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Do they exist?
Is there a scope on the market that the click adjustments actually move the right amout, will hold up on a 30-06 for years, will stay put once adjusted, you can see thru at dawn and dusk, nice clear glass, ect. I just want one that works right overall. I have tried a few and have been disappointed. Seems like I have to get a new scope every 1-2 years and I am tired of buying them. I am looking for a good scope that you don't have to take out a second mortgage to buy. I am looking to stay under $600 or so. 3-9x40 or a 4-12x40. Any suggestions?
Also NO Leupolds! I have had 3 of them over the years. Two VX-II and one VX-III and they are lousy. For the money I had rather have a Tasco. |
I use Burris and here's why;
http://www.chuckhawks.com/overview_burris_optics.htm I put one of these on each of my bolt guns. http://www.opticsplanet.net/burris-4...le-scopes.html Works for me.................KISS Principle. Same everything no matter which caliber I need that day. |
I have had the same Bushnell on my 7MM Rem Mag, now for 10 years. It has held the same mark since I first sighted it in. I have checked that mark every year since and it has never changed.
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Zeiss Conquest...
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What type of mounts do you have?? A 3006 isn't really a scope beater so I'd be suspect of the mounting system if your burning thru scopes in only a year or two.
Another vote for the Zeiss Conquest |
The Leupys should have done you fine, if not, the customer service would have made them right. I agree with the above, check mounts. If they are good, hard to beat a Conquest for the money. My second choice would be a Nikon Monarch.
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I shot a .300 Win Mag till last year. I have a 30-06 now. I have new Leupold bases and rings on it. The main issue I had with alot of them is they move a random amount when you adjust them. Like 4 clicks should be 1in at 100yds but it might actually move 1/4in or 2in so if you swap ammo it is a guessing game at the range to get the scope reset for it.
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Originally Posted by Jacob Garrett
(Post 3719030)
I shot a .300 Win Mag till last year. I have a 30-06 now. I have new Leupold bases and rings on it. The main issue I had with alot of them is they move a random amount when you adjust them. Like 4 clicks should be 1in at 100yds but it might actually move 1/4in or 2in so if you swap ammo it is a guessing game at the range to get the scope reset for it.
Every manufacturer uses a slightly different recipe for their cartridges, from the powder burn rate, bullet mass, primer heat, and cartridge wall thickness. Granted, there isn't a whole LOT of variance, but those differences add up, and all change your zero from one lot to the next, and one manufacturer to the next. So, it merits the question - are you using the same bullet weights to keep the ballistics as similar as possible? As an example, in my own 300WSM, I tried 3 different bullet weights - 150, 165/168, and 180 grains - to see which my rifle liked the best. Turns out that it likes the Winchester CXT 168 grain (Combined Technology bullet)...but not too sure of which powder was used and Winchester wouldn't tell me. I've had Leupold scopes for many, many years. Aside from changing ammunition that you're putting through it, I can't understand for myself how you're changing your zero that dramatically from year to year. If you're that unhappy with your Leupold optics, send me a PM, and if you'd consider it, I'll buy them from you, so you can have some coin to put into something that you will enjoy shooting. |
There is a pretty extensive list of excellent scopes under $600 that fit your needs.
I've owned some scopes that fit your needs that cost me less than a third of that. You are saying that a Leupold VXIII was inferior to a Tasco ? No suggestion I make will be adequate then.......... I have a couple of Burris FFIIs mounted on bigger more powerful guns than your 06 and they have lasted many years and never require re-adjustment. Cost me $200 tops |
DDMPrecision I think you misunderstood my post. I know the ammo changes the POI but the scope won't move the POI consistently. If you click it 4 clicks it might move anywhere from 1/4in to 2in with the 4 clicks instead of 1in like its supposed to.
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Weaver is supposed to have a good adjustment system, so I've been told, I don't own one though.
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Originally Posted by Jacob Garrett
(Post 3719211)
DDMPrecision I think you misunderstood my post. I know the ammo changes the POI but the scope won't move the POI consistently. If you click it 4 clicks it might move anywhere from 1/4in to 2in with the 4 clicks instead of 1in like its supposed to.
If you are having that much trouble with Leupolds, either your mounts/bases suck or you've been dropping it on concrete from 10 feet!! |
I'd check into Meopta Meopro, Vortex Vipers, Minox ZA3, Bushnell Elite 4200, Sightron Big Sky and of course Zeiss Conquests.
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My friend, if you think a Tasco is a better scope than a Leupold you may want to get iron sights. It's not the scope.
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Originally Posted by Sniper151
(Post 3719441)
My friend, if you think a Tasco is a better scope than a Leupold you may want to get iron sights. It's not the scope.
That being said, I'm not saying that Tasco scopes are great or even good, but I've had a better experience with them than a Leupold, so I don't think it's fair to act like the op is an idiot when he may very well have had a better experience with a Tasco. BTW the VX-I I had tracked no where close to how it should. It was like he said a guessing game trying to sight it in. I hate those friction adjustments, but at least the more expensive models do away with them. |
Originally Posted by hometheaterman
(Post 3719545)
I have a $30 Tasco as well as a Leupold VX-I. I've had two VX-I's but sold one. Anyway, I can't tell a difference optically between the two. A few friends looked into them side by side and all thought the Tasco looked clearer. On top of that, my Leupold has been in for repair twice, and the Tasco still works great. They are about the same age.
That being said, I'm not saying that Tasco scopes are great or even good, but I've had a better experience with them than a Leupold, so I don't think it's fair to act like the op is an idiot when he may very well have had a better experience with a Tasco. BTW the VX-I I had tracked no where close to how it should. It was like he said a guessing game trying to sight it in. I hate those friction adjustments, but at least the more expensive models do away with them. I am just sayin. You ever look back and wonder why? |
Zeiss Conquest... :hail:
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Originally Posted by hometheaterman
(Post 3719545)
I have a $30 Tasco as well as a Leupold VX-I. I've had two VX-I's but sold one. Anyway, I can't tell a difference optically between the two. A few friends looked into them side by side and all thought the Tasco looked clearer. On top of that, my Leupold has been in for repair twice, and the Tasco still works great. They are about the same age.
That being said, I'm not saying that Tasco scopes are great or even good, but I've had a better experience with them than a Leupold, so I don't think it's fair to act like the op is an idiot when he may very well have had a better experience with a Tasco. BTW the VX-I I had tracked no where close to how it should. It was like he said a guessing game trying to sight it in. I hate those friction adjustments, but at least the more expensive models do away with them. |
Originally Posted by bigcountry
(Post 3719564)
Homeheater, I sure don't mean to be rude, but you seem to have a significant amount of trouble with all your gear from BAR's to leupolds.
I am just sayin. You ever look back and wonder why? The BAR I haven't really had trouble with as far as not working properly. I've just had trouble finding a load that shoots well in it, and I've tried to get it to shoot more loads accurately. However, I've found one load and one load only that shoots really well out of it. I just am always tinkering with it trying to get it to shoot other loads well. I wouldn't really say that's trouble. The other gun related item I've had trouble with was a Remington 870 Super Magnum Express, but from what I've read, issues with that aren't all that uncommon either. There are lots of items that I've used that I've not had issues with, and they work great. So it's not like every thing I have has issues. 2 or 3 things I've got have had issues. As mentioned that Tasco scope I have, I still have and it still works fine. Sorry that your such a Leupold fan, but the facts are that you can get much better glass from another company for the same money, and Leupolds do fail. Do a search on SnipersHide.com or 24HourCampfire.com There are quite a few guys who have had issues with Leupolds on both of those sites. So it's not just me and my friends. Now there are guys like you that will defend Leupold to the end, and that's fine as I know everyone has brands they are loyal too. In fact, I do too. However, if you look at them and compare them to the competition there really are better options out there for the money. |
Originally Posted by skb2706
(Post 3719658)
There is a huge difference between a Leupold VXIII and a Leupold VXI.
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Originally Posted by hometheaterman
(Post 3719682)
I have had a few problems with different things. With the Leupold, I would have chalked it up to having gotten a lemon if it wasn't for the fact that I had two other friends that also bought Leupolds, and both of them also broke in the exact same way.
The BAR I haven't really had trouble with as far as not working properly. I've just had trouble finding a load that shoots well in it, and I've tried to get it to shoot more loads accurately. However, I've found one load and one load only that shoots really well out of it. I just am always tinkering with it trying to get it to shoot other loads well. I wouldn't really say that's trouble. The other gun related item I've had trouble with was a Remington 870 Super Magnum Express, but from what I've read, issues with that aren't all that uncommon either. There are lots of items that I've used that I've not had issues with, and they work great. So it's not like every thing I have has issues. 2 or 3 things I've got have had issues. As mentioned that Tasco scope I have, I still have and it still works fine. Sorry that your such a Leupold fan, but the facts are that you can get much better glass from another company for the same money, and Leupolds do fail. Do a search on SnipersHide.com or 24HourCampfire.com There are quite a few guys who have had issues with Leupolds on both of those sites. So it's not just me and my friends. Now there are guys like you that will defend Leupold to the end, and that's fine as I know everyone has brands they are loyal too. In fact, I do too. However, if you look at them and compare them to the competition there really are better options out there for the money. Actually I own more Nikon's Ziess's and Bushnell elites than I do Leupold. Don't you find that interesting? And have owned several burris, and all the crap below. So does that make me a ziess/nikon/bushnell elite/leupold fan boy? I am not brand loyal. I use what works. You lack experience, and there is nothing wrong with that. Nobody is born with information. You can't make up for experience with sniperhide searchs or even a google search. Even you have to realize the folly in this method. |
If you read it on the internet, it must be true! You get many "experts" that have only a very limited amount of experience that recommend or trash almost everything. I doubt that there is a truly bad $300 scope on the market. Read the specs and look through the scopes to find the one that will make you happy. I would also seriously consider the application. A whitetail hunt in Tenn. is very different from a high altitude sheep hunt or a cape buffalo in thick jess.
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Originally Posted by Big Uncle
(Post 3719697)
If you read it on the internet, it must be true! You get many "experts" that have only a very limited amount of experience that recommend or trash almost everything. I doubt that there is a truly bad $300 scope on the market. Read the specs and look through the scopes to find the one that will make you happy. I would also seriously consider the application. A whitetail hunt in Tenn. is very different from a high altitude sheep hunt or a cape buffalo in thick jess.
Everyone of them have pro's and con's. Leupold has long eye relief, but some like the fixed eye releif better. Nikon has a very sensitive sight window, but some love it because they are the closest to being parallax forgiving. Bushnell elites have a a sucky warranty compared to Leupold but less cost. I suggest before someone posts, they at least have used the product. Not just one VX-1. |
Originally Posted by bigcountry
(Post 3719696)
And this is what else is interesting. You feel the need to add, "I know friends who had issues", or "I have came to the conclution from reading the web that all BAR's are inaccurate". I even show you results, but you ignore the ones that don't agree with your results and seem to gravitate to only the ones that do.
Actually I own more Nikon's Ziess's and Bushnell elites than I do Leupold. Don't you find that interesting? And have owned several burris, and all the crap below. So does that make me a ziess/nikon/bushnell elite/leupold fan boy? I am not brand loyal. I use what works. You lack experience, and there is nothing wrong with that. Nobody is born with information. You can't make up for experience with sniperhide searchs or even a google search. Even you have to realize the folly in this method. I'm not sure how having bad luck with Leupold and good luck with other scopes means I lack experience, but whatever. I've had several scopes and the Leupold VX-I's I have are the only ones I've ever had issues with. Some weren't my favorite so I sold or traded them, but they worked fine. I have a Bushnell Elite Tactical too, and to be honest, I'm not in love with it either. However, it works. The glass is decent, but not all that much better than the Leupold. It is better, but not a night and day difference. The adjustments are positive and feel great, however, they don't seem to track exactly true. They are close, but not exact. It's a pretty good scope overall, but it's just not for me. If someone asks me how the glass is, or how the adjustments are I will tell them, but I'm not going to tell people it's horrible just because it's not for me. It's a decent scope and it flat out works. The 2 Leupolds I've owned did in fact break and that's why I tell don't recommend them. |
Originally Posted by bigcountry
(Post 3719701)
Very true, if you search hard enough, you can find anyone to agree with you on the internet.
Everyone of them have pro's and con's. Leupold has long eye relief, but some like the fixed eye releif better. Nikon has a very sensitive sight window, but some love it because they are the closest to being parallax forgiving. Bushnell elites have a a sucky warranty compared to Leupold but less cost. I suggest before someone posts, they at least have used the product. Not just one VX-1. I'm not on here just talking **** about stuff I've never used even though you seem to think I am. That being said, you all are exactly right about people bashing stuff they have never used online. |
Originally Posted by bigcountry
(Post 3719701)
Very true, if you search hard enough, you can find anyone to agree with you on the internet.
Everyone of them have pro's and con's. Leupold has long eye relief, but some like the fixed eye releif better. Nikon has a very sensitive sight window, but some love it because they are the closest to being parallax forgiving. Bushnell elites have a a sucky warranty compared to Leupold but less cost. I suggest before someone posts, they at least have used the product. Not just one VX-1. |
Originally Posted by hometheaterman
(Post 3719722)
I don't think that all BAR's are inaccurate, but 98% of the people I've talked to online or in person claim the same experiences I've had. They have either traded them off because they were inaccurate, or found one load it likes, and that's it and have the rest shoot 5-6" groups. Now there are some like yours that are accurate, and in fact a hunting buddy got one this year that shoots pretty good. However, that still doesn't change the fact that 98% of the people I've talked to, or the ones I've seen have been pretty inaccurate, until finding a load it likes and then it's still only decent performance. I will mention that the majority of people I know with BAR's that have BOSS have a lot better luck, but the older ones don't have the BOSS either, so that doesn't really seem to matter too much.
I'm not sure how having bad luck with Leupold and good luck with other scopes means I lack experience, but whatever. I've had several scopes and the Leupold VX-I's I have are the only ones I've ever had issues with. Some weren't my favorite so I sold or traded them, but they worked fine. I have a Bushnell Elite Tactical too, and to be honest, I'm not in love with it either. |
Originally Posted by bigcountry
(Post 3719731)
Thank you for proving my point. Experience cannot be feigned. You searched the internet and found what you wanted to hear. Thank you again, you proved my point in spades.
Oh my goodness, this is priceless entertainment. So you went from owning one VX1 (this is what you said last year) now you say you own two. But now, you have owned an bushnell elite. How is life in that world? I didn't search the internet trying to find what I wanted to hear. I searched the internet trying to find a way to fix it. Basically what I found is that the forearm torque is critical, and other than that they can go from 5-6" groups with most ammo to 1.5" groups with ammo it likes and that you just need to find that. I did find ammo that shot 1.5" groups, but I've only found one ammo that shoots that well and everything else has shot 5-6" groups. That being said, 1.5" groups is still pretty crappy. I've also talked to Browning and their customer service reps will tell you that BAR's are not the most accurate guns in the world and that 2" groups are average. That's not good groups. Sorry. I think the guys at Browning know more than you. Last year I did only own one VX-I. I have bought another one since as I got it cheap from a buddy that also thought it sucked, and also ended up selling that one after comparing it and seeing it was no better. Just because I haven't posted up all the scopes I've owned in my life doesn't mean that the Leupolds are the only two I've owned. Sorry, but I see no reason to keep 20 scopes on hand when I don't have 20 guns. Just because you have a ton of guys, doesn't mean you know anymore about them than someone who owns one or two guns with one or two scopes. Sorry, but I see no reason to own that many guns, nor do I see a reason to own that many scopes. I have however, bought several scopes at good prices, tried them out, and if I haven't loved them, I sell them. I don't really see a better way to get experience with them than that. While there are some guys online that I've read their experiences and they don't match mine at all, there are a few trusted members at sites who's experiences match mine exactly with every scope I've tried that they have reviewed. That makes me tend to trust their opinion on other scopes too. Go to OpticsTalk.com or Snipershide.com and you can talk to guys that are serious into optics, and most of them think Leupold's are a joke. Having the experience I've had with 2 of them for myself, and then hearing all of their experiences doesn't tend to make me think, "gee, I should buy 15 more of these to try and see if they are as crappy as my the 2 I've had and as crappy as the other guys that have owned them say". Maybe that's what goes through your had when you have a product that doesn't work, but it's not what goes through mine. I also don't want some uninformed buyer buying one unexpectedly only to find out it's crap. That's why I tell him my experience. If he wants to try one anyway, that's 100% fine with me. I will at least know that if he is disappointed, that he was warned first. If he isn't disappointed, that's great and I'm happy for him. |
Originally Posted by hometheaterman
(Post 3719741)
So you think for me to figure out if the majority of BAR's are accurate or not that I need to buy a ton? Owning one and getting experience from that, then listening to the experience of others that also own them isn't the thing to do? Sorry, but I don't see why I'd buy another gun just to see if it's any more accurate when the first one isn't, and the majority of guys I've talked to claim theirs isn't either.
I didn't search the internet trying to find what I wanted to hear. I searched the internet trying to find a way to fix it. Basically what I found is that the forearm torque is critical, and other than that they can go from 5-6" groups with most ammo to 1.5" groups with ammo it likes and that you just need to find that. I did find ammo that shot 1.5" groups, but I've only found one ammo that shoots that well and everything else has shot 5-6" groups. That being said, 1.5" groups is still pretty crappy. I've also talked to Browning and their customer service reps will tell you that BAR's are not the most accurate guns in the world and that 2" groups are average. That's not good groups. Sorry. I think the guys at Browning know more than you. Last year I did only own one VX-I. I have bought another one since as I got it cheap from a buddy that also thought it sucked, and also ended up selling that one after comparing it and seeing it was no better. Just because I haven't posted up all the scopes I've owned in my life doesn't mean that the Leupolds are the only two I've owned. Sorry, but I see no reason to keep 20 scopes on hand when I don't have 20 guns. Just because you have a ton of guys, doesn't mean you know anymore about them than someone who owns one or two guns with one or two scopes. Sorry, but I see no reason to own that many guns, nor do I see a reason to own that many scopes. I have however, bought several scopes at good prices, tried them out, and if I haven't loved them, I sell them. I don't really see a better way to get experience with them than that. While there are some guys online that I've read their experiences and they don't match mine at all, there are a few trusted members at sites who's experiences match mine exactly with every scope I've tried that they have reviewed. That makes me tend to trust their opinion on other scopes too. Go to OpticsTalk.com or Snipershide.com and you can talk to guys that are serious into optics, and most of them think Leupold's are a joke. Having the experience I've had with 2 of them for myself, and then hearing all of their experiences doesn't tend to make me think, "gee, I should buy 15 more of these to try and see if they are as crappy as my the 2 I've had and as crappy as the other guys that have owned them say". Maybe that's what goes through your had when you have a product that doesn't work, but it's not what goes through mine. I also don't want some uninformed buyer buying one unexpectedly only to find out it's crap. That's why I tell him my experience. If he wants to try one anyway, that's 100% fine with me. I will at least know that if he is disappointed, that he was warned first. If he isn't disappointed, that's great and I'm happy for him. |
So experiences backed by research aren't good enough for you? What would you want a person to do to properly evaluate a product? Just curious?
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I also have to ask, what facts to you have to back up your theory on which scopes are good?
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One thing nobody has brought up is whether or not the op is actually sighting in at the same distance from time to time. There can be a big difference in clicks if the yardage is only 85 yards compared to 115 instead of a steady 100 yards that most big game scopes are rated at for their click adjustment system.
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Originally Posted by Jacob Garrett
(Post 3718730)
Is there a scope on the market that the click adjustments actually move the right amout, will hold up on a 30-06 for years, will stay put once adjusted, you can see thru at dawn and dusk, nice clear glass, ect. I just want one that works right overall. I have tried a few and have been disappointed. Seems like I have to get a new scope every 1-2 years and I am tired of buying them. I am looking for a good scope that you don't have to take out a second mortgage to buy. I am looking to stay under $600 or so. 3-9x40 or a 4-12x40. Any suggestions?
Also NO Leupolds! I have had 3 of them over the years. Two VX-II and one VX-III and they are lousy. For the money I had rather have a Tasco. |
" I know the ammo changes the POI but the scope won't move the POI consistently. If you click it 4 clicks it might move anywhere from 1/4in to 2in with the 4 clicks instead of 1in like its supposed to. "
In order to get a scope to work perfectly as you describe then you also need it to be on a rifle that is MORE accurate than your adjustments. You are probably experiencing such disappointment with your scopes because you are expecting 1/4moa adjustments from guns or shooters that shoot 2 or 3 moa. The best you can hope for is to be shooting groups of 5 and then determining the center of the group and adjusting from there. But expecting to walk bullets across your target at 1/4 moa angle increments when the gun isn't a 1/4moa gun and the shooter isn't a 1/4 moa shooter is a sure recipe for disapointment. I don't think there is a scope in the world that would satisfy someone like you and certainly not on whatever gun you are using. ( If your gun and you are 1.5 moa shooters and thus can shoot a bullet somewhere within a 1.5 inch circle at 100yds how do you know the next 1/4 moa adjustment didn't worked if its still within the same circle?) Still trying to figure out how you determined none of the scopes work right. Maybe a little more info on your shooting procedure would help everyone get you a better response. Take care. |
WOW! Whole post turned into a pissing match! I don't want another Leupold and the Leupold loyalists came out of the wood work. I had just as soon spend $50 on a cheap Tasco than buy another Leupold. I think there WAY over priced. I use the same distance each time I shoot and all of the scopes I have owned have been 1/4in or 1/8in per click. I just hope one day I can be as all knowing about everything scope related as a couple of you that have yet to make a useful post in this thread.
I appreciate all the useful info and suggestions from the ones that didn't hijack this thread. Thanks. To the rest of you mabey y'all should try acting like adults. It's not that hard. |
Haha! Two more useless posts. This one and the one above it! :rolleye0011:
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Originally Posted by Jacob Garrett
(Post 3720120)
Haha! Two more useless posts. This one and the one above it! :rolleye0011:
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Originally Posted by Jacob Garrett
(Post 3719211)
DDMPrecision I think you misunderstood my post. I know the ammo changes the POI but the scope won't move the POI consistently. If you click it 4 clicks it might move anywhere from 1/4in to 2in with the 4 clicks instead of 1in like its supposed to.
As I mentioned, I'd be happy to buy it from you so you can go get something that you'd like better. I say this because in my own experience, the only things that I have ever had knock my leupold scopes out of zero was airline baggage handlers and my ex-wife tossing my rifle case around like a sack of potatoes. Hence, she's my EX. One other thing I would check is the bolt lugs, and how they mesh onto the chamber lugs. A black sharpie does the trick - blacken the lug locking surfaces with the sharpie, then cycle the bolt ONCE. The majority of the ink should be gone, indicating where the two faces touch. If there's still a lot of ink on one of them, then you have bolt issues that should be easily resolved by lapping the lugs. Bolt face flex might cause similar conditions to what you've described, too. |
Originally Posted by Jacob Garrett
(Post 3720120)
Haha! Two more useless posts. This one and the one above it! :rolleye0011:
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Originally Posted by hometheaterman
(Post 3719751)
So experiences backed by research aren't good enough for you? What would you want a person to do to properly evaluate a product? Just curious?
I mean who would hire a nascar driver that only raced one car but did a lot of research on the internet? |
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