Stone Cold(good handle),I expect to take some flak for this, but I say if you have doubts about hitting a deer at 400-500 yards with your 7mm Rem Mag(my 7 Rem Mag launches a 140 ballistic Tip at 3300 fps)an Ultra Mag isn't going to help much.Adding 200-300 fps to a given bullet isn't likely to make it a "whole" lot easier,but every little bit helps.

Rembo,

It is not the cartridge that I was worried about or the person shooting, I was worried about the rifle that I was shooting. I am shooting a Browning Bar Mark II (Auto). I don't find it groups as well as a bolt. So I figured if I am going to buy a bolt for this distance I might as well see what the best cartridge is.

Thanks

Stone, theres more than one way to skin a whitetail, consider this, I use this setup for powerline and open field hunting. Get an accurate rifle, something like a remington 700, chamber it for a non magnum cartridge that is easy to shoot, 280, 3006, something that wont make your fillings drop out of your teeth when you shoot it, mount a premier reticles leupold on it, and buy a Leica range finder. Ultra high velocity isnt the only way to make good hits at long ranges. The premier reticles scope is regulated for one particular load, so there is that drawback, but for me its much easier than trying to shoot a heavy magnum accurately. Something to consider.

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The comparison between these two is essentially the same as the comparison of any 7mm and .30 caliber rounds that have similar case capacities. The .30 will always shoot heavier, larger diameter bullets at equal or slightly higher velocities. Consequently, the .30 will always be a little more powerful at all ranges, provided the .30 is used with bullets of equal or higher ballistic coefficient. (This is not always the case, either!!) The .30's will also always have more recoil than the 7mm's at similar velocity levels. The question is, does shooting deer at 400 yards require the extra margin of the .30 magnum vs a 7mm? Answer. NO. But, if shooting elk, moose, or bigger bears, then the nod goes to the .30!! Good luck!!

Keep yore powder dry!!

Actually it may surprise some to know that at 300 and 400 yards a 160 lauched at 3100 from a 7 Rem Mag will shoot flatter and have more energy than a 180 from a 300 Win Mag at launched at 3100.

My Barnes ballistics program shows the following.

.284" 160,BC of .468 at 3100fps muzzle vel, 200 yard vero

300 yards,Velocity:2491,Energy:2204,Trajectory:-6.17"
400 yards,V.......:2306.E.....:1889,Trajectory:-17.95"

.308" 180,BC of .410 at 3100fps muzzle vel, 200 yard zero

300 yards,Velocity:2411,Energy:2066,Trajectory:-6.42"
400 yards,V.......:2206,E.....:1728,Trajectory:-18.84"

Now....you could load a 200 gr bullet in the 300 with a similiar BC to the 160 gr 284" and launch it at 3100 from an Ultra Mag or possibly from a long barrelled 300 Weatherby and it will keep up with the 160 .284" bullet and maybe surpass it.The only tradeoff is recoil.This is why the 7mm Rem Mag is such a good all around cartridge for average shooters. It has the energy and trajectory and the recoil is hardly more than a 270 or 30-06.But...I still like my 300 Win better, I have both.

rembo if you have your doubts about someone being able to hit a deer at 400-500yds consistantly go to a Marine Corps rifle range when I joined the USMC at 17 I couldnt beleave I was going to have to shoot a .223 with peep sights at 500yds at the rifle range. If you ever get to watch marines shoot youll see the hit a man target at that range all day long. Whats this got to do with 7mmRUM vise 300RUM. just this if the right guy is behind a rifle he knows how to shoot the long shots arn't unresonable and I really like the idea of having a gun that I know can reach out, if just by luck that 180BC walks out at say 475yds and stands still for just a sec................BTW I have had a 7mmSTW and now have a .300RUM and prefer the .300RUM for verious resons list earlyer

3DNWV

Edited by - 3DNWV on 10/29/2002 07:58:10

3DNWV, I have no doubts that anyone including "stonecold" can't hit a deer at 400 yards. The point I was trying to make was that if someone had doubts about hitting a deer at 400 yards+ with a 7mm Rem Mag, the 7 Ultra Mag wasn't going to guarantee a hit."stonecold" responded that the rifle was his concern, not the cartridge.I know that people shoot long range all the time.I have hit gophers at over 350 yards with a 22-250 and that's a pretty small target,so hitting a deer at 400 shouldn't be that hard if the shooter is up to the task.But it's a big "if".Adding a couple inches of trajectory is not going to make a shooter into a long range sniper.Practice and knowing your rifle and it's trajectory will.

Edited by - rembo on 10/29/2002 08:04:13

Edited by - rembo on 10/29/2002 08:05:06

Edited by - rembo on 10/29/2002 08:05:44

I shot a 300 ultra mag all last year and decided to try the 7 rum this year. So far to me there is no comparison, the 7 flat out shoots my 300. It has less recoil and less muzzle jump and from everything I have seen shoots flatter. Thats just my 2 cents!

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Actually it may surprise some to know that at 300 and 400 yards a 160 lauched at 3100 from a 7 Rem Mag will shoot flatter and have more energy than a 180 from a 300 Win Mag at launched at 3100.

My Barnes ballistics program shows the following.

.284&quot; 160,BC of .468 at 3100fps muzzle vel, 200 yard vero

300 yards,Velocity:2491,Energy:2204,Trajectory:-6.17&quot;
400 yards,V.......:2306.E.....:1889,Trajectory:-17.95&quot;

.308&quot; 180,BC of .410 at 3100fps muzzle vel, 200 yard zero

300 yards,Velocity:2411,Energy:2066,Trajectory:-6.42&quot;
400 yards,V.......:2206,E.....:1728,Trajectory:-18.84&quot;

Now....you could load a 200 gr bullet in the 300 with a similiar BC to the 160 gr 284&quot; and launch it at 3100 from an Ultra Mag or possibly from a long barrelled 300 Weatherby and it will keep up with the 160 .284&quot; bullet and maybe surpass it.The only tradeoff is recoil.This is why the 7mm Rem Mag is such a good all around cartridge for average shooters. It has the energy and trajectory and the recoil is hardly more than a 270 or 30-06.But...I still like my 300 Win better, I have both.


Problem is, it is quite difficult to launch a 160gr bullet from a 7mm Rem Mag at 3100fps. Realistically, you're looking at 2900fps from this cartridge with that bullet. The 7mm RUM, however, or even the 7mm Wby Mag, can do this with no problem. So can the .270 Wby Mag, and the .277 cal bullet, because of higher SD, hits with greater energy and a flatter trajectory than all the others.


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Good Dogwork and Good Hunting

Edited by - seattlesetters on 11/13/2002 01:10:39