hello all.
since theres not a general ammo section I figured reloading forum would reward me with the most intelligent responses. this post may be long but please bear with me.... here goes.


I have quite a tripod stand in one of my hunting areas that allows me to take shots from 170 yards out to 350 yards plus.
So far I have taken 4 deer this season ( two 6 points and 2 does)

...problem is I have shot at 7 deer total.

yes, sadly in the past week I have lost or missed 3 in this stand at ranges of between 220-260 yards. the last one being what seemd to be an 8 point or larger today. something is not right and i need to start elimnating possibilities, I am led to believe my ammo may be inadequate

all 3 deer acted hit and all 3 shots felt solid and dead on but no blood to be found and no deer either (please do not assume I am not looking hard enough as I assure you thats not the case).

i have never had a problem with losing deer until this year (they really have all pretty much dropped or if they ran i always found them) but then again I havent been trying to take deer outside of the 100 yard range until this year as I didnt have an area that would allow it.

I can tear up a target at 250 yards no problem. I have a busnell elite 3200(very good scope for what it costs) with ballistic reticle that allows me to use multiple crosshairs, and with the bullet I am using the second ballistic notch in the reticle puts me on bullseye at 250.

the bullets I am using are .308 federal 150 grains with the green nosler tip.

One of my six points I took at 200 yards with this bullet had no blood trail and ran over 50 yards into the woods from the point in which I shot him.
The only reason I didnt have a problem finding him is because luckily he had gathered a crowd of does in the woods and I busted them out trying to find him which gave away his position.
I traced him back to where I shot him and couldnt find any blood until 10-15 yards before he piled up.

this bullet just doesnt seem to be very effective at long ranges.

I chose 150 grain because I figured the lighter bullet would carry longer distances better and flatter but i am starting to wonder if i made an error in judgement and maybe a heavier bullet would deliver more energy thus causing more knockdown. whats the general consensus on the proper bullet weight for long range shooting?

I need guidance on what bullet and weight (150, 165, 180) would be right for my application. handloaded or commercial.

I have used silvertips with much success but I dont like their tendency to explode on a twig so Id like to find something that will stay together good and still give a good whomp on the big end.

I have been looking at these copper bullets like the barnes MRX, but there maybe better choices out there. fwiw, I dont mind paying $40 for a box of ammo or $20 for a box of bullets If it gives me the piece of mind I am going to have a clean kill and wont be mutliating deer .

TIA

It's tough to say what the problem may be. I have a hard time believing that if you're hitting these deer there isn't any blood at all. But if you're convinced you are hitting them and the bullet isn't cutting it or giving you the confidence you want than switch to the Federal 150 gr. Nosler partition or the Federal 150 gr. Nosler Solid Base BT. It's designed specifically for your situation.

One question I would ask would be how long you have been using that ammo?

If you have practiced with the ammo, and know how well it shoots, and where it hits, then I would bet you are hitting where you are aiming. I can only think of two possibilities.

1. The bullet is extremely fragile and fragmenting before it can exit,

2. The .308 doesn't have enough velocity to push the bullet the whole way through the animal.

I have not seen much blood come from and entrance hole, except with extremely fast cartridges, which the .308 is not.

I think the weight of bullet is fine for deer out to those distances.

I would look at getting a better designed bullet.

Try the Hdy Interbond, Federal Nos Accubond, Nosler Partition, Barnes TSX, etc. Get a box of a few and see which oneis more accurate.

You may not get drop in the tracks results, (especially with that cartridge at longer ranges), but you may get complete penetration, and maybe a better blood trail from the exit wound.

Deer can go a surprising distance, and die in the most concealed spaces, so with no blood to lead you there they can be almostimpossible to find.

I've killed deer at 225+ yards with polymer tipped bullets. I'm inclined to think the bullet probably isn't the issue here.

The 150 grain weight is good out of a 308. A 165 would also be good for long range shooting and may give a little better penetration. Especially with the Nosler Ballistic Tips, the 165 could be a better choice because it would be more likely to exit and give you a good blood trail. I had the same problem with a nonexistent blood trail a couple years ago when I shot a mule deer at 320 yards with my 270 and 130 grain Power Points (which is similar to the Ballistic Tips on that it opens up very quickly.) The bullet hit perfectly, just behind the shoulder, but did not exit, and luckily the buck only went 30 to 40 yards straight down the hill and went down. But, I could not find one drop of blood anywhere, not even where the buck was laying. So I'm really of the opinion now that if you want a blood trail, you need an exit wound. The Nosler Partitions another poster mentioned will get the job done, and so will the Barnes Triple Shock. With the Barnes, definitely stay with the 150 instead of the 165.

I would try the Barnes 150 TSX. I would also stop shooting at those ranges until I get things figured out. I don't believe on expiermenting on live game.

yeah I have sighted in at 100 and have tested my rounds at 50, 100,150,200, and 250.

out to 150 yards my groups are overlapping, but at 200 and 250 they spread out to about 1.5- 2" groups. I am shooting thru a 16" barrel but not really sure to what degree that will affect long range performance.

I would go with a 165 gr. Nosler Partition, or even a Hornady 165 gr. SP or BT.Good luck.

I agree with brutal attack that you should try the Nosler Partition bullet. These will expand at nearly any range, and the base will go on through, at least making TWO holes for blood to come out of! This would be an especially good bullet to use in a 16" barrel, from which you are probably getting no more than 2500 FPS MV from that 150 grain load, as the Partition bullet's FRONT END is particularly frangible, designed to expand at long ranges and low velocities.

However, I would recommend that you use the 165-grain instead of the 150, because the 165's havebetter ballistic efficiency, thus retaining their initial velocity better. Test both Hornady Light Magnum and Federal Hi-Energy ammo to see if it is accurate enough in your gun for long-range shooting, because these loads start out with more energy.

Stick with what you got. 150gr bullistic tip, is about the most perfect bullet to use in your situation. Another would be hornady interlock. Usually the 150gr bullistic tipout of a 308 is the most expanding bullet you can get. Usually makes ablood trail a blind man can see. And most people do not use them for thier intended use which is what your doing, long range deer bullet. If you go to a barnes or partition, failsafe, TBBC, out of a 308, you might get even a less blood trail then you got now. They are awesome on moose I tell ya, but for deer, unless they are huge, its not the best bullet.

Usually, the complaint out of bullistic tips, is people shooting way too close and the bullet may fragment some. I know you don't want to hear it, but if the deer are running real far, your not getting a square lung/heart shot I don't believe, not matter what bullet.