Hey guys, first off I would like to say thanks for all the info I've been reading on here, I have learned a lot. I am looking into getting a .223 rifle. This is my first rifle, I always shot other people's guns, but never had my own. I'm surely not a pro, still a novice by all means. I am looking into a Savage 11FXP4 223 AT Package or a Howa Lightning with 3-9x42 scope 223 (or basically any other Savage with a scope). Any recommendations or experience with these rifles? I will mainly be shooting at a range and maybe 5% of the time shooting small game. I am set on the .223, but I am trying to decide which gun. Also, both of these packages go for around $400 (walmart & Jim's sporting goods online), is there any other places that offer a better price for these, or where could I find them cheaper? Thanks in advance. Steve

I have a savage model 111 223 and Ireally like it. My wife got it for me.

I don't know much about the Howa rifles but I do know the Savage's will out-shoot rifles costing hundreds of dollars more.

I also have a Model 111 in .223,this gun shoots 1-1/2" groups at 200 yards with factory ammo. The scope that comes with these rifles is just o.k. I put a Simmons 6-24x50 AO on it and it made a world of difference.

The new Savage rifles come with the Accutrigger, I wish mine had it, the original trigger is pretty rough.

Good Hunting,
Bowflex

Either rifle would probably serve you well, but avoid the package deals and just buy a rifle. You don't want your rifle's capabilities to be limited by your optics.

Bowflex.........how much did you get that gun for? i have been looking ata savage in .223 and was wondering how much you paid for it.

I think I paid around $420.00, but I got a deal because my buddy works at the gun shop part-time.

Good Hunting,
Bowflex

My savage model 12bvss is awsome. savages are some of the most accurate rifles for the money. I would also agree with not letting bad optics ruin the capabilites of a rifle. I think my scope on my savage cost twice as much as the gun.

The HOWA 1500 rifle may seem like a joke to a lot of people, but let me tell you, HOWA is probably the best deal going these days, it just a Weatherby Vanguard with a different name and a chaper price, I would put the quality up their with a Remington 700. But, Savage doesn't mess around either, they make very good guns as well, you can't go wrong either way.

I bought the same HOWA package you spoke of in .338 Win Mag, the scope came with Leupold bases and rings. Overall, it was an excellent deal.

Get the Savage. I bought the model 10fp .223. It has a shorter barrel than the model 12and it has a matte black barrel. Plus you get the Accutrigger and an awsome Savage barrel. A savage with a regular sporter barrel is a great deal and a very good shooter also. I have heard a lot of mixed stuff on the Howa. Saying it is essentially a Weatherby Vangaurd isn't saying much either. I don't know whatweatherby is trying to say about the 1 1/2" 3 shot 100yard group. I would be pissed with a group like that. I got a 1" group with my savage with the first box I broke the barrel in with. I shoot 1/2" groups all day long with my first batch of reloads.