coyote hunter problems
 

I'm a Bowhunter, Rifle Hunter, and muzzleloader hunter, so I'm not one of those anti's, but I have a real big problem with local dog running coyote hunters, I purchase 80 acres of hunting land here in Minnesota about 4 years ago. I posted it. which I thought ment everyone, but I guess not.I would have never had a problem with them running there dogs, if they would ask, but its apparently its to much of a hassle for them. I confronted one guy ( new it was him cause I got a good picture of his mug on my game camera )Isaid to him, I would haveappreciated if he and his group would have asked me before they just trespassed,he told me he had no control of where his dogs go when they get on a track.What I don't understand is why do these guy's think at this time of year they can go where they want and do what they want on other peoples property. and we are just suppose to accept it.
I was kinda hopeing they would have been running this weekend. I crawled up in the old deer stand with my Rem 223on sunday. maybe could have shot a coyote myself,course I was more interested in thinning the dog population out a little bit

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

I'm not sticking up for these trespassers one bit. But you better think long and hard before you go shooting their hound. Several states have laws to help the owner ofsporting dogsif they are shot and know who did it. It could cost you alot of money, whether the dog is trespassing or not. I hunt with a group of guys here in Indiana, but they get permission for the area we'll be hitting before we go. But also there's times when the dogs simply go the opposite direction and get somewhere they arent supposed to be. It can be touchy. There is usually a "leader" among the guys who hunt with dogs. I would try to get ahold of this guy and let him know how you feel.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

Taking matters into your own hands is seldom the right thing to do, and as was said may end up costing you way more in the long run. Catch them trespassing and prosicute! This may be the only way you'll get your point across to them to stop trespassing!

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

that'd be pretty messed up if you shot their dog. it's not the dog's fault, he doesn't know if he's tresspassing. just shoot the guys.

j/k. if they do it again just call the cops and show them the picture you have.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

I know how you feel, we have the same problem around here too. But one difference is, more often than not, they are actually running deer with their dogs, but thats illegal here, so they have coyote dogs, and they are hunting "coyotes" when they are actually running deer. Most around here are too lazy to tresspass, they wait for the deer or whatever to cross the road and shoot them then. Makes me sick, usually starts about august, and is still going on now.[:@]

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

I would like to think I could shoot there dogs, and I would like to have them think Iwould shoot there dogs, but personally I am a dog lover myself. when my Black lab had to put down because of cancer I was a mess for about a week.although when I owned a dog and hunted ducks and pheasants. the dog was within eye site all the time and under my control at all times. These so called hunters will drive the roads until they see a coyote track in the ditch, let there dogs go then get on there radios and have there buddys waiting for the dogs to run something out to um. these are groups of about 25 to 30 guys, These guys never get any further than just a few feet from there pickups. They'll pull into an approach and climb in the box of there trucks,( useing the cab for a rifle rest ) and wait for a coyote to cross the road.---And they call this hunting.--- most of the time they just run deer out, Here in Minnesota we just received about 20" of snow,and personally, I don't think the deer need this undo stress put on them at this time.another thing thatpisses me off is that these fellas, can meet you on the street and not even give you the time of day,but you're suppose to stand there with open arms and let them runthere dogs anywhere they want. This kinda so called hunting can only help the anti hunting groups. I have hunted deer, ducks and pheasent for nearly 40 years. but this has put a very bitter taste in my mouth about the future of hunting. Thanks for letting me bitch. Steve

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

I've heard the "we can't control where our dogs go" line more than once. To me, that's just a piss poor excuse so the guys can road huntthe entire county. Guys let their dogs out knowing full well that the dogs are going to run into areas they shouldn't, and have just somewhere along the line come up with some speech about how their dogs are untouchable.

If you see how some of the guys treat their dogs on a daily basis one might think that a bullet to the head might be better off for the dog.

A few years ago I was deer hunting in the late season when I had several deer, followed by 2 coyotes, followed by 3 dogs come running like a raped ape in sneakers through my area, scaring everything within earshot. While walking back to the truck after a failed outing, I was approached by one of the coyote hunting party members, asking if i'd seen the dogs. "yeah, I saw them, and the deer they were chasing, and you know, those dogs shouldn't be here, just like you shouldn't be on this ground right now, either"

"yeah, well, we can't control where the dogs go" with a big grin on his face.

"Maybe you cant control where your dogs go, BUT I CAN."

Ended the conversation pretty quick...

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

Well, i dunno how lazy dog hunters are compared to people who shoot from a stand or blind, but i'll leave that one alone.

Coyotes have been absolute hell on small game and farm animals in the area where i own land in Illinois. A few years ago, two different groups of coyote hunters started hunting the area regularly. Now the coyotes are much less of a problem. One of the groups makes a special effort to get permission from landowners in the general area, although that is tough since dogs may run a coyote halfway across the county. I for one, don't realy mind, since I like to see the coyote population kept down, but i can understand how some folks might feel. One idea might be to have a special dog season for coyotes after deer season closes. But somehow, i imagine that some folks (not necessarily pointing fingers at folks here) would still find something to complain about.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

I personally am a Predator Purist... If you cant call them in Let them be, Road Shooting, Dog Running, Running them down on Sleds, to eaches own... If it makes you feel like a man... What ever... Call'em give them the respect they deserve... I am not a biologist so I cant speak educated enough to why they are on the varmit list... But Im sure there is a good reason.

If you think about it... They are Probably the strongest animal out there, for years they have been Poisoned, Hunted Year Round, Shot from the Road, Shot from the Air, and Hunted by Legal, ethical and Illegal and Unethical Means, and they still Prosper on top of that all. You never hear of anyone sticking up for them as Animals, and there Perserverance...

Mike

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

Mike,

I assume that as a true purist, you have to be really good to call them within range of your stone-tipped spear or obsidian tomahawk[:-]

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

No, the spear I have no skill with... The Tomahawk well not exacly, I did toss a size 11 boot at one as it was eating cat food from the dish on the deck....

Lanse, Purist I am, but to not that extreme, I definately agree they take a enormous toll on all ground nesting birds, rabbits and by enlarge deer... I do agree they need to be hunted and hunted is one thing... I just implying that taking them off the road, on sleds and other ways, that dont fall in the fair chase catagory shouldnt be considered hunting... Just my oppion, In which the post was started about the total disregard to Tresspassing, that goes without speaking...

Mike

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

dog hunting is alot of fun. give it a try, then decide.

our dog running doesn't open here until after deer season. that's the simple solution----state agencies don't usually do things the simple way, though.

purists? dogs have been chasing coyotes alot longer than we've been calling them in.

to each his own.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

I have to agree with Lance, as long as it is legal then by all means go for it. Coyotes here are a problem too. This past year for once the coyote numbers were down. So yes as far as I am concerned keep on getting those numbers under control.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

You know, I hunt with dogs, albeit beagles... but the same thing happens to them as the bigger 'yote dogs. They get on land they aren't supposed to. I do my darnedest to keep them off and once they tresspass I go and get them as fast as possible and get out. If I run into the land owner I appologize and explain why I am where I am. I usually don't have any trouble.

To the person that originated this thread, did you put your phone number on your no trespassing signs so they had a way to actually contact you? I am not sticking up for them, but attitudes go a long way in the way people react to you and the situation.

We as hunters should try our very best to get along, because when we fight amoungst ourselves, the anti's just sit back and grin from ear to ear.

Emery

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

i sometimes hunt with a friend and her wolfhounds.To watchthat wolfhound hit the coyote and the second dog grab the yote by the neck it is as good as it gets.

i am surprised that many of the eastern states have not wised up about coyotes. Coyotes were never native there at all. Coyotes came east much later. Eastern states better put a bounty on yotes or allow folks to kill them year around on pubiic land or the deer population will quickly go south.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

In response to MIbeagleman

I am sure there are alot of good honest coyote hunters out there, and by the sounds of it you are one of those, but on the flip side there's a hand full of guys that aren't so thoughtful . and as for haveing my phone number onmy posted signs, these guys know me and I know them.Ifit were someone whodidn't know me,and plan onhunting this way, one of them should purchase a plat book ( which is a map of the county which tells who owns what, and where.)That way they could sit down the night before open the plat book to where they plan on hunting and call everyone who owns property in that area and ask permission and let the land owners know who's in charge of the group. but maybe thats to simple for some people to do. "Just My thoughts"
Steve

replying to

You know, I hunt with dogs, albeit beagles... but the same thing happens to them as the bigger 'yote dogs. They get on land they aren't supposed to. I do my darnedest to keep them off and once they tresspass I go and get them as fast as possible and get out. If I run into the land owner I appologize and explain why I am where I am. I usually don't have any trouble.

To the person that originated this thread, did you put your phone number on your no trespassing signs so they had a way to actually contact you? I am not sticking up for them, but attitudes go a long way in the way people react to you and the situation.

We as hunters should try our very best to get along, because when we fight amoungst ourselves, the anti's just sit back and grin from ear to ear.

Emery
[/quote]

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

I don't have a problem with hounding hunting, where legal. I do have a problem with tresspassing and allowing your dog onto someone else's property without permission. If you can't keep the dog off of private property, don't run it. Sorry to hear of such problems. It has to be frustrating to have so much private property, but it still needs to be respected.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

Let's simplify this if we can,
The law states, that coyote hunters are allowed to enter and retrieve there dogs from properties that they may have mistakenly strayed upon... Shouldn't then the person to whom is retrieving said animal be unarmed. Factbeing, an armed individual could be considered still in the process of attempting to harvest game.
That said. when you go in to retrieve you dogs from where they don't belong. leave your guns in your truck.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

I agree, legal action is the way to go and it works. My family owns some nice deer and turkey hunting land and granted my parents' portion of the division is only about 22 acres, people still try to get on it every year. They have pressed trespassing charges on a few parties that have been caught (the majority by gathering tag numbers of vehicles parked on the roadside boundary of the land) and so far there have been no repeat offenders. Just something for you to throw around the noggin.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

Are they to lazy?, not really some will wait for the dogs to return so they do not have the problems mentioned above. When the dogs are on a chase they do not know of any " no tresspassing signs ". The ones running the dogs do so they sit and wait for them to come out. They have radios here to help keep track of there dogs as coyotes do not tree. They also are equiped with 2 way radios and or cell phones so if tresspassing is needed they can make contact with 1 the owner/s or 2local authorities. Also most coyote running here is done outside of deer season. ( we only have a short season) However bear dogs run during our archery season for 2 weeks and the deer will move around and that does not mean they are chasing the deer because of it. Mostly here coyotes are run with dogs during the winter months.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

Stevie,

I'm not sure if entering property to retrieve coyote dogs is legal everywhere. And retrieving them can be pretty tricky since dogs in pursuit of a coyote can be across a 200 acre piece of ground in a matter of minutes. Knowing that, I've never been too worried about how badly several dogs running quickly across an area may scare off all the deer in the vicinity.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

Thinning the population is fine, that's what I'm out to do, also. But not everybody is a respectful hunter. When guys start running dogs all over the county when there is still a month and a half left in archery season,I get a little irritated.

When guys turn the dogs loose knowing full well that they'll run into areas they shouldn't, in my mind that is no different than the hunter tresspassing himself.

The fact that dogs can't read is no excuse to for them to have unrestricted access everywhere.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

Well, keep in mind that there are bad apples in every bunch. There's more than a few deer hunters who can't seem to be able to read POSTED signs or DNR regulations any better than a dog.:eek:

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

Right, but this topic is about dog running coyote hunters. And not all guys I've seen run dogs are bad guys, but it's always the bad ones that ruin it for everybody else, isn't it?:)

It just seems to me when talking to a lot of(not all)dog-runners that there is a sense of smugness in the air. "Dogs cant read, so what can I do about it?"(insert picture of a real smartarse shoulder shrug [8D])

Having an illiterate dog should not give you free access to everywhere.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

Well, like other similar threads that discuss hunting with dogs, it has gone a bit beyond someone simply complaining about coyote hunters actually messing up a deer hunt. I'm simply making the point that there are bad apples iin every bunch and when you use a couple of bad incidents to try to indict an entire form of hunting, then you are playing right in the antis' hands.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

In reply to Lanse couche couche

Lets just say your dogs ran a coyote out onto my property, and there your dogs were along with the coyote just standing 75 yards away broad side. what would you do? now remember you don't know me or have never talked to me about hunting coyotes on my land. would you case your gun and then walk out and retrieve your dogs, our would you shoot the coyote and then gather up your dogs, hopeing that I wouldn't care, or hopeI wont show up and get you for trespassing. Now think long and hard and be honest.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

I've never really heard of a scenario like that actually happenindg so can't really give you an answer.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

again in reply to Lanse couche couche

Use your imagination, lets just say this isthe way it played out, before your very eyes and you had to make a quick decision.
You've been running thisone coyote for the last 2 hours and finally there he is no more than 75 yds away, tired of running and just laying there. but you have no idea who owns the property this critter is now on.. What would you do? would you go in and retrieve your dogs a leave, or who you harvest the coyote grab your dogs and get the heck out of there hopeing whoever owns the property doesn't catch you.

This may be only a fictional scenaro but give it a try. anyone ???????

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

Personally, I feel that a person's land is THEIR land. They paid for it and if they don't want others on it, then others should stay off, period. If a person's dogs enter private property and the law says the person can retrieve the dogs, then I agree with what I think Stevie is trying to say. THE HUNT IS OVER! Unload the gun, enter the property, retrieve the dogs and get out.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

Reality check, A coyote runs game for hours on end. So if a dog or dogs was to run a coyote for 2 hours and the coyote layed down? Coyote is wanting to breed or is a sick coyote. :DNow for most coyote hunters they try to get the dogs to chase the coyote to them. In some cases they will give chase and the hunters have to try and get a head of the dogs in order for the coyote to be even seen. So the hunterscan not walk or run to get ahead of the dogs as dogs do run faster. They would normally drive ahead and wait along side a road with their tracking device in hopes of seeing a coyote come out. So I would say you have a great imagination.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

OK, I will make this a very very easy question

1. Dog go where not have permision to be at.
2. Coyote there to.
3. what do ?

Choose only one please

A--retieve dog from where not suppose to be at, leave coyote be.

B-- shoot coyote, get dog, go home, watch nascar.

Is it A.
Is it B.

my question my rules.

Remeber only one answer.
can'tbe A.and B.
can't be B. and A.
must be A. or B.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

Answer C call authories as you are waiting for me to get my dog.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

Phil, not enough information. are you retriveing
1. Dog + coyote
or
2. Dog - Coyote

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

My dog as it costs me alot more money than 1 coyote would.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

To me, avoiding answering the question is answer enough.

Stevie, you might as well stop wasting your time you aren't going to get an answer.

I know some folks that live in the country here. All the neighbors know the rule. If their dog is on someone else's property, they are fare game. If they are causing any trouble at all, they are as good as dead.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

Thanks Phil

That was fun

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

That is why C call the authorities as you want a witness on how you found your dog. Up here you would be in a lot of crap over it.

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

Phil, how I look at it is, if you ask me for permission. I will most defenatly say yes. if you don't and your dogs happen on my property I would ask you to remove them. and not come back. then if it happened again then I would involve law inforcement. thats fare isn't it ?

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

I'd say B, because catching the dogs will be much easier since they wouldn't still be running and chasing a coyote that can run faster than I can!;)

RE: coyote hunter problems
 

Were I hunt in north Iowa there are a TON of yotes until the snow falls and the "clan" of yote hunters get in there trucks and drive on literally EVERY section of land in about a 15 mile area. now there is no way that they get permission. I know because they trespass on one of my grandpas farms. I guess I dont mind too much one because yotes are terrible on pheasants and deer, but by the time I can go out and try to hunt them they are either already shot or have a PhD in hunter education. Also these guys are a piece of work they actually called the sheriff and told him not to come out because he wouldnt like what he'll see... that being said the "ringleader" of this circus has a real case of the you know what for coyotes. He lost a FULL GROWN BLACK ANGUS BULL to a pack of coyotes a couple years ago, i guess I would be in an unstable mindset too when it came to yotes... Still sucks for those of us actually trying to hunt them