Virginia Dog Hunting
02-23-2008, 11:05 AM
#141
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 72
RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
ORIGINAL: deerdogdude
why thank you.
But shooting a deer dog is????? Thats backasward..... (SORRY NOT EDUCATED)
why thank you.
But shooting a deer dog is????? Thats backasward..... (SORRY NOT EDUCATED)
I don't necessarily agree with shooting the dog, What other options does this hunter have?
02-23-2008, 01:08 PM
#142
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: VIRGINIA
Posts: 146
RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
I personally do not have the guys turn out on my property, Next to it?, yes. Im not talking about the guys who ruin your hunt on purpose, But make sure thats what they are doing. I had a guy shoot one of my buddies dog cause he THOUGHT he turned out on him on purpose, He did not though. The guy never talked to any of us saying he had a problem.(NOT THAT WE WERE DOING ANYTHING WRONG) he got pissed cause we turn out on the piece he is waiting for deer to come out. thing is that it is our piece. For those who KNOW FOR A FACT that guys are running your land and you have talked to them then I dont know. whip his as*, I just hate to see a innocent dog get killed. I guess if you are 110% sure that its being done on purpose than I dont know. But if you kill a dog in my opinion your no better than he is. I know if someone kills a dog of mine on the assumption I turned out on his land than I would make it a point to try to ruin every hunt he had. Like I said Im not in your situation (everyday?) I posted before that I actually call a still hunter around a piece we hunt the night before to let him know we will be out there the next day. He can either bring his shotgun or take a chance. He seems to be happy with that.
maybe buy a deer dog of your own and run your dog across their piece all summer and fall, see how they like it????
maybe buy a deer dog of your own and run your dog across their piece all summer and fall, see how they like it????
02-24-2008, 10:47 AM
#143
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Northern Neck VA
Posts: 465
RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
I dont know the exact code, but I do know that killing a dog is a felony in VA. So if your saying that it is the only action you have left to take, (shoot a dog that is doing what is natural and what his OWNER directs him to do, remember the owner/handler is the one who decides where to turn out, not the dogs that decide he let me out of the box here) is to commit a crime, then like deerdogdude said you are no better, in fact those actions are worse. What if you finally snap some day and decide to kill a dog, lets say the dog actually was not turned out on your property, he was actually let out a few miles down the road and happen to get past the standers and continue until he crossed your path at which point you drew a bead on him and decide to take out your anger on the animal.. well lets say that when you walk out to your truck later on that day there is a truck sitting there with a dog box and you think to yourself finally I will get to give them a bit of my mind and tell them what is what.. well when you get there and get ready to throw the tracking collar off the dog to the guy in the truck, a young kid gets out.when this kid looks at his dad and says dad why does he have the collar off of brownie (dogs name)? As you begin your rant about you being at the end of your rope with dog hunters and you taking matters into yoru own hands on your land the little girl starts to weep then sobbing and crying uncontrolably as she starts to let out that that was her dog, one she had raised from a puppy and she fed and cleaned it everyday. Her father explains to you how she saves her money from her allowance to take care of its needs etc. Then explains to you that the dog was turned out 3 or 4 miles away on Smith RD on Mr. Jones' property and unfortunatly had gotten past the standers. They tracked the dog to yoru property and saw that there was a truck parked there, so not wanting to mess up anyone they decide to sit there and wait to see they could get her dog even though they know by law they can, they are respectful of others and this is where this situation picks up with you walking out to your truck.
Stop and think how you would feel in that situation? How would you feel if that was yor child and their pet that they took care of? Stop and think that the one time you decide to inact backwods justice this happens.
Now I will say that this may not be the situation and that you may have a problem all the time with dogs, in factthere is the chance that it will never happen like that but there is always a chance that in all your problems that brownie will come into your view..just stop and think before you kill a dog.
I understand your anger at having early season hunts ruined as I spend alot of time and money invested in my bow hunting things that go along with it and yes having it disturbed by someone running dogs out of season gtes my goat but I would not kill a dog to resolve it. Besides the fact it is a felony.
Justin
Stop and think how you would feel in that situation? How would you feel if that was yor child and their pet that they took care of? Stop and think that the one time you decide to inact backwods justice this happens.
Now I will say that this may not be the situation and that you may have a problem all the time with dogs, in factthere is the chance that it will never happen like that but there is always a chance that in all your problems that brownie will come into your view..just stop and think before you kill a dog.
I understand your anger at having early season hunts ruined as I spend alot of time and money invested in my bow hunting things that go along with it and yes having it disturbed by someone running dogs out of season gtes my goat but I would not kill a dog to resolve it. Besides the fact it is a felony.
Justin
02-24-2008, 03:48 PM
#144
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 72
RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
ORIGINAL: eng40sqd
I dont know the exact code, but I do know that killing a dog is a felony in VA. So if your saying that it is the only action you have left to take, (shoot a dog that is doing what is natural and what his OWNER directs him to do, remember the owner/handler is the one who decides where to turn out, not the dogs that decide he let me out of the box here) is to commit a crime, then like deerdogdude said you are no better, in fact those actions are worse. What if you finally snap some day and decide to kill a dog, lets say the dog actually was not turned out on your property, he was actually let out a few miles down the road and happen to get past the standers and continue until he crossed your path at which point you drew a bead on him and decide to take out your anger on the animal.. well lets say that when you walk out to your truck later on that day there is a truck sitting there with a dog box and you think to yourself finally I will get to give them a bit of my mind and tell them what is what.. well when you get there and get ready to throw the tracking collar off the dog to the guy in the truck, a young kid gets out.when this kid looks at his dad and says dad why does he have the collar off of brownie (dogs name)? As you begin your rant about you being at the end of your rope with dog hunters and you taking matters into yoru own hands on your land the little girl starts to weep then sobbing and crying uncontrolably as she starts to let out that that was her dog, one she had raised from a puppy and she fed and cleaned it everyday. Her father explains to you how she saves her money from her allowance to take care of its needs etc. Then explains to you that the dog was turned out 3 or 4 miles away on Smith RD on Mr. Jones' property and unfortunatly had gotten past the standers. They tracked the dog to yoru property and saw that there was a truck parked there, so not wanting to mess up anyone they decide to sit there and wait to see they could get her dog even though they know by law they can, they are respectful of others and this is where this situation picks up with you walking out to your truck.
Stop and think how you would feel in that situation? How would you feel if that was yor child and their pet that they took care of? Stop and think that the one time you decide to inact backwods justice this happens.
Now I will say that this may not be the situation and that you may have a problem all the time with dogs, in factthere is the chance that it will never happen like that but there is always a chance that in all your problems that brownie will come into your view..just stop and think before you kill a dog.
I understand your anger at having early season hunts ruined as I spend alot of time and money invested in my bow hunting things that go along with it and yes having it disturbed by someone running dogs out of season gtes my goat but I would not kill a dog to resolve it. Besides the fact it is a felony.
Justin
I dont know the exact code, but I do know that killing a dog is a felony in VA. So if your saying that it is the only action you have left to take, (shoot a dog that is doing what is natural and what his OWNER directs him to do, remember the owner/handler is the one who decides where to turn out, not the dogs that decide he let me out of the box here) is to commit a crime, then like deerdogdude said you are no better, in fact those actions are worse. What if you finally snap some day and decide to kill a dog, lets say the dog actually was not turned out on your property, he was actually let out a few miles down the road and happen to get past the standers and continue until he crossed your path at which point you drew a bead on him and decide to take out your anger on the animal.. well lets say that when you walk out to your truck later on that day there is a truck sitting there with a dog box and you think to yourself finally I will get to give them a bit of my mind and tell them what is what.. well when you get there and get ready to throw the tracking collar off the dog to the guy in the truck, a young kid gets out.when this kid looks at his dad and says dad why does he have the collar off of brownie (dogs name)? As you begin your rant about you being at the end of your rope with dog hunters and you taking matters into yoru own hands on your land the little girl starts to weep then sobbing and crying uncontrolably as she starts to let out that that was her dog, one she had raised from a puppy and she fed and cleaned it everyday. Her father explains to you how she saves her money from her allowance to take care of its needs etc. Then explains to you that the dog was turned out 3 or 4 miles away on Smith RD on Mr. Jones' property and unfortunatly had gotten past the standers. They tracked the dog to yoru property and saw that there was a truck parked there, so not wanting to mess up anyone they decide to sit there and wait to see they could get her dog even though they know by law they can, they are respectful of others and this is where this situation picks up with you walking out to your truck.
Stop and think how you would feel in that situation? How would you feel if that was yor child and their pet that they took care of? Stop and think that the one time you decide to inact backwods justice this happens.
Now I will say that this may not be the situation and that you may have a problem all the time with dogs, in factthere is the chance that it will never happen like that but there is always a chance that in all your problems that brownie will come into your view..just stop and think before you kill a dog.
I understand your anger at having early season hunts ruined as I spend alot of time and money invested in my bow hunting things that go along with it and yes having it disturbed by someone running dogs out of season gtes my goat but I would not kill a dog to resolve it. Besides the fact it is a felony.
Justin
I would not let my "pet" run wild. My dogs are trained to stay within sight of me and to come when called. They know the advantage of this. They will get their food and water and lots of love and praise, but if they do not come when called, they get their butts spanked. Training is a simple process of repetition along with praise and reward, or discapline.
It is a valient attempt to counter my question with a question, however the fact remains that my original question has yet to be answered satisfactorily. Somehow it alway get turned to a "well.....how about me" thing. I started it, someone answer my question, then I will answer yours. That's fair.
02-24-2008, 06:06 PM
#145
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: VIRGINIA
Posts: 146
RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
NO! IF YOU SHOOT A DOG YOU ARE A COWARD!, NO IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT DOGHUNTER'S HAVE MORE RIGHTS! I DONT KNOW WHAT TO TELL YA....SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE ALREADY MADE UP YOUR MIND.
didnt mean to put it in all caps.... caps lock was on.
didnt mean to put it in all caps.... caps lock was on.
02-24-2008, 06:12 PM
#146
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Northern Neck VA
Posts: 465
RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
deepzak,
I will say that it is not right for anyone to shoot a dog that is not up to their standards or the older ones. If I dont sell a dog when he doesnt suit me then I find him a home, I have placed a number of dogs with people whom have established a loving relationship with them such as I had and have with all my dogs, I feel that they are part of my family and so do my kids. I do not look at them as a tool as some do. I will agree that looking at them as a tool and thinking of them as disposable is not acceptable. I will actually stop and pick up any breed of dog I see that is hanging around a road way or in the woods. If there is a collar I make sure to contact the owner to get the dog back to them. If there is no collar and the dog is in good health I call the local shelters/animal control to see if they have a lost report on file to find the owner, I have also placed ads in papers to loacte the owner. There have been occasions where I take the animal to the vet to see if it is chipped. If I have exhausted all possible options to locate the owner I either find a home or place it with someone who fosters them. If the dog is in poor shop and obvisously dropped then I try to nurse it back to health and either keep it or find it a home. Now I am only one person so I do not make a difference but this is who I am and what I do.
You do not have to explain to me your thoughts on proper training for dogs. I have trained many different breeds and have owned/own many different breeds, not only large hounds but pointers, retreivers and tracking dogs (search and rescue and hopefully in the next year or two will be working with service dogs for the disabled and or cadaver dogs if I can finish the training program). I know a little about dog training and handling, not saying that I am a expert, but I take it seriously.
Someone please share a fair and equitable (to both parties involved) solution. If a hunter, hunting on private land and has already talked to the dog runners who have then blown him off, is continually having deer run off the property and his/her hunt destroyed by those practices. What is that person to do? I know it's coming, but everyone here knows that the GW's really can't do anything when the "the dogs can't read" excuse is thrown out....and you know it will be. So help me out here, what is that person supposed to do? Give up their hunt? Is the dog runners right to run more valuable than the stand/still hunters right to hunt?
I don't necessarily agree with shooting the dog, What other options does this hunter have?
The above in the red is your post. I will try to give MY answers/suggestions to your questions..
1. If you have already exhausted all attempts at discussing the issue with the offending parties, and by this maybe offering to meet in a middle ground solution, such as if they stop "fox" hunting during archery and bp then maybe give one or two guys/gals of your approval the right to get their dogs during the regular season off your property. This would be if you were not there hunting, and maybe give them a contact numbe that you are readily at such as a cell and have them let you know when they need to go in, or if your in there they could call you to see if it would be ok to come in and pickthem up so as long not to mess you up. ~ (mind you this is only a suggestion, I am not saying that it would work in your circumstance)
2. If you have not made any head way talking to them, then try talking to the landowners on which they hunt, explain to them the problems you are having and see if the landowner is open to trying to help you get the problem under control (who knows you could end up with more hunting ground if they dont stop and the landowner gets wind, most landowners dont want any issues and want to keep the peace with the neighboring landowners/tenants (also if you are not the landowner them maybe see if the landowner will speak to the neighboring ones for you as well)
3. I know this may not be the most viable one but if it works then it could very be a end to some of your grief. The problem with LEO is that they either have to witness the act or have proof that it was a malicious intent before they can take any legal action. Have you thought about taking a little time and putting some of your hunting skills to use and trying to get a video of these guys who are acting illegally? Most people are creatures of habbit so I am sure it would not be to hard to pattern them and figure out what or where to set up to get some actual proof to show LEO. Once you have proof start with the Conservation Police and the Local authorities, if that doesnt do anything go a little higher on the ladder and see what that gets you. If someone is doing something illegal then it needs to be brought to light.
You asked for answers for you question and I came up with some I thought would be workable from one extreme to another. I am not saying this will be the resolve for youthey aremy thoughts though.
I almost forgot this one... NO I mean NO sportsmen/womens right to enjoy the outdoors legally is any more or less important than another (this means that the legal houndsmen has as much right to hunt in the legal manner he likes and enjoy it as well as the non hound hunter enjoying his legal means of hunting as well, and with everything in life people will always disagree on who to do something but as long as they try to reach a common ground peacefully and legally then great but when there is backwoods justice enacted then it needs to be stopped and yes I know that both sides partake in this style of I am going to fix it myself attitude and all it is doing is hurting all the rest of the legal hunters (all kinds) when we fight amongst ourselves)
Justin
I will say that it is not right for anyone to shoot a dog that is not up to their standards or the older ones. If I dont sell a dog when he doesnt suit me then I find him a home, I have placed a number of dogs with people whom have established a loving relationship with them such as I had and have with all my dogs, I feel that they are part of my family and so do my kids. I do not look at them as a tool as some do. I will agree that looking at them as a tool and thinking of them as disposable is not acceptable. I will actually stop and pick up any breed of dog I see that is hanging around a road way or in the woods. If there is a collar I make sure to contact the owner to get the dog back to them. If there is no collar and the dog is in good health I call the local shelters/animal control to see if they have a lost report on file to find the owner, I have also placed ads in papers to loacte the owner. There have been occasions where I take the animal to the vet to see if it is chipped. If I have exhausted all possible options to locate the owner I either find a home or place it with someone who fosters them. If the dog is in poor shop and obvisously dropped then I try to nurse it back to health and either keep it or find it a home. Now I am only one person so I do not make a difference but this is who I am and what I do.
You do not have to explain to me your thoughts on proper training for dogs. I have trained many different breeds and have owned/own many different breeds, not only large hounds but pointers, retreivers and tracking dogs (search and rescue and hopefully in the next year or two will be working with service dogs for the disabled and or cadaver dogs if I can finish the training program). I know a little about dog training and handling, not saying that I am a expert, but I take it seriously.
Someone please share a fair and equitable (to both parties involved) solution. If a hunter, hunting on private land and has already talked to the dog runners who have then blown him off, is continually having deer run off the property and his/her hunt destroyed by those practices. What is that person to do? I know it's coming, but everyone here knows that the GW's really can't do anything when the "the dogs can't read" excuse is thrown out....and you know it will be. So help me out here, what is that person supposed to do? Give up their hunt? Is the dog runners right to run more valuable than the stand/still hunters right to hunt?
I don't necessarily agree with shooting the dog, What other options does this hunter have?
The above in the red is your post. I will try to give MY answers/suggestions to your questions..
1. If you have already exhausted all attempts at discussing the issue with the offending parties, and by this maybe offering to meet in a middle ground solution, such as if they stop "fox" hunting during archery and bp then maybe give one or two guys/gals of your approval the right to get their dogs during the regular season off your property. This would be if you were not there hunting, and maybe give them a contact numbe that you are readily at such as a cell and have them let you know when they need to go in, or if your in there they could call you to see if it would be ok to come in and pickthem up so as long not to mess you up. ~ (mind you this is only a suggestion, I am not saying that it would work in your circumstance)
2. If you have not made any head way talking to them, then try talking to the landowners on which they hunt, explain to them the problems you are having and see if the landowner is open to trying to help you get the problem under control (who knows you could end up with more hunting ground if they dont stop and the landowner gets wind, most landowners dont want any issues and want to keep the peace with the neighboring landowners/tenants (also if you are not the landowner them maybe see if the landowner will speak to the neighboring ones for you as well)
3. I know this may not be the most viable one but if it works then it could very be a end to some of your grief. The problem with LEO is that they either have to witness the act or have proof that it was a malicious intent before they can take any legal action. Have you thought about taking a little time and putting some of your hunting skills to use and trying to get a video of these guys who are acting illegally? Most people are creatures of habbit so I am sure it would not be to hard to pattern them and figure out what or where to set up to get some actual proof to show LEO. Once you have proof start with the Conservation Police and the Local authorities, if that doesnt do anything go a little higher on the ladder and see what that gets you. If someone is doing something illegal then it needs to be brought to light.
You asked for answers for you question and I came up with some I thought would be workable from one extreme to another. I am not saying this will be the resolve for youthey aremy thoughts though.
I almost forgot this one... NO I mean NO sportsmen/womens right to enjoy the outdoors legally is any more or less important than another (this means that the legal houndsmen has as much right to hunt in the legal manner he likes and enjoy it as well as the non hound hunter enjoying his legal means of hunting as well, and with everything in life people will always disagree on who to do something but as long as they try to reach a common ground peacefully and legally then great but when there is backwoods justice enacted then it needs to be stopped and yes I know that both sides partake in this style of I am going to fix it myself attitude and all it is doing is hurting all the rest of the legal hunters (all kinds) when we fight amongst ourselves)
Justin
02-24-2008, 09:28 PM
#147
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 72
RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
eng, My hats off to you, I give you much applause. Someone with the testicular fortitude to actually answer a question with a well thought out answer and not just excuses.
You must be a stand up guy, one of the good ones. Thank you!
I hadalready determined that I am going to give up a few days of hunting just to get these guys on video this year. It's sad that I have to miss hunting opportunities to ensure that the law is able to do it's job, but I guess that just the way life is.
I agree, I do not want to see anyone loose the way they hunt, but I also do not want to loose the way I hunt. I will say that if there is something that is giving hunters a bad name, and it refuses to change, maybe it's time to cut it off. Even a doctor will sacrifice a toe to save a foot, or a limb to save a life. I hope it doesn't come to this! Let's clean the wound and keep a bandage on it so we don't loose a limb!
You must be a stand up guy, one of the good ones. Thank you! I hadalready determined that I am going to give up a few days of hunting just to get these guys on video this year. It's sad that I have to miss hunting opportunities to ensure that the law is able to do it's job, but I guess that just the way life is.
I agree, I do not want to see anyone loose the way they hunt, but I also do not want to loose the way I hunt. I will say that if there is something that is giving hunters a bad name, and it refuses to change, maybe it's time to cut it off. Even a doctor will sacrifice a toe to save a foot, or a limb to save a life. I hope it doesn't come to this! Let's clean the wound and keep a bandage on it so we don't loose a limb!
02-25-2008, 08:44 AM
#148
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,425
RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
We have 3 farms in eastern NC and have had problems with dog hunters for over 30 years...Talking to the Pres of the dog club did no good, talking to the Warden did no good...What we have done is pattern the clubs and then make sure we have hunters there when they drop dogs off beside our farms and kill the deer as they come through...It doesn't take them long to pick up the dogs and move after this happens....
02-28-2008, 07:03 PM
#150
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: Virginia Dog Hunting
ORIGINAL: deerdogdude
why thank you. But shooting a deer dog is????? Thats backasward..... (SORRY NOT EDUCATED)
why thank you.
But shooting a deer dog is????? Thats backasward..... (SORRY NOT EDUCATED)
At what point is a dog no longer a dog and considered a feral animal?