows the German breeding methodology. With all the damage that the AKC has done to the GSP, unless you already know the breeder you want to work with, finding a good DK that has the greatest probability of meeting your expectations is going to be much easier than getting a GSP.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

I know that there is alot of thought into the breeding here. Dave might breed one litter a year of GSP. The Sire comes from a long long line of champion field trial dogs. As well, I have talked to a GSP trial judge that is familiar with the lines as well. I am confident that I am getting a dog that has the inherent drive, and skills to give me a good BASE to start from. I know that blood lines are not everything. I fully understand that, however, IMO, it lays good groundwork to start from.


To Phil From Main
It is not my intention to make my bird dog a guard dog. From what I have read and researched, (I now this isn't true will all dogs...etc) the GSP more commonly then the setter are more weary of strangers. They are much more guarded, and tend to be more protective of their humans.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

Small: Yes, well mine is.

Real birdy: Yes, very much so.

Don't bark: Hell, no! Her enemy are cats. She'll go off, real crazy when she see's one. It's the chase in her. She once chased a cat under a car, the cat turned on her, and she tucked her tail and cried like the world was ending. The cat decided it was time to leave and sure enough, dog turned and gave chase, barking all the way.

Good with kids: She loves them (not tastes like chicken sort of way.)

Actually, there are a few breeders that are breeding for field trials. Big runners. But the majority of them are fairly close working. I've seen two young Llewellins in the field and they worked fairly the same distance as mine. They also have a tendancy to pace themselves morethan an english setter. My first e.s. ran her energy off in few hours then settled in to her range. My Llew will burn energy off much quicker but still be much more lively for the rest of the day.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

get a pointing lab

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

why do you say that?more detail would be nice.......

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

i saw GSP working today,boy, did that dog cover territory,he covered more territory in 3 minutes than me and my lab cover in 30 minutes...

the problem i saw is 2 things, hunts way out too far forme,and owner could not stop him,he hunted..
so, i can see why they put those collars on GSP,POINTERS..
i would be scared to death here in big woods of pa. with ANY dog that hunts way out like i saw that GSP today do..

my lab hunts 30 yards max,hey, maybe a GSP can be made to hunt close, i dont know,maybe its all training BUT thats the 3rd GSP i saw and ALL hunted way to far out in front and would not come back close to owner..

again, not trying to change your mind ,only some info to think about..

all programs on tv, i never see a GSP in any of programs hunting..

its always,LAB, SETTER, POINTER,BEAGLE,SPRINGER..

i have a friend that likes BRITTANY but you dont see those on tv also,but he swears by brittanys...

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

When you say way too far, how far is that? Why would you be scared to death about this? The further the dog is from you, the less ground you will have to cover. Just walk on the path and wait for the beeper to start beeping. I don't like the dog to range much further than 200 yards, but that's just because further than that in deep woods, it becomes tough to hear the beeper.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

i dont use beeper,i guess if you could hear your beeper,thats different story..
grouse here in no.pa dont sit and flush,they run then flush..
if your dog is over 30 yds,kiss grouse goodbye...

scared because of other hunters ,coyotes when they get dog alone is bad...

in fields hunting pheasants, i would not be scared at all...

i watched springers hunting pheasants last year,they ranged out about 50 yds,up went birds, boom, boom..

no bird...

just about every dog i see is too far out in front of hunter to get a decent shot at bird,other than LAB, they seem to hunt real close to you...

i assume that beeper tells you where your dog is,how do you know he is onto a bird if you cant see dog.....

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

Thanks for the clarification Sproulman. I hear your concern re yotes and other hunters.

Different beepers aren't always exactly the same, but fundamentally when they are on they will beep every 10 seconds or so. Then when the dog goes on point (or sometimes when they take a dump), they will beep every 2 seconds.

I've been successful with runners by resending the dog after searching the area he went on point. Early season, I'll lose some birds for sure; but once the dog figures out the game, we do pretty well. For upland game, we hunt ruffed grouse, woodcock and showshoe hare. It's fun because it forces me to read the dogs signals and how his behavior differs for each game. It also requires the dog to take a different approach depending on what he smells. It amazes me he's able to do it. It's an absolute blast.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

Thank you

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

I've always had GSPs, My Stepdad is 100% setter, and my Grandpa was the same with pointers. I've hunted over all three extensively. My stepdads last setter was one of the finest birdogs I've ever hunted over, but I still love the GSP. My current one is vicious, she sleeps under the covers cuddling with my wife. I have to fight to keep her out of the hot tub, and she loves my kids unconditionally. I've found that I have better luck getting GSPs to listen to what I tell them to do and doing it. My experience is also that there isn't a better birddog in the water. The long coat on the Setters drive me crazy with all the cockleburrs we have around where I hunt.

To each his own. I hunted over great dogs of all varieties, and they all have their good points and bad points. I've also hunted over junk of all varieties. Mean dogs are usually a product of their raising not a product of their breeding. None of my GSPs has ever offered to bite anyone. Whichever one you choose, go to a reputable breeder and you will probably be happy.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

can you get beeper that only beeps say every 30 seconds..
that would be nice for my lab in heavy brush and me and might keep another hunter from shooting at my dog for coyote...

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

i saw GSP on tv last night hunting with LAB..
that dog did find and was good hunter..
the only thing i noticed is GSP would not retrieve bird, he sniffed it..

the LAB went over, found bird and brought it to owner..

myonly complaint with my LAB is he gets tired after 2 hrs..
those GSP,SETTERS,POINTERS seem to hunt a lot longer..

people say my dog is not in condition, that could be but i train him year round..
LABS in my opinion were not made for long days in field in heat..
their coats are just to thick..

thats where the GSP. SETTERS, POINTERS have edge..

thats why i hunt early in mornings with my lab, he cant take afternoon heat in oct....

but lab hunts real close and i like that and he loks for me, not me for him..

GSP i see seem to only be interested in HUNTING..hey, thats great but a little worry for us in WOODS..

my beagles years ago were same, they HUNTED, they did not care where i was at,they hunted..
LAB does not do this, lab will hunt but every few minutes, he is looking for you..
other breeds DONT look for you, they hunt..i feel a GSP is one that does that..
beeper thing could be your answer, i have no experience in beepers but i may look into one for my lab so it helps him not get shot at in woods....
you

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

My dog does that. She'll run out to about 100-150 yards then look where I'm at. Every once in awhile, she disappears and when I call her, she pops right in front of me. The grass is usually shoulder height to her or sometimes alittle higher so she's usually close by hopping over the grass. In open field where the grass is low, she'll run out a ways.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

i see you have LEWELLIN SETTER..
i almost had puppy from LYNNHILL setters but i felt that 1 dog is all i can handle now..
my lab stays with me in woods but is not great grouse dog like your setter but he does it all.
too expensive to have 2 dogs now, vet bills are awful and dog food etc..
not cheap anymore...

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

No sure about that. I don't think that either Dogtra nor Tritronics makes one, but you could check the other manufactureres. Out of curiosity, why every 30 seconds vs 5-10 seconds?

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

30 seconds is a long time at GSP speed! One thing I didn't mention is the destructive side if they don't get enough exercise. Obviously it varies from dog to dog, but mine will start chewing on things if he misses one walk. I've never seen a breed with such high energy, not even a Border Collie. He seems to love running just for the sake of running.

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

i only want it so hunter will not shoot at my dog for coyote..
i dont like a lot of noise in woods when hunting and i know my lab is not more than 30 yds in front of me,actually maybe i should wear beeper,hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

you are right!
i only saw 2 GSP hunting pheasants and all were covering territory WAYYYYYYYYYYYY,out in front of owners..
man, what a dog for covering territory..

i would put a GPS on one of those babies if i was hunting nor. central pa stategamelands.

i would be scared to death with GSP in the type of hunting for grouse i do here..

i want a dog no farther away from me than 30 yds max and 1 that looks for me..
if GSP can do that, i want one....

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

Have you ever seen an Irish Setter? Faster than you could believe and completely full of energy that lasts and lasts. Most of their running speed is from 15 to 18 miles per hour and that is a pace they set. Running at full tilt is a question on the speed. 1 of mine passed my wife in the car at 35 miles per hour on a blast of speed after it got loose on her once. Now she does it the easy way and just go outside and opens the car door. Within a few minutes it will be setting in the car waiting for a ride...

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

oh yes, 36 years ago neighbor had 2 irish setters and they would fly hunting birds at highschool....

what difference between dogs, my lab hunts slow and close and setters,pointers,gsp cover territory....

you have to be young withsome dogs to keep up..

RE: Which Dog to Get
 

I was raised with English Setters, so for a bird (pointing) dog, I'll always have a soft spot for a setter.

I have water dogs now.. as I live by the coast and not in the mountains... so Goldens do me well now.