RE: Running Dogs In VA
 

lol behunting...A pothunter is a person who does not use dogs but hunts near where dogs are being run to geta chance atkilling a deer jumped or run by dogs. It used to be so bad, that these pothunters would cut off standers who were actually participating in the drive. Anyone who would tell me that they would not shoot a big buckjust because dogswere running it is a liar. Pothunters still exist and in force. They just never admit it.

If you own property next to state land or hunt club leased land, it is safe to say that without those drives, the deer would stay in their safe havens and never dare to show their face during daylight hours anyway. Remember, these deer have been run by dogs for centuries. They have adapted to the practice and locate themselves accordingly. Once everyone has their wish and dog hunting is gone from Virginia, not only will the harvest drop dramatically, but the long term effect on the deer herd could become drastic.
What effects could HD play on an undisturbed and unhunted deer herd? Who waswitness to the outbreak of 2000? It was a mess.What happens when the hunt club is no more? There are tens of thousands of acres of land that will now have no leasors. Do you think the timber companies will say "oh well...it's only $100,000." Think again. Timber alone is not worth their time. Goodbye pines and hello subdivisions.

Where will the rabbit hunters, raccoon hunters, fox hunters, bear, coyote, bobcat hunters...etc. etc. where will you all run your hounds? Perhaps next to the subdivision. Then, THEY can come down on your hounds and take away your rights. Where does the issue end?

If we do not learn to be more tolerant of each other, and come to a sensible solution, we will all lose the fight. We could lose our deer herd quality, our land and yet another right to hunt. Some "hunters" on this thread surprise me, thereare more words typed calling each other names than coming to a solution. The subject is so volitile, yetonly a few can seem to discuss the issue like Virginians instead of imitating some ranting fool.
Why not brainstorm ideas instead of insults?
I am new to this thread, but not new to my home state and not new to deer hunting, in all of it's forms.
I humbly ask that you all act like Virginians should and attempt to solve the problem. This is very disgraceful and unbecoming to you all.

RE: Running Dogs In VA
 

If you had half an ounce of reading comprehension ability you would have clearly seen by my avatar and throughout the entire thread what my name is.Now you are not even man enough to saywhat youwere really doing and use the lame excuse"Oh I didn't know!"

It's all good Sally, like I said Iknow all I need to know about you from your posts. This is hardly a fight, you are babbling and rambling and noone cares,that you don't even see that is funny as hell to me. Well at least you got some clarification on what the word pothunt actually means you should thank 14thVA for that lesson. What's even funnier is the way you areon jwilsons jock, the other"special"person in the thread, you are right he is funny. You guys should meet up and discuss thegay deer hunter thing since it is you two that brought it up, maybe you guys could discuss it over a nice bottle of wine.:D

Anyway, stay smart buddy.;)

RE: Running Dogs In VA
 

Good post 14thVA. And even though I have admittedly not been the most PC on this thread I usually try to portray that there are those of us that dog hunt legally and respectfully. I have been in just about every thread on this topic since I joined this site and they usually are arguing/debating because noone wants to budge. Well I can budge, nothing is set in stone. If there is a way to make dog hunting better in VA I'm all for exploring and working with other hunters.

What I disagree with and don't like is when non dog hunters call for it's banning and say allthe bad experiences they have had with some dog hunters(not that I doubtsome of them). Then theylump everyone under one big blanket statement. Many don't even acknowledge that there could be respectful law abiding dog hunters out there. Another common approach is to tell me I need to police all dog hunters, I can't do that just like they can't police all still hunters(who break laws to).

It is a very frustrating topic indeed and this is one of the worst threads on it that I have been a part of. What's worse about that is it is a South thread, a VA thread predominantly and this is just a small sample of how we hunters brainstorm and work together. That's sarcasm, we don't work together or agree to disagree then search for common ground and you will find that many are not even interested in that anyway,they just want to tell horror stories....frustrating.

You bring up a good point about the herd thatI have brought up in the past and never once has anyone commentedon it. Who will kill the deer?We have an immense population in VA and if you removed the dog club kills who picks up the slack? If clubs don't lease the land and then smaller groups of still hunters can't afford it after a season or two, then what? When the land isn't leased what happens to it? It will eventually be broke down and sold for development, it happens every year on a small scale and would drastically increase with dog clubs not involved.

Many people are quick to grab their torch and pitchfork and scream ban dog hunting without even taking into consideration the dynamics of it as far as the herd and the land go. Ultimately it won't be us that suffers we are fortunate to be able to sit here and piss and moan about it. The ones who will suffer will be our great grandkids and their kids and their kids etc. I'm all for bettering things for the future, unfortunatelyit seemswe(hunters) as a group just don't know how to do that together.

RE: Running Dogs In VA
 

Call me whatever you want, just don't call me late for the dog opener next season! Last year(06-07) I killed 10 deer(4 with dogs), the year prior I kille 9(4 with dogs)this year I killed 6(0 with dogs). In this thread I have stated I am a notdie hard dog hunter but I support it and other forms of hunting 100%. I'm not sure how the # of deer I killed matters but you wanted to know.

We are not talking about other states, we are talking about VA. Dog hunting and the traditions ofVA are what they are you can't justlegislate or wish it away. Say what you want but deer hunters and deer clubsin VA are by far the majority. I duck hunt and rabbit hunt and I don't see 1/10 of the hunters I see during deer season. I know of only a couple ofclubs that arebeagle clubs andare strictly rabbit and small game hunters and I know first hand of dog clubs that have switched to no dog hunting and watched their #'s slowly but surely dwindle over the next 5 seasons until the land eventually got split up and absorbed by other clubs or developed. Not saying still hunting clubscan't work to some degreejust saying what I have seen.

The timber companies in VA have been selling out for years. They have been making marginal to low turnovers on their lands in VA for the past 30 years(if not longer). You are correct they will get their money because after they strip the land a couple more time they start to sell it off to developers. Surely you know somewhere that is a neighborhood now that you used to hunt in, all I'm saying is that will continue to happen and probably increase.

Could they maintain thebalance withinthe herd numbers by shortening the dog season to the last 4 weeksandallowingSunday hunting(or something like that),maybe they could. There are probably a lot of other ways/ideas that people havethat couldimprove hunter relations and the hunting seasonsbut you(and most)haven't been discussing anything like that. There are other states with dog seasonsthat have undertook similiar restructuring of seasons and theimplementing ofnew guidlelines and policies. I don't here anyone saying "Hey something like that may work here." I don't here you dicussing anything other than "in my area".

Then you go from a dog hunting argument to a QDM argument, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DISCUSS IN THIS THREAD? Is letting little bucks go some kind of cure all. Of course it isn't, it is only a tiny part of what it takes to manage a deer herd. Many other factors are equally important i.e. available land, bordering landowner cooperation, year round nutritional concerns, not just killing does but killing the right # of does, money, and the list goes on and on and on. I can't speak for your area and since you obviously know every deer dog hunter in your area andconsider them worthless and not in tune withwhat "you" want to do maybe you shouldoutbid them on their lease and start a still hunting club or justmove.

I'm not sureexactly what validpoints or ideasyou are trying to make but I do have a good idea of what youropinion of the dog hunters in your area is and I guess if we all approach it with the "my area" mentality rater than"our state" mentality we will continue to go round and round and round and I'm dizzy already.

RE: Running Dogs In VA
 

behunting14,
Only an immature little boy would resort to name calling on a public forum. You do not represent me as a hunter, at all.

Hey New,
I don’t care for running deer with dogs. My concern is a selfish one, but so are everyone else’s.
Here are two posts from a thread in this page called “Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance.” I’m posting them here because I think they’re relevant to your wanting to get to some solutions instead of bickering. I think it is important for dog hunters to realize that they’re going to have to figure out a way to make the public happy or their privileges are going to be lost. I don’t dog hunt, but I don’t want to see dog hunting, or any other form of hunting taken away. It seems like to me, and I could very well be wrong; all dog hunters are trying to do is convince people that they’re wrong for not understanding or supporting dog hunting instead of looking for ways to make both sides happy.

Perhaps I’m not creative enough, but the only things that I can think of are running dogs on larger pieces of land and having some means of calling off the dog when heading out of a leased area. I know that sucks, but I’m not sure what else you could do. I’ve trained my dog to stay in my yard, but a few weeks ago he started fighting with two hunt club dogs in my back yard. I can’t really blame my dog, since there are two loud dogs running through his yard while my kids were playing. Now I’ve got a dog fight on my hands Not to mention that when my wife came home that day, I was planning to go out in my woods to hunt some deer that probably just got chased off. Am I selfish for not liking it? Maybe. Do other people feel the same as me? Most likely they do from what I hear and see. Problem is; if a bunch of people are saying the same thing, in regards to complaints, there is probably a reason.
I was humbled a while back when my father told me that he thought I was too hard on my son. That took me by surprise. One reason it shocked me is that I felt my father was hard on me. But the bigger reason was my mother told me the same thing a few weeks earlier. They are divorced and don’t speak to each other, which means… I’m probably too hard on my oldest son. I decided to be the man I thought I was and man-up. I took the action to look in the mirror and watch myself. I noticed that they were right, and I was wrong. I expected too much of him, since he was the oldest. I’m sure you can see where I’m going with this…

Here are the posts;

First one…

I’ve never been dog hunting, where we ran dogs. I have brought my one dog with me hunting. But I own a house right next to a leased hunt club property in Spotsylvania VA and I can tell you that I don’t support that kind of hunting. The reason that I don’t is because I don’t want dogs running the deer on my property, and that keeps happening. My fathers property in Culpeper is the same way. I can be in my tree stand, on my land and watch your dogs run deer through and out of my property. Then you can hear the shots from over on the road, which isn’t hunt club property. This isn’t the only property that I hunt that is near leased land that dog runners use, and from what I’ve seen, this is common.

You fought and got the right to retrieve you dogs from others property without permission, but I can’t retrieve a dead deer that ran onto hunt club property without permission. You know property boundaries are not being respected. But now it is illegal to cut the collar from the dog. The Berkley hunt club, really close to my house won’t let anyone join… But they’re sure happy to use my private road to drop off and pick up their dogs.
I’m not trying to be disrespectful, but you guys are going to have to start being respectful of other people and hunters before you’re going to be getting much backing from a lot of people.

Second post;

SouthernDoghunter,
Have you stopped to think about why your preferred type of hunting is under attack? I have; and it isn’t because you kill a deer that was pushed from its bed with a dog. It is because people are sick of having hunting dogs on private property. You keep saying “the dog can’t read.” You need to stop saying that because it makes you sound ignorant. That is not a conversation ending statement. If I can’t have my dog outside not on a leash, why can you? Hunting dogs end up on private or public property time and time again. That is a fact, and it keeps happening. Then the hunter says something that doesn’t sit well with the people who are bothered by it; “the dogs can’t read.” Yeah, no crap, and neither can the hunter, is probably what they’re thinking.

My dog is my responsibility, not the landowners on either side of me. My youngest child can’t read either, and he too is my responsibility. You can’t set a dog free on a small piece of property and expect him to stay on it. It is your job to figure out a way to fix the problem, not the people or hunters who don’t participate. If you elect not to, your privilege will most certainly go away. Like it or not, if you don’t get creative and respectful you won’t be doing this much longer. I hope you’re able to see that, and I hope that your privilege doesn’t go away, but that is on you.

Good luck,

KP

RE: Running Dogs In VA
 

You cannot compare Virginia to another states concerning deer numbers vs. dog hunting. For example, it would not make sense to hunt deer with dogs on the open plains of Wyoming. I am also sure their whitetail population is very different from VA on number of deer per square mile basis.Kill numbers cannot be compared with ours as there are too many variables. More or less hunters, more or less habitat...etc etc. With the exception of a fewneighboring states, none have the "jungle"land of central virginia. If you live in the western half of the state, you are lacking thatas well. You cannot effectively still hunt a 3,000 acre plot of 10ft tall pines with undergrowth so thick you cannot crawl through it. Believe it or not, deer know this and will remain in that area until nightfall oreven several daysunless they are pushed out. No still hunter will pay somewhere in the vicinity of $600-700 per year for a lease they cannot possibly hunt. There would also have to be many members to these clubs.
That scenario is not an option.

It seems that the most common landowner complaints are:dogs coming on private property, followed by hunters coming on private property to retrieve dogs and/or illegally "dropping" dogs on their property.
Would it be safe to say that dog hunters would be willing not to go on private property for ANY reason without permission AND it would also be unlawful to "drop" dogs from any state maintained road (this will help eliminate the unlawful use of "dropping" dogs on property without landowner permission) if the landowner is willing to accept the fact that some hounds will "tresspass" on their property and are willing to return the dog if it remained on the said property?

RE: Running Dogs In VA
 

Let me say that 1st i do not hunt deer with dogs,,only because i do not have the opportunity to do so,,,if i did,,i would!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2nd,,,this behunting14 person does not represent any hunter in any form anywhere,,as a matter of fact id like to break my foot off in his a$$!!!!!!(and will do so promptly given the chance)
I have never been around dog hunting when it comes to deer but i hunt alot of public land in the Marshall area and i wish the landowners around here would run dogs,,,1st of all i can hit a runnin deer,,,2nd of all,,,it would get nocturnal deer moving,,,i am not a landowner here in va. but i can find no downfalls(according to the posts here) other than a guy who feels like a dog running a deer on his property is somehow stepping on his d!ck,,,i may be way off base,,,but from previous posts on this issue,,,to me it's just a pi$$in match over your dogs on my property????????????????

RE: Running Dogs In VA
 

Killer,

You bring up some good points and I don't think you are off on what some of the main problems are and I certainly acknowledge there are problems with the system and dog hunting(and yes some dog hunters). Earlier in the thread I posted what VA's laws are in regards to dog hunting, and in my mind that is where the majority of theseproblems stem from, the root cause. Because right now it is not illegal forapersonsdogs(hunting dogs of course)to beofftheir hunting land and it is not illegal fora dog owner to retrieve his dogs off ofsomeone else's private property, without permission even.In my mind that leads to nowhere but trouble and the stories we hear seem to back that up. Bottom line is it is frustrating to a private landowner and annoying as hell but many of the complaints don't actually involve law breaking. Lots of guys are just using the lax laws to their advantage, I'm not saying it's right or wrongjust that's what I have seenand I've seenboth sides of this coin.

This is a little off topicKP and I just wanted to add for anyone readingthat for the record I own 100 acre farmnear Petersburg that 2 sides of our land border a dog club and the other two sides border private landowners who run dogs as well(I'm very familiar with the term "pot hunter)I don't have much choice during gun season:D. Basically we are surrounded by dog hunters andwe(my family and friends)are food plot planting, bowhunting, blackpowder toting, hard core still hunters onour piece.These days we have a good relationship with the 2 landowners andhave very littletrouble with thecurrent club but it was not always that way(with the club). I also hunt with a large club on the Eastern Shore and we have recently had to make changes on certain properties about running our dogs, and we made the necessary changes and maintained a positive relationship with the surroudling landowners and the company we lease from. I am honestly speaking on this topic from both sides: landowner and dog hunter.

KP I think you are right about needing a certain amount of acreage and hunting your dogs responsibly. Other states do already require 1,000 contigious (sp?) acres and all of the dogs must be registered. If a person gets too many complaints theycan fine and ticket him and eventually he couldlose his ability to register hounds. Another aspect could be to not use hounds or big dogs on smaller pieces, block up your land and use beagles on the smaller blocks and really hunt smart, wrapping a piece up all the way and everyone help catch the dogs when the deer is killed or headed in the wrong direction.

A lot can be done and I'm sure change is on the horizon. Some won't be happy unless it is banned and some dog hunters won't be happy with any kind of restrictions or guidelines. That is to be expected but hopefullythere willbemore on each side to say "Hey there is some middle ground here somewhere, let's see if we can find it."

Only time will tell.

RE: Running Dogs In VA
 

This has got to be the craziest topic on this forum!! So much anger, so much hatred,,,, it's a wonder why the moderators haven't booted you guys off yet! Unless of course one of you guys is truely the owner/moderator, operating under a different screen name?(The spooky music starts now, listen closely,,,) Damn,...,intrigue and all this excitement, and it's all free, free, free!!! Kinda makes me wanna type all night,,,, naked,,,, listening to my dogs run. (lol) Boy I hope this forum lasts a long time, at least until next dog season, then it starts all over again, bitch, bitch, bitch,,,, wah, wah, wah,,,, somebody ran a dog past my deer stand,,, wah, wah,wah,,, but it will all still be legal, all still be a southern tradition!!! Run them doggies, and kick some deer ass!!

RE: Running Dogs In VA
 

killer primate, your right about my statements I acted like a child. I guess thatI was mad that someone had a different opinion then I did. New61375 I'm sorry that called you those names. Name calling is never right. Someday if you can forgive me, maybe you can hunt with me or maybe I can come try some dog hunting. Over the last day I have done some research and I have come to the conclusion that what I thougt was right was not. We all need to work together as hunters. Hokieman good luck with the alliance. I'm sorry about my statements to you.If the state was to take away dog hunting, what is next. That is why I feel now that we need to work together to find the best solution. Once again I'm sorry for my inappropraite comments.