THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO.I' M NOT THAT GOOD YET BUT I TOOK SOME OF YA' LLS ADVICE AND BOUGHT A RANGE FINDER AND WENT TO THE WOODS. I HAVE BEEN SHOOTING ALL THE LOCAL TOURNAMENTS AND WAS SHOOTING IN THE 160S AND AFTER PRACTICING ALL WEEK I SHOOT 187 THIS PAST WEEKEND.THANKS AGAIN! I ALWAYS GET GREAT INFO ON THIS FORUM.

Can you say more about what that pro ment by judgin back from the target? What is the process? For instance one of the things I do, and it is classic, is find my 20. Which means locate twenty yards, almost by feel, and work from there. That is a basic technique. I couldn' t do that working back form the target, since it' s 20 would look different from every distance. Can you walk me through how this works?

You have to do a lot of work with the targets you are actualy shooting. So you need to shoot a local club, or get your own targets. I can' t do either and suck beyond 35 yards.

Has anyone tried the Yardage pro software? It is supposed to help you train for 3D on a computer simulation.

Another thing is head yardage. Keep track of what you thought and where you hit. This was in the Burley Hall tape of yore. He found he was off X over 40 yards, so he set his sight to compensate for that, and put together a big string of wins. If 42 yards looks like 40 to him every time, why fight it? recalibrate the sight. On the other hand I wonder if this technique maters as much now that we have lasers, since we can train from the begining to exact yardages.

You should also watch out for your initial gut feel. There are targets you walk up to and just say " that' s 36" . Now what do you do? you either will find you should go with this really strong read, or not. But even if you feel your gut isn' t accurate, how do you work the target without being influenced by the feeling? You need to be aware of this phenomenon, so you can use it effectively.

Next subject is cheating. You can set up parts of your bow so that they operate like rangefinders, the same goes with cameras, and binocs. Many of these techniques are illegal, but some of them are not. In FITA, with which we are now aligned, this kind of thing is formalized and but not frowned on. In IBO using your focus as a rangefinder is (?) illegal, but noticing something through a fixed focus that looks different than by naked eye is fine. There are all kinds of things you might notice about a target relative to elements of your sight. I think using these is generaly OK, as long as you don' t let-down, make a change, and redraw. As I said, i can' t use this kind of thing because I don' t begin to have enough time or targets to practice on. But anyone who has the time on targets, even if they are a purist is just going to get all kinds of gut feels about what looks right. That tingling gut instinct even the amateur gets looking at targets, I can only imagine hits pros a lot, relative to all the memories they have about the look of a shot situations they have been in before. This stuff used to be discussed a lot. Is " cheating" still an issue?

It takes practice judging yardages back from a target but it isn' t that much different than judging to a target.
The way you are judging, you find twenty and then probably find twenty five and thirty and so on....
Judging back from the target is similar to the last bit of judging towards the target. I start at the target and determine 5,10,15,20,...... back to where I am.
I almost always check my yardage guessimate by judging both ways. And sometimes guess the halfway distance.

But the most sure fire method is lots, lots, lots, lots of practice with a range finder and lots different terrain.

I guess the best way is whatever works best for you and you are comfortable with doing.

Also I know some others that bring a 20 yard rope and drag it around with them before a shoot to help locate twenty yards among the new terrain for that shoot.

Mark
I was wondering why you was draggin that great lump of rope around on Saturday

Aussie-guy, seems like it was you that was always following my lead saturday so you must have been that " lump" (or was it chump) that I was dragging around.

Mark.
Now what was your score again

Btw Springtown called me and gave me directions to the range so what time do you want to hook up Sunday?

I use a rangefinder quite a bit on targets and ranges.
BUt, I have never used one in practice. My wife does and I cannot argue the results I suppose.
But, my concept is this; if every time I use a rangefinder and it tells me that I am wrong what is that re-enforcing? That I cannot judge distance.
I would suggest using steps or judge the distance and make a shot.(on targets) Then figure out if you are hot or short and why.
I am just not smart enough to be told every time I figure a distance that I am wrong and go into a shoot and automatically figure that I am right, now.
The logic here is that if my rangefinder has told me that I am wrong 10,000 time how can I be right this time?
This to me is just an extension of the same positive re-enforcement to improve my shooting. I have to believe it before it is true.
ken12

Planning to go to Collin County tomorrow with Lewis to shoot. The are having a survival shoot. Its where you only get to take one arrow with you and if you lose it or bend/break it you done. Supposedly it is a hunting type situation with twigs and brush over some of the kill zones,etc.

You want to go?

Mark.
Dont know yet if I can go to Collin what time are you going and where are you meeting?
If I can go I will call you later tonight.

When I take both a range finder and a bow out with me I use a combo of practice techniques. Some days I just go out and judge with a range finder and do not shoot. Some days I shoot almost a known distance type shoot (I judge, then I range it to see how close I was and then I shoot). Some days I judge, then shoot unkown distance and then range it to see how I did. Practice with variety. Don' t always do the same thing.

I have asked anyone that will talk to me how they judge. Here are some other methods people use once they get on the range.

- start with 5 yards, double it to 10, double it to 20, double it to 40. now is it more or less than 40.

-start with 10 yards, flip a 10 yard pole to find 20, 30, 40, 50.

-find 20 and then go to 30, 40 etc

-find 20 from the stake and 20 from the target then determine how far apart they are to determine how far the target is. If they overlap, obviously it is less than 40.

-find half way and double it

These are just the ones that popped into my head immediately. As you can see there are a bunch of different ways to judge on the range and with your range finder.

Here is what I do when I walk up to the target right now (this may very well change next week).

I look at the target just to get an idea if it is a gimmee or LFW (long friggin way).
Then I find 20 and work out in 10 yard increments.
Then if it is 35ish or more I come from the target back to me in 10 yard increments.

I have found with my ranging and note taking that I do very well out to 35 just by going to the target. Once I get past there I make some whopping mistakes occasionally (5&6 yarders). Going and coming helps me catch some of those mistakes.

Hope this helps