Resources for improving Bow Shooting?
03-31-2003, 03:35 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Washington, IL
Posts: 45
Resources for improving Bow Shooting?
I do not know what is concidered a good shot group at various yards. Currently, I am at the following:
20 yards-A larger than the top of a coffee cup
30 yards-A sourcer plate
40 yards-A dinner plate
I believe the source of the problem is the person behind the bow. I know they have schools, but none in my area. I am interested in books, possibly videos. I have checkes with Barnes & Noble, but they have nothing available or that can be ordered. The local library has two books scheduled to be returned on April 7th. I have seen Idiot Proof Archery along with the price tag in Bowhunting World. If this is my best option by far then so be it, but is there is something a little more cost efficient?
20 yards-A larger than the top of a coffee cup
30 yards-A sourcer plate
40 yards-A dinner plate
I believe the source of the problem is the person behind the bow. I know they have schools, but none in my area. I am interested in books, possibly videos. I have checkes with Barnes & Noble, but they have nothing available or that can be ordered. The local library has two books scheduled to be returned on April 7th. I have seen Idiot Proof Archery along with the price tag in Bowhunting World. If this is my best option by far then so be it, but is there is something a little more cost efficient?
03-31-2003, 04:35 PM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Superior Wisconsin USA
Posts: 42
RE: Resources for improving Bow Shooting?
The groupings you mention aren' t bad, but they' re not good either - at twenty yards I' m looking at hitting dimes.
A good source for teaching is the NFAA. From their site you can access/purchase videos by Bernie (i forget his last name). He is a very good teacher. I have improved my shooting markedly from watching a couple of his tapes.
He has a tape for learning yardage estimation, which is one that I would give a thumbs down to.
The others are quite helpful.
A good source for teaching is the NFAA. From their site you can access/purchase videos by Bernie (i forget his last name). He is a very good teacher. I have improved my shooting markedly from watching a couple of his tapes.
He has a tape for learning yardage estimation, which is one that I would give a thumbs down to.
The others are quite helpful.
03-31-2003, 05:56 PM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: POMEROY OH USA(VIA WVA)
Posts: 149
RE: Resources for improving Bow Shooting?
NEW 2,
I WOULD SUGGEST PICKING UP BERNIES BOOK, $40.00 SPENT NOW CAN SAVE YOU ALOT OF ARROW MONEY LATER. I BOUGHT IT, AND NOT BEING A BOOK READER ANYWAY WITH A SHORT ATTENTION SPAN, I READ IT IN LESS THAN A WEEK. AS FOR THE VIDEOS, I COULDN' T TELL YOU. BUT I DONT THINK YOU WILL BE DISSAPPOINTED.
MY SUGGESTION TO YOU ON SHOOTING, (THIS WORKS FOR ME AND MAYBE YOU TOO) GET YOUR SIGHTS SET AT 20-30-40 ETC., THEN WARM UP AT YOUR CLOSEST UNTIL YOU GET SETTLED IN (FOR ME ITS USUALLY 50-100 SHOTS). THEN, SHOOT SOME AT EACH YARDAGE UNTIL YOU ARE HITTING ONE INCH SPOTS (OR SMALLER), BUT THE MAJORITY OF YOUR PRACTICE SHOULD BE AT 40 OR 50 YARDS, THIS WILL MAKE YOU HOLD MORE STEADY AT CLOSER DISTANCES. IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME, JUST TRY IT, BEFORE YOUR DONE FOR THE DAY SHOOT A QUIVER-FULL FROM TWENTY AND SEE IF YOU ARE NOT DRIVING NAILS. HOPE THIS HELPS. BUTCHB
I WOULD SUGGEST PICKING UP BERNIES BOOK, $40.00 SPENT NOW CAN SAVE YOU ALOT OF ARROW MONEY LATER. I BOUGHT IT, AND NOT BEING A BOOK READER ANYWAY WITH A SHORT ATTENTION SPAN, I READ IT IN LESS THAN A WEEK. AS FOR THE VIDEOS, I COULDN' T TELL YOU. BUT I DONT THINK YOU WILL BE DISSAPPOINTED.
MY SUGGESTION TO YOU ON SHOOTING, (THIS WORKS FOR ME AND MAYBE YOU TOO) GET YOUR SIGHTS SET AT 20-30-40 ETC., THEN WARM UP AT YOUR CLOSEST UNTIL YOU GET SETTLED IN (FOR ME ITS USUALLY 50-100 SHOTS). THEN, SHOOT SOME AT EACH YARDAGE UNTIL YOU ARE HITTING ONE INCH SPOTS (OR SMALLER), BUT THE MAJORITY OF YOUR PRACTICE SHOULD BE AT 40 OR 50 YARDS, THIS WILL MAKE YOU HOLD MORE STEADY AT CLOSER DISTANCES. IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME, JUST TRY IT, BEFORE YOUR DONE FOR THE DAY SHOOT A QUIVER-FULL FROM TWENTY AND SEE IF YOU ARE NOT DRIVING NAILS. HOPE THIS HELPS. BUTCHB
03-31-2003, 06:53 PM
#5
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: POMEROY OH USA(VIA WVA)
Posts: 149
RE: Resources for improving Bow Shooting?
THATS RIGHT, $40 DOESNT GO FAR ANYMORE WHEN ARROWS ARE INVOLVED, I REMEMBER (BACK IN THE DAY) THINKING ALUMINUM WAS COSTLY AT $40+ PER DOZEN, AND THAT WAS ONLY 6-7 YEARS AGO, NOW, IM PAYING AT LEAST $100 PER DOZEN FOR CARBON. BUT, I CAN SEND A FEW OF THEM INTO THE DIRT WITHOUT WORRYING ABOUT DAMAGE, I JUST CANT SEEM TO FIND THEM. I JUST THOUGHT OF ANOTHER SITE YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHECK OUT, IT IS GEORGE DIXONS, I THINK IT IS GEORGEDIXON.COM, BUT YOU CAN RUN A SEARCH FOR IT. HE GIVES SOME POINTERS ON YARDAGE JUDGING.
04-01-2003, 05:59 AM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Goshen OH USA
Posts: 19
RE: Resources for improving Bow Shooting?
Ask A Pro by Tony Tazza
How Do You Practice Yardage Judging?
When I asked Senior Pro, 2002 IBO National Champion, Derry Null to help me answer this question he was very eager with a reply.
Derry Null: Judging yardage, in my opinion is the most demanding aspect of 3-D archery. There are no shortcuts to success, just dedication and hard work. I' ve found that judging the target itself it what works the best for me. I don' t judge using the ground at all because I feel like it can fool you much more often than the target can. I don' t judge using trees, clumps of grass, logs or anything else on the range simply because I have no idea how large these objects are. Not knowing the size of these objects, I can' t make a true judgment of their distance.
Not owning the 3-D targets to practice on really doesn' t put you at a huge disadvantage, because we all have local clubs that have shoots every week. Instead of shooting for score at your local archery club, take advantage of a golden opportunity to have a really good practice session. Take your range finder (a laser range finder is a must!) with you to the shoot and judge every target as often as possible from different spots. Once at the shooting stake, judge the target then zap the target with the range finder. Now that you know the exact yardage, make a perfect shot. If you misjudge a target, make sure you find out why and how you made the mistake. I will also go back and walk around the course armed only with my range finder and notebook. I will make notes on the targets and situations that fooled me and why.
At a national shoot, foolish archers shoot a five on a target and then allow their temper and emotions to cause them to continue to make other mistakes because of it. I highly recommend that if you shoot a five, you should immediately put the score behind you and spend every second you can rejudging the target to arrive at the proper yardage and figure out why it fooled you.
When you have arrived at your yardage, judge for the target you are shooting. That is the yardage! Do not second guess yourself from that point on. Just make your very best shot at the spot you want to hit.
High or low....let her go.
My practice and judging methods are similar to Derry' s in some aspects, but also differ in others. One thing I have found out by asking other top-ranked archers is what works for one may not always work for the other. I would recommend trying new methods and sorting through them and finding what works best for you.
When practicing judging yardage, I know that the best way for me is by using 3-D targets. I own eight Rinehart targets and the same number of McKenzie targets. These are the targets I practice on. I will use the Rineharts when my next shoot is an ASA tournament and the McKenzies when an IBO tournament is next on the shoot list. I will set the targets in an area that is as close to the same terrain as I am heading for at the next shoot. Once set, I will shoot and judge the targets at known distances just trying to memorize what the target looks like at that distance. Once I have spent ample time at known distances, I will wander around to as many spots as I can to see the targets and judge them on my own. Every estimate gets recorded in a notebook, then compared to the actual yardage as ranged with my laser range finder. If I miss an estimate by more than one yard, I will not leave that spot until I know what caused the mistake.
Like Derry, when I go to a local shoot I will take my range finder and use the time as a practice session. I will, however, judge the target, make my shot, and then range it with my range finder. I have chosen this order to help me convince myself that I know the exact yardage and to make the shot. If the shot hits the mark I was aiming at, I won' t even pull the range finder out. I made the shot and hit the spot so my yardage must have been right. If I hit high or low, I will not go to the next target until I know the reason.
Unlike Derry, I will at times take walks through the woods and practice judging trees, stumps, and other terrain elements. I do this because I will often come up to a target that I don' t practice on or that I am unfamiliar with and I will need to rely on the ground to help me come up with a yardage estimate. Nowadays, when you go to a national shoot you never know what new targets will show up and catch you by surprise.
There are also many times when I will use multiple techniques on the same target just to verify that I have made the best estimate possible. Once you determine the yardage and set your sight, you must convince yourself that it is exactly correct. If you have any doubt in your mind, you won' t be able to execute a perfect shot.
Practicing yardage judging is much less fun than shooting your bow, but it will pay off. I always tell people that once their bow is tuned and sighted in and they are shooting it well, they need to get out and practice their yardage judging. Once you know you can hit a five inch circle at any yardage out to 50 yards, then you need to figure out how far that five inch circle is and hit it.
Have fun and take care.
Tony Tazza
Tony Tazza shoots for HoytUSA, Rocket Broadheads, Brownell & Company, Custom Bow Equipment, Easton Tru-Flite, Swarovski Optics, CR Archery Products, Lancaster Archery, Winners Choice Strings, Shrewd Precision Engineering and Buckwing Products.
Please e-mail questions to [email protected]
How Do You Practice Yardage Judging?
When I asked Senior Pro, 2002 IBO National Champion, Derry Null to help me answer this question he was very eager with a reply.
Derry Null: Judging yardage, in my opinion is the most demanding aspect of 3-D archery. There are no shortcuts to success, just dedication and hard work. I' ve found that judging the target itself it what works the best for me. I don' t judge using the ground at all because I feel like it can fool you much more often than the target can. I don' t judge using trees, clumps of grass, logs or anything else on the range simply because I have no idea how large these objects are. Not knowing the size of these objects, I can' t make a true judgment of their distance.
Not owning the 3-D targets to practice on really doesn' t put you at a huge disadvantage, because we all have local clubs that have shoots every week. Instead of shooting for score at your local archery club, take advantage of a golden opportunity to have a really good practice session. Take your range finder (a laser range finder is a must!) with you to the shoot and judge every target as often as possible from different spots. Once at the shooting stake, judge the target then zap the target with the range finder. Now that you know the exact yardage, make a perfect shot. If you misjudge a target, make sure you find out why and how you made the mistake. I will also go back and walk around the course armed only with my range finder and notebook. I will make notes on the targets and situations that fooled me and why.
At a national shoot, foolish archers shoot a five on a target and then allow their temper and emotions to cause them to continue to make other mistakes because of it. I highly recommend that if you shoot a five, you should immediately put the score behind you and spend every second you can rejudging the target to arrive at the proper yardage and figure out why it fooled you.
When you have arrived at your yardage, judge for the target you are shooting. That is the yardage! Do not second guess yourself from that point on. Just make your very best shot at the spot you want to hit.
High or low....let her go.
My practice and judging methods are similar to Derry' s in some aspects, but also differ in others. One thing I have found out by asking other top-ranked archers is what works for one may not always work for the other. I would recommend trying new methods and sorting through them and finding what works best for you.
When practicing judging yardage, I know that the best way for me is by using 3-D targets. I own eight Rinehart targets and the same number of McKenzie targets. These are the targets I practice on. I will use the Rineharts when my next shoot is an ASA tournament and the McKenzies when an IBO tournament is next on the shoot list. I will set the targets in an area that is as close to the same terrain as I am heading for at the next shoot. Once set, I will shoot and judge the targets at known distances just trying to memorize what the target looks like at that distance. Once I have spent ample time at known distances, I will wander around to as many spots as I can to see the targets and judge them on my own. Every estimate gets recorded in a notebook, then compared to the actual yardage as ranged with my laser range finder. If I miss an estimate by more than one yard, I will not leave that spot until I know what caused the mistake.
Like Derry, when I go to a local shoot I will take my range finder and use the time as a practice session. I will, however, judge the target, make my shot, and then range it with my range finder. I have chosen this order to help me convince myself that I know the exact yardage and to make the shot. If the shot hits the mark I was aiming at, I won' t even pull the range finder out. I made the shot and hit the spot so my yardage must have been right. If I hit high or low, I will not go to the next target until I know the reason.
Unlike Derry, I will at times take walks through the woods and practice judging trees, stumps, and other terrain elements. I do this because I will often come up to a target that I don' t practice on or that I am unfamiliar with and I will need to rely on the ground to help me come up with a yardage estimate. Nowadays, when you go to a national shoot you never know what new targets will show up and catch you by surprise.
There are also many times when I will use multiple techniques on the same target just to verify that I have made the best estimate possible. Once you determine the yardage and set your sight, you must convince yourself that it is exactly correct. If you have any doubt in your mind, you won' t be able to execute a perfect shot.
Practicing yardage judging is much less fun than shooting your bow, but it will pay off. I always tell people that once their bow is tuned and sighted in and they are shooting it well, they need to get out and practice their yardage judging. Once you know you can hit a five inch circle at any yardage out to 50 yards, then you need to figure out how far that five inch circle is and hit it.
Have fun and take care.
Tony Tazza
Tony Tazza shoots for HoytUSA, Rocket Broadheads, Brownell & Company, Custom Bow Equipment, Easton Tru-Flite, Swarovski Optics, CR Archery Products, Lancaster Archery, Winners Choice Strings, Shrewd Precision Engineering and Buckwing Products.
Please e-mail questions to [email protected]
04-01-2003, 06:03 AM
#7
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Goshen OH USA
Posts: 19
RE: Resources for improving Bow Shooting?
04-01-2003, 09:06 AM
#8
Spike
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: College Station Texas USA
Posts: 84
RE: Resources for improving Bow Shooting?
PSE also puts out some good videos:
Holding Steady
Understanding Arrow Flight
They are only $10 each and although dated, still contain valuable information, like avoiding target panic. The videos were put out before pure back tension releases were available.
Holding Steady
Understanding Arrow Flight
They are only $10 each and although dated, still contain valuable information, like avoiding target panic. The videos were put out before pure back tension releases were available.
04-15-2003, 10:22 PM
#10
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Grindstone Branch KY USA
Posts: 318
RE: Resources for improving Bow Shooting?
newtoarchery, great responses from the forum. i might add that if you are not currently actively shooting at a local range, either indoor spots or outdoor spots/3d you should start. there is no substitute for experience. get out there and shoot. the reply above said to get bernies book, i agree....but, if you are not having form problems or any forms of target panic, you might after reading bernies book
there is a lot of good info in his book, but pairing up at a local shoot with a more experienced shooter will also eleminate some of the learning curve. i know shooting locally sometimes limits your knowledge to the best local shooter, but some of those folks are very good shooters and do travel around to some of the national level shoots.
get out there and work hard, and as nimrod bow stated, work just as hard with your yardage estimation as you do your shooting form. if you dont know how far it is, you really are at a disadvantage.
i too use a rangefinder, but i use a little different approach. i judge the yardage to the target, set my sight and shoot. after the shot i range the target and write both the guess and actual yardage down. at the end of the shoot i can establish a baseline for me by comparing the two. i found i underjudged 65% of the targets by 2 yards beyond 32 yards. i was able to adjust my estimating skills by making sure i could find a good solid 20 or 30 yard mark to work with. i do use the terrain and anything else to find my way out to the target, and then find my yardage back from the target.
there is a lot of good info in his book, but pairing up at a local shoot with a more experienced shooter will also eleminate some of the learning curve. i know shooting locally sometimes limits your knowledge to the best local shooter, but some of those folks are very good shooters and do travel around to some of the national level shoots.get out there and work hard, and as nimrod bow stated, work just as hard with your yardage estimation as you do your shooting form. if you dont know how far it is, you really are at a disadvantage.
i too use a rangefinder, but i use a little different approach. i judge the yardage to the target, set my sight and shoot. after the shot i range the target and write both the guess and actual yardage down. at the end of the shoot i can establish a baseline for me by comparing the two. i found i underjudged 65% of the targets by 2 yards beyond 32 yards. i was able to adjust my estimating skills by making sure i could find a good solid 20 or 30 yard mark to work with. i do use the terrain and anything else to find my way out to the target, and then find my yardage back from the target.