Topgun 3006

Comparing the number of 2 & 4 shot in a 12 gauge with what the OP is asking about in a .410 with the few 00 pellets it has is rather ridiculous, especially with the "getting by with it" statement when we're talking about humanely killing any animal we shoot at!

Sheridan

topgun 3006; we're talking about humanely killing any animal we shoot at !

+1

x10.........

Murdy

I'd love to know what those conditions are?


"But do they even make .410s with anything but a full choke?"

That's a good question, they've been making .410s and .410 slugs for a long time. Not sure I've ever seen anything other than a full. I know I've shot more than a few through my old single shot. And also through an old Savage 12 gauge goose gun. Neither gun is worse the wear for it, but maybe I just got lucky.

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As for the original point, add me to the list of people who don't think it would do the job humanely.

Sheridan

Not sure if this is some personal debate, but certainly they make screw in chokes for 410 bore shotguns - Just to be clear................

Murdy

No debate; just pondering the question. After further research, seems like full is by far the most common, but not exclusive.

Oldtimr

There are 4 00 pellets in a 2 1/2 inch 410 shell and 5 in a 3 inshell. That from a pip squeak shell at what range? 30,40, 50 yards? It is really a bad idea.

Nomercy448

You really can't make this kind of statement about the 410 - the power/energy/momentum/Taylor KO factor is there, and its effectiveness at killing coyotes WHEN IT CONNECTS is well proven.

If a guy can connect with it, then shooting a coyote with 00 buck is about the same as shooting it 5 times with a 22WMR. The energy is there, and based on shot size, the Taylor KO factor is actually BETTER for the 410 buckshot than for the 22WMR by about 2x. A factor of 3x+ for the 22lr. I don't think many coyotes are going to argue with 5 hits from a 22wmr, so it's foolish to say that the 410 buckshot is UNDER POWERED.

The reality is that for any range beyond about 30yrds, those 5 pellets just aren't going to be hitting anything relevant. At 50yrds when the spread is the size of a trashcan lid and 3 out of 5 pellets miss and one hits it in the haunches and the other sticks in the shoulder, well, that dog's gonna run, without question.

At short ranges where your pattern could slip through a coffee can, then that's one dead dog.

It's not like the .410 is pumping shot out there so slow that you can see it in flight. 1200-1300fps with 55 or 70grns (00 and 000 respectively) will put a damper on whatever it finds. You just can't be certain that even ONE pellet will hit where you want in a shotgun, once your spread gets too big.

Oldtimr

Actually I can make that statement, a rifle is an entirely different animal, if you know the gun and where it shoots you can put a small bullet in the area you want it to go. With a 410 and a few pellets, you are doing a hail Mary every time you pull the trigger hoping a pellet will hit someplace vital and ten hope the animal doesn't run off and die. I qualified 3 times a year with a 12 gage and 00 buckshot and after 30 yards even the 9 pellets in a 12 ga 2 3/4 inches spread out so that many are not in a kill zone, I also was a police firearms instructor for a conservation agency and I know the limits of buckshot. Using a 410 with buckshot for the kinds of distances most coyotes are killed at would be ill advised at best. I will not say what it would be at worst. We should all strive to kill an animal as quickly as possible, we should not use something that is essentially shoot and hope and under normal circumstances coyotes will not be within a distance where anyone would have any right to have confidence of a quick kill. I don't care if it is only a coyote. Better to stay home than make do and have as many or more woumdings than kills. Feel free to disagree if you want, this is more about doing the right thing than about ballistics. Ruark said "use enough gun" I am an enthusiastic believer in that thought process.

Nomercy448

"Say what you mean, or mean what you say"....

I whole heartedly agree with your SECOND post that connecting with the 410, or any buckshot, is what really limits the range, which is exactly what I posted in my response. Your FIRST post, however, didn't say that. It said that the 410 is a "pip squeak," implying that it's underpowered for the job, which just isn't the case. We hear it said all the time, "a 22 in the eye is better than a 45 in the wall" (or in the arm, or in the leg, or wherever the "miss" happens to land), which really is what we're both saying. If you're shooting at ranges where the buckshot is patterned tightly enough that you know it's on target, then it'll do the job.

It's just not very far out there before it won't be patterned tightly enough anymore.

But that's not what a term like "pip squeak" is used for. The 410 has the power, just not the accuracy. I have no qualms with anybody calling out buckshot from any shotshell gauge as being range limited by its pattern - as that's a VERY REAL PROBLEM. But an underpowered pip squeak, it aint.

Having killed double, maybe triple digit numbers of coyotes at single digit ranges, including double digit number of coyotes with a 410 and 00 buckshot, I can vouch for the effectiveness, and I can attest to the limitations.

Hail mary, without a doubt, pip squeak, not so much...

Oldtimr

potato, potahto,.