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Old 06-02-2019, 05:08 PM
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Members - I had loaded some cast bullets with two different loads using my cast bullets for my .45-70 Marlin 1895 Cowboy. One with IMR4064 and another with IMR3031. Those with the 4064 shot great but the ones with 3031 the groups were 3x bigger! So I figured instead of wasting the bullets and powder just shooting them off I would pull them with my inertia puller when I got home. In doing so I noticed that the veggie wads on most of the bullets were really stuck to the bullets even though I made sure I wiped the bullet bases off with mineral spirits to remove any lube and they had several days to dry. I'm not really sure if these wads would come off during firing or not or if they would have any effect on accuracy even if they didn't. After all they are the same size or slightly smaller than the bullet itself.
What's your opinion?
As someone told me earlier, a pinch of cotton between the wad and the bullet is sometimes used. Is this the reason for using the cotton? Or would I be better off having the wad in contact with the bullet base?
I'm heading up to the cabin for a couple days so I won't be able to see any responses until I get back.

Last edited by bronko22000; 06-02-2019 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 06-03-2019, 06:52 AM
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the very small and barely there at all, pinch of cotton ball fiber if its used is simply there to keep the powder charge near the primer,
the fiber patch/circular wad is less than 1/16" thick in most cases and on firing is going to, be or should be in contact with the bullet base
,and follow the bullet like a gas check of sorts, yes in some cases its going to stick to the base of the projectile,
this has no negative effect on accuracy that Ive ever seen, wads may or may not help accuracy
minor changes in primers, powder charges and lube use can ALL individually have an effect on accuracy,
so take accurate notes on what DOES and DOES NOT work.
lets say your using 40 grains of imr 3031 and your not happy with accuracy
you may find swapping to a winchester or federal mag primer,
or to a standard non-magnum winchester or federal primer
or boosting or reducing the powder charge a few grains,
Ive had generally inconsistent accuracy with remington primers
cci and alcan work ok in most but not as well as winchester and federal in my experience.
a different over all cartridge length,or adding a wisp of cotton over the powder helps maintain accuracy
has a major effect on consistency or accuracy
different burn rates will effect the way the bullet grips the rifling and stabilizes
changes in powder charge and primer will effect accuracy.

btw imr 3031 being a faster burning powder than imr 4064 youll generally find the slower burn powder requires a heavier charge weight to build similar pressure and velocity
thus to get the bullet to seat in the rifling in a similar way, the charge of 4064 will generally be a bit higher to get similar accuracy,
if the 3031 is not accurate but the 4064 is you might find reducing the charge of 3031 helps, try boosting and reducing charges and changing primers youll be amazed at what minor changes tend too do to results



https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/...70/1/WAD-430-A

Last edited by hardcastonly; 06-04-2019 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 06-05-2019, 01:23 PM
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Hardcast I looked at the burn rate chart. I did load the slower 3031 with 2 more grains and good golly did it give me a thump on the shoulder compared to the 4064 charge. The 50 gr of 4064 was pleasant to shoot but the 52 gr of 3031 put 2 black and blue marks on my shoulder. That Marlin Cowboy doesn't have a recoil pad, just a solid plastic butt plate.
I just might try and drop the 4064 charge down one grain and also up one grain from 50 grs and see what happens.
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Old 06-05-2019, 02:10 PM
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3031 IS FASTER burning,
(NUMBER 80 on the chart)
it will require LESS 3031 powder to peak at similar pressures faster.
52 grains of imr 3031 is a much higher pressure load than a similar charge of 4064 (number 96 on the chart)

Last edited by hardcastonly; 06-05-2019 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 06-05-2019, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by hardcastonly View Post
3031 IS FASTER burning,
(NUMBER 80 on the chart)
it will require LESS 3031 powder to peak at similar pressures faster.
52 grains of imr 3031 is a much higher pressure load than a similar charge of 4064 (number 96 on the chart)
Yes you're correct. I was reading the chart backwards (slower to faster). That would explain the thumping I took! But I was still in the "safe" zone with my Marlin because I referred to two different manuals which I normally do just as a precaution.
I just loaded up 10 rounds each of 49 and 51 gr of IMR4064 to see how they shoot compared to the 50 gr charge earlier. From a cold clean barrel, open sights, 60 yards the 50 gr load shot about 1.5". That might be as good as I'm gonna get which isn't all that bad.

I was doing some more researching on this and I think I'm also going to load a couple up with 45 gr of IMR4198 and try that.

Last edited by bronko22000; 06-05-2019 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 06-06-2019, 05:54 AM
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if you have a marlin 45/70 you certainly will benefit from casting and reloading your own bullets and ammo,
you can reduce the cost of ammo by over 60%, this rapidly pays for, or amortizes the cost of the molds and other components
I can certainly recommend, you do so and use a lead alloy of 95% wheel weights and 5% pure tin,
and use gas check bullets in the 300-400 grain range, with the 300-350 grain being the preferred weights for deer hunting in my experience.
I think youll find 45 grains of imr 4198 to be a very decent load, I used that with a 350 grain 45/70 for decades in my marlin for deer hunting
you might also try 45 grains of RL7 another well known accurate load with the 350 grain cast bullet
start with a 40 grain powder charge , and work up with either powder used 1 grain at a time,
a couple guys I load for both found the 40-41 grain powder charger more accurate in their marlin 45/70 rifles with that bullet and unlike my marlin,
they got better accuracy with the lower powder charge.
don,t worry about power or penetration even at a 40 grain charge it zips through deer effortlessly, even with velocity in the 1400-1500 fps range
all of us generally sight in to hit a couple inches high at 100 yards making hits on deer out to 150 yards very easy.
Id point out that worrying about long range trajectory is wasted time its been decades since Ive shot, or had the opportunity too shoot, a white tail deer at over 150 yards,
keep in mind hunting in florida may differ from other areas, but around here shots over 100 yards are rarer that honest politicians that never break a promise







http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/index.html

theres also a 300 grain mold that works rather well with similar charges of those powders in a 45/70 if reduced recoil is preferred



https://www.midwayusa.com/product/17...nose-gas-check

Last edited by hardcastonly; 06-07-2019 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 06-06-2019, 08:43 AM
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back when I was far younger we would load up some ammo,
we could get scrap lead a dozen places for 5-15 cents a lb,
and it was very easy to find a large open rural area to go shoot.
this made working up loads and finding what worked well,
thus gaining valuable experience, far easier than it is today,
when even finding a decent outdoor range can be difficult.
back in the 1960s-70s Id be out at the local dump or out in the rural everglades,
and shooting a few tin cans, cops might show up, they might watch or,
even join you in punching holes in a few tin cans, on a canal bank or berm.
now if you even try to shoot a few shots to check out your handloads,
at anyplace but a recognized rifle range the local cops treat you like a budding terrorist.
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Old 06-06-2019, 10:52 AM
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I know. I spend the winters in Clermont and I gave up trying to find a place to shoot. I'm chomping at the bit until I get back here to PA in mid-May. I live in the anthracite coal region and we shoot in the stripping pits. The cops never bother us. I do belong to a couple gun clubs but its much more convenient to load my gear in the truck and drive 1/2 mile to a pit where I can shoot out to 300+ yards if I want. BTW, I have 3 Marlin 1895s: a Cowboy, A Guide Gun (early model with ported barrel) and a 1895SBL (Stainless Big Loop) with gray stock.
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Old 06-07-2019, 12:38 PM
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OK I initially loaded 50 gr of IMR4064 that shot pretty good. I made up some other loads with 49 gr and 51 gr of IMR4064 and another load of 45 gr of H4198. The 49 gr load shot pretty good but the 51 gr load was horrible and so was the H4198 load. I did notice before that the rifle is very finicky when the barrel becomes hot. So I would fire a 3 shot group and let it cool while I shot another gun. 49 gr shot right about 1.5" same as the earlier 50 gr charge. But 51 gr opened up to about 6". The 4198 wasn't too awful bad at about 2.5" but it was about 8" higher than my other loads.
Looks like I'll be staying with the 50 gr of IMR4064. I'm going to try one more thing and that's Hornady 300 gr jacketed bullets just for kicks. That's what I shoot out of my Guide Gun and My SBL. I really want to shoot cast bullets out of this 1895 Cowboy
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Old 06-07-2019, 12:49 PM
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Id try dropping the charge of powder to 40 , 43 and also try 45 grains of IMR 4198, (RL7 with similar charges,also works in many cases)
with a 350 grain cast bullet, gas check designs in my opinion and experience tend to provide better average accuracy,
use of a wad over the powder loaded firmly against the gas check, may provide some extra accuracy potential,
you may be amazed at the difference in accuracy.
yes Ive used at least 7-8 350-405 grain cast bullet designs.
the 400 grains are good the 350 grain cast gas check designs tend to be more accurate in my experience in the marlin 45/70 rifles
and magnum rifle primers are not always as accurate as standard rifle primers
you may be amazed at what a bit of experimentation in bullet seating, depth,
projectile sized and lube diameter ,and power charge can accomplish
( bullets sized and lubed .459-.460 tend to work rather well)

Ive tried many combos but in my experience , your generally not going to get anywhere near max accuracy at near max velocity
but you you can get impressive accuracy through careful experimentation and taking accurate notes on results

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...cks-1000-count
http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/index.html


https://www.midwayusa.com/product/17...nose-gas-check

Last edited by hardcastonly; 06-07-2019 at 01:18 PM.
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