Go Back  HuntingNet.com Forums > Firearms Forum > Reloading
I just had a rather interesting discussion >

I just had a rather interesting discussion

Reloading Share techniques for reloading, where to get the hottest in reloading equipment and learn how to reload from fellow hunters.

I just had a rather interesting discussion

Reply

Old 10-13-2019, 01:51 PM
  #1  
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: fla
Posts: 678
Default I just had a rather interesting discussion

I had brought a browning BLR in caliber 450 marlin

to confirm the rifles zero, the load used was a 405 remington bullet over 50 grains of imr 3031 and a 215 fed primer
Ive found this to be one of the most accurate loads in my BLR and it certainly is effective even at 200 yards
I speer makes and sells a very similar projectile
https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/...le-bullet/2479
400 Remington soft point IMR IMR-3031 50.0 1,840
Remarks: 40,000 psi; compressed powder charge (VERY ACCURATE)

Ive found this to be entirely adequate for hunting all big game here in florida or for hunting thick timber for elk out west


the guy on the next bench, was sighting in a 6.5MM creedmore with a 24" barrel, and HE just had to point out the flaws in my old foggy lever action rifle and cartridge selection, I listened for 15 minutes not really wanting to interupt.. just smiling
(he looked like he was about 20-23 years old)with experience, you come to accept that , voicing any opposing views to complete strangers about their choices would be a total waste of time and effort.
I just complimented him on his obviously newly purchased rifle and wished him the best of luck,
but in the back of my mind I was laughing....I knew the experience in the field would eventually catch up,
when I started hunting almost everyone wanted a 7mm mag or 300 mag,
40 years later almost all the guys I hunt with use a 270 win, 257 roberts, , 30/06 308 win, 358 win or 35 whelen
its been 3 plus decades since I had the opportunity to make a shot at ranges over 250 yards, and while Im sure he will be well armed , I know from 5 decades of hunting
that most big game is not especially suicidal and tends to stay in the timber and brush areas and while all the pictures in magazines and articles,
make it seem like if you can,t punch holes in a quarter at 400 yards your not well armed, I can,t remember having and issues dropping game even with a rifle that only holds a 2" 100-yard group.
and most people get a false sense of security shooting tiny groups off a bench rest, once in the field those tiny groups, unexpectedly tend to expand noticeably
I've certainly seen more than a score of gentlemen, over the decades, I went hunting with, who could shoot those tiny bench rest groups fail to hit deer or elk
once they were shooting from quickly acquired field positions, even at ranges that were absurdly short, for a rifle (well under 50 yards on running big game.)





Last edited by hardcastonly; 10-14-2019 at 03:54 AM.
hardcastonly is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 07:27 AM
  #2  
Nontypical Buck
 
Nomercy448's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,366
Default

Feels an awful lot like agist virtue signaling. Maybe I missed the part where you shared aspects of any interesting discussion with your fellow shooter? Could you not have asked if the shooter had tried anything before his new rifle? Could you not have shared respect for your fellow shooter by supporting the virtues of his cartridge? Could you not have offered to let the new shooter take a few shots with your rifle which obviously would have been a unique experience he might otherwise never have opportunity to take?
Nomercy448 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 11:13 AM
  #3  
Boone & Crockett
 
bronko22000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 11,464
Default

I don't know how to answer this thread without stepping on some toes. But I'm going to try anyway. First off I love my lever guns. From my little .357 up to my big old .45-70 (of which I have 4 of). But I also like those flat shooting cartridges and those high end bolt rifles. I just got a nice Bergara in 6.5 CM that I'm tweaking loads for making it a 1/2 MOA shooter. I'm there now but still have some more testing and having a blast doing it. Hunting here in PA I'm usually packing one of my .45-70s or a muzzleloader. My shots rarely go beyond 100 yards and usually from a sitting position or offhand.
Hardcast I bet that those guys you "witnessed" shooting at game with their very accurate rifles either had one or two things going against them. They probably either never practiced shooting their rifles from field positions or they had a case of buck fever - or both.
I recall an old saying "Beware of the man with one rifle, he probably knows how to use it." I really don't know how many rifles I have. But I do know that I know how to shoot them all. Because I practice with them a lot. Not as much as I used to. But often enough to keep sharp.
As for shooting running game, I used to do that in my wild younger days. But at my age I don't need to kill anything to have a successful hunt. The only time I will shoot at running big game now is if I wound it. I can't abide someone who hits an animal in the vitals and watches it stumble around just so they can say it was a one shot kill. Shoot the poor thing again. Give it some respect.
bronko22000 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 11:52 AM
  #4  
Nontypical Buck
 
Nomercy448's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,366
Default

@bronco22000 - I agree about that old adage about the man with one rifle.

As counter-evidence to disprove that old yarn, I offer two observations:

1) Most guys I have met who only own one rifle are a long ways from what I would consider to be skilled or knowledgeable riflemen. Most of these guys just keep “Trusty Rusty” in the back of the closet, shoot a few times each year to “make sure it’s still on,” and then go shoot a couple deer to fill the freezer, and they wouldn’t know the difference between primary extraction and parallax if it bit them in the @ss.

2) Everyone I have ever met who has been undeniably a master in their craft is immersed within it. Guitarists, riflemen, cyclists, archers, artists, photographers... any of these I have ever met with a mastery of their craft had a lot more than a casual investment into it, such they might have 3 or 4 guitars on the wall, 2 or three camera bodies and countless lenses, two or three bikes for different ride experiences, etc. If folks really care about something, they surround themselves with it, and when folks want to master a craft, immersion is required.

Refusing to admit advantages of other gear, and propping up implied ad hominem insults as straw men doesn’t actually persuade favor to your side. Putting that old BLR in 450 M in the hands of an inexperienced shooter or hunter won’t make them a better shooter or hunter. It’s silly to pretend a less precise platform, with more recoil, and with a trajectory more difficult to manage is an advantage, and it’s silly to pretend all of those real disadvantages do not exist.

Many things can and do work in the field, but this game of folks sitting around and patting themselves on their back for knowing more or having more experience, and refusing to share that information to the advancement of others following behind them is embarrassing.
Nomercy448 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 11:53 AM
  #5  
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: fla
Posts: 678
Default

"Hardcast I bet that those guys you "witnessed" shooting at game with their very accurate rifles either had one or two things going against them. They probably either never practiced shooting their rifles from field positions or they had a case of buck fever - or both."
your 100% correct, its almost comical at times watching even rather experienced hunters, reactions too the first time they see their first mule deer or elk running through the aspens.
most guys go through this at least once, my main hunting partner for 3 decades shot at his first mule deer, 4 times before hitting it once, and I doubt the range exceeded 90 yards on the last shot, the first was closer to 60 yards, and when it dropped he ran directly to it.......
the problem was he was that he shot that deer while he was standing on the edge of a 10-12 foot drop off a rim rock ledge at that instant, luckly the fall hurt his pride more than anything else.
its examples of minor screw-ups and stories that get told after hunts for decades that make hunting fun.
I have long ago learned that almost any rifle in well-practiced hands works, and I certainly have no doubt a smaller caliber like a 25/06 or 6.5mm or even a 243 win in skilled hands works,
but I find it amusing when someone is convinced he found the one and only holy grail of a rifle and feels he is a bit obligated to convert the ignorant fools that have yet to see the obvious merits ..
I've used a BLR in 257 Roberts, a Ruger single shot in 257 Weatherby, a 30/06, a 358 win and a 340 wby, even a 45/70 with similar results, so Im certainly not about to suggest there's an ideal caliber or rifle
It may be that over 50 plus years of hunting I've learned a few things along the way,
but I learned to smile and not really debate anyone's choices in equipment, what works for them may not be ideal in my opinion, but that's not relevant,
if it works, for them, it might be ideal for them.
If I were going to hunt any area I was totally unfamiliar with Id grab my 340 wby almost every time, the 450 marlin lacks the flat trajectory and longer range punch to be a universal rifle,
but its also not as instinctively quick & handy to use when your hunting where you know shots over 100 yards are very rare, as the BLR is in my opinion

btw I did suggest he try a couple of shots with my BLR..
he looked at the cartridges on the bench and declined to try a couple shots

Last edited by hardcastonly; 10-14-2019 at 04:22 PM.
hardcastonly is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 12:48 PM
  #6  
Spike
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: SE CT
Posts: 36
Default

I have had a similar experience as the OP at my Club's range. The young fellow was shooting a Black semi-auto rifle from the bench, and I was shooting my .54 caliber Rocky Mountain Hawken rifle from the off-hand position. The young fellow aske why I shot an old smoke belching rifle like that when there were so many more modern firearms. I told him that at my age I have gone thru all the phases of shooting from rifles to handguns, semi-autos to singleshots and wheel guns. I now find it more relaxing to shoot a muzzleloader. I can shoot all day at the range and most likely not shoot over 60 rounds, where as I pointed to the pile of spent brass the young fellow had on the ground from just about an hour of shooting. I offered to let him try my rifle. I showed him how to load it, explained what sight picture to use and how the set triggers work.His first shot was in the 8 ring on the 50 yard target from off-hand. He loved the set trigger, and he said the weight of the barrel helped him hold steadier. After taking 4 more shots, he was hooked. He starting asking me all kinds of questions regarding shooting muzzleloaders. He now is hooked on them. I helped him pick out his first percussion gun, and now he is spending time at the range with it so he can use it for deer season. A convert is made. He really liked the fact that it was so much cheaper to shoot that his "AR", and he liked being able to see the holes in the target with out using a scope.(Bless his young eyes)
Fyrstyk54 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2019, 02:44 PM
  #7  
Nontypical Buck
 
Big Uncle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,604
Default

It seems that often it is the guy that knows the least that speaks the most.

I have had the young "true believers" attempt to enlighten me at the shooting range on the subjects of cartridges, optics, ladder testing, rifles, handguns, reloading, politics, etc.

I have played a lot of golf and it is fairly common knowledge that poor golfers are much more apt to offer unsolicited advice than good golfers. One fellow I often partner with is a scratch golfer (that means he is quite good) and I have seen hackers (that means they are quite bad) that could not break 100 give him advice on his grip, stance, club selection, etc. It is really pretty funny. You just smile, enjoy the day, and buy them a beer at the clubhouse afterwards.
Big Uncle is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2019, 07:20 AM
  #8  
Boone & Crockett
 
bronko22000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 11,464
Default

Actually I'm starting to get interested in long range shooting (not hunting) and even in my older years I am finding out a lot of new things about load development from these younger shooters. Ladder testing is one of them. So is Optimal Charge Weight (OCW). I used to do the same as a lot of you do. Load up different charges, go to the range and shoot 5 shot groups at 100 yards, pick out the best group and start loading it. That's the way I've done it for years. Well friends I'm here to tell you that ain't the best way to do it. Yes you may get lucky once in a while but that load may work great up to 100, even 200 yards which is good enough for 99.9% of the shooters out there. But it isn't always the most consistent load once you get out to about 300 yards and beyond. I'm no expert on this long range stuff but I'm learning more and more every day. Here's an example of what I am talking about. Below is a target I shot last week at 100 yards out of my new rifle. Now this group consists of 9 shots with charges from 40.0 gr to 42.6 gr in increasing increments. This group could likely have even been better had I been concentrating on the little diamond in the center. But this target dot was simply an aiming point to get velocities while shooting through my chronograph for load development. That is a 1.5" target dot. So far I have this rifle shooting 0.5 MOA but hoping to get it even better. The average shooter would be tickled pink shooting a group like this. And this was with a charge difference of over 2.5 grs. Within this range however, based on velocities obtained, I was able to find an area between the rounds of different charge weights where my load will be the most stable.
So you see gentlemen - Old dogs can learn new tricks!
Attached Thumbnails I just had a rather interesting discussion-6.5-cm.jpg  

Last edited by bronko22000; 10-15-2019 at 11:32 AM.
bronko22000 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2019, 10:05 AM
  #9  
Super Moderator
 
Bocajnala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Trumbull County, Ohio
Posts: 7,306
Default

But, only if you're willing to. And like bronko was getting at- 90% of Hunters could get by with one big game rifle and factory ammo.

And fill their freezer every year

​​​​​​-Jake

Last edited by Bocajnala; 10-15-2019 at 10:08 AM.
Bocajnala is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2019, 03:01 PM
  #10  
Boone & Crockett
 
Oldtimr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: south eastern PA
Posts: 11,735
Default

Originally Posted by Nomercy448 View Post
Feels an awful lot like agist virtue signaling. Maybe I missed the part where you shared aspects of any interesting discussion with your fellow shooter? Could you not have asked if the shooter had tried anything before his new rifle? Could you not have shared respect for your fellow shooter by supporting the virtues of his cartridge? Could you not have offered to let the new shooter take a few shots with your rifle which obviously would have been a unique experience he might otherwise never have opportunity to take?

You know I doubt I would have done any of that and I have helped a lot of people in the shooting sports in my time both young and old, and still am. If a new obviously neophyte would start to tell me how my firearm was deficient I probably would have done the same thing as the OP. Had the neophyte asked questions I would have tried to help him understand however if he had proceeded to try to school me, I would have just smiled and ignored him like the OP did. The OP owed no courtesy to the neophyte since he knew it all!

Last edited by Oldtimr; 10-19-2019 at 03:04 PM.
Oldtimr is offline  
Reply With Quote

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service