retrieverman

I have trained 4 Labs using Water Dog as my basis and have been very happy with the results. For getting a dog started, I don't think there is a better book, but I will say that there are some "newer" techniques that Wolter did have during the 60's that will take a dog further and make a more useful dog.

losthwy

If you want to teach theonly basics, then "Water Dog" will probably work. If you have any desire to end up with a dog that is capable of doing more advance skills such as what is needed for Master Hunter or QAA. Then you should use a program that will get you there. It all depends on your goals. If what you want is a dog that can mark triples with factors out to and past 100yd, steady to the shot, run difficult100 yd+ blinds, won't switch, ignore diversions, take all casts, won't run the bank,then there are materials out there that can accomplish that. Water dog is not one of them. Materials such as Smartwork and Lardy are complete programs with flow charts and specific drills to teach all the skills needed for more advance work. I would suggest to go watch a Master Hunter test or a field trial to see for yourself what kind of work a retriever is capable of. Wolters material can train a meat dog if that's all you want. But other materials will do a better job for even that. And give your dog the foundation to takehim further if you choose to.

workhorse

Lost Highway, I need to point out that I mentioned early that my pup is not being trained for any trial work. Also, you guys keep saying how outdated Wolters is, and you keep going back to "Water Dog". You should probably get more familiar with all of his works before you lump them together. Again, I am using "Game Dog", his most recent book, last revision being 1995. In it he discusses forced fetching, and electronic collars, but feels that for a high quality "hunting " dog, such types of training aren't required. The training he takes you through is not basic by any means. There is extensive work on upland training, hand signals and casting, and marking long retrieves. Please read the book. If at the end, you don't think that a dog trained that way will be anything more than an average hunting dog, then we just don't see eye to eye.

BlueRidgeRetrievers

Information taken from another website on Richard A. Wolters.... Referred to in the following alot as RAW....

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As regarding Richard A. Wolters, here are a couple of more observations about him from a retriever website:

"Wolters was an Insurance Salesman (or was it Real Estate?) that had a knack for writing & promoting, not a dog trainer. I can also give you the name of the Dog Trainer that rented him a kennel for "Tar" and straightened out Wolter's screw-ups."

"RAW never trained a dog before he wrote Water Dog. He sat down with Auggie Belmont, Peggy Long and some others and picked their brains to get some of the stuff he used in the book. His methods are by and large as outdated as letting a barber pull teeth."

" RAW NEVER got so much as a green ribbon in AKC competition. He was a writer and salesman not a dog man. Before he wrote Water Dog, he closeted himself on Long Island with Augie and Lousie Belmont and a bunch of other savvy dog folks and picked their brains." For those who don't know, a green ribbon refers to a Judges' Award of Merit (JAM) in the field trial community. It is a recognition that the dog did some recognizable work, but not good enough to place. It gets the dog not one step closer to a FC or AFC title, and Wolters never got one." So, that he may have run dogs in field trials, without more, is meaningless. You have a 6 month old AKC retriever? You can run them too.

I understand that RAW was one of the founders of NAHRA and that, apparently, came about because AKC did not want a gun dog stake in field trials (vis-a-vis hunt tests). However, I don't know how many tests he ever ran. From what I could find, he apparently did judge NAHRA tests some, but I don't know if that was beginning dogs or finished dogs.

RAW's first books came along when the average hunter was looking for some guidance. Heck, I've got two of his books that I bought some 35 years ago, 3 if you count the history book, I guess. The problem is that they were not very good. Unfortunately, too, his books started showing up around the same time as a really good book, "Training Retrievers to Handle" by D.L. and Ann Walters. Unfortunate name confusion. Since RAW's books seeming covered all of training, guess who got the emphasis? But, as stated above, much of what he says is about as outdated as asking a barber to pull teeth.

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tatonka

I think pretty much any of the training books from different authors will result in a decent hunting dog if you follow the program prescribed. The thing I disagree with the most with Wolters theories is the 49 day deal (get your pup exactly on the 49th day....not a day before, a day after, at 8 weeks or whatever). That's just a theory and it holds no water whatsoever.