I know someone else kind of asked this same question?But,Why hasn't someone from the I.B.O. Answered?Did the club hosting the event drop the ball,or was it the I.B.O. official's that DID NOT inforce the rule's as far as "Busting Groups"?And is the same thing going to happen at Erie,and Nellsonville?Thanks for any answer's.

This ??? is ask every year. Sometimes you look at the top 10 scores and wonder is any of these guys are from the same town and did they shoot together? We hear all kinds of rumors. Just because Kenneth Lantz lives within 4 miles of Shawn Caldwell and they finished in the top 6 at Bedford in the MBO class. When I won Bedford last year with a score of 421 several people told me they heard somebody tell them I shoot with some friends. I shot 10 targets with 3 guys I never seen before and than I shot 20 with 3 different guys. The last 10 targets i shot with 3 different shooters and several other people walking with our group, maybe they thought I was cheating so they walked along to spy....
If anybody has proof of groups not being busted please speak up at the shoot and please dont wait until it over.

You know, Bartman is right on this. If you (or anyone else) knows that a group is all friends, it would help alot to speak up. The people running the check stations should be looking for this, but they are busy and some things may get missed. Often we (shooters) make this problem worse by trying to help. How many times do you get a group together and submit the cards as a group? The check in personell may think that you have abided by the rules in forming this "group" and send you on your way. I frequently will help out at the ranges, and will usually inform these prearranged "groups" that the assignments are determined at the tent. That usually will upset those who arranged to shoot together for timeing and rides ect... but then I have big shoulders.

This issue is not simply ignored as some may suggest, but it is possible to have some breaks in the system. I'm sure the range personell will be reminded of this at future shoots. With that kept in mind, give the volunteers a break. If they assign you to shoot in a group other than the one you showed up with, or with mixed classes accept it and move on. I've heard far too many people voicing objection when they are matched with other classes shooting different yardages, or with a cub or youth shooter. If possible you should first be matched with shooters from the same class, 2nd with shooters from the same stake, but finally if needed to accomidate all shooters you may be grouped with anyone who shoots on your range. This is all part of the game as we make sure to bust all groups. And then we still might miss someone.

I think a little to much value is put on shooting with friends anyway. If you shoot with friends all the time you get to comfortable shooting with them, then you get grouped at the world with complete strangers, your not used to it and it effects your shooting. I've found out when grouped with others than my friends I travel with I actually shoot better.
Besides the range offical can only go by what we tell them when we give them our cards. If we tell them we don't know the other guys we walked up to the tent with, they would believe we were telling them the truth, and send us out. We can't blame them, we need to look at ourselves. Also there trying to get us out on the courses as quick as they can, I know I don't like standing around waiting for other shooters to show up so I can be put with a group.
Also after shooting these IBO shoots year after year you make a lot of friends by getting grouped with them. Does that mean we can't shoot with them either, or just the ones we travel with.
I think we expect to much out of the shoot officals and not enough out of ourselves.

quit beating the dead horse,if it isn't fixed now it ain't gonna be

i dont think theres any horses being beat if the upper ecelon dont even acknowledge the post....dont need to explain anything just post "thanks its being looked into" or what ever.........that would satisfy more people than they think......

Ok...... Let me say this another way. If you will provide for me specific dates, names, and times for the individuals involved as well as which ranges were involved, I will be happy to forward it to Gene Bihler - IBO President and Shoot Director for further review. Also include a copy of the protest you filed at the shoot. I assume anyone who witnessed these occurances filed a protest in the required time format for proper processing. If such a protest was filed and no action taken, we will find out why. If no evidence of this nature can be provided, then we have nothing to look into except rumor and inuendo (sp). The statements which have been made indicateing that "no groups were busted at Bedford", is categorically false. I personally observed groups being broken at more than one check tent. So..... if you can provide the required information the review can go forward. If not.......

For your convenience, from the rule book:

13. All protests are to be filed with the protest committee. No protest will be heard until the protest committee receives a $25.00 fee with the protest form. All protests must be filed within one hour after the ranges close for that day. All decisions of the protest committee are final, unless a written appeal of that protest decision is received by the I.B.O. business office within five working days of the protest committee's decision. The I.B.O. board of Directors will hear any appeals of a protest committee's decision at the next scheduled meeting.

All decisions by the board of directors will be final, with the exception of:

At the national and world level events, the protest committee will consist of a three- director panel. All decisions of any protest by this committee are final and cannot be appealed to the IBO board for arbitration.


You may contact me at 440-933-5712
or e-mail [email protected]
Or send the info to the office at: [email protected]
or call the office at 440-967-2137

Chris Turner
IBO Director

basically your saying if someone does not file a protest then theres no reason to look into it ....there is a post dated 5/15 on this subject with at least one person that was in a group that was not busted....and not you or anyone else of authority acknowledged the post, is that because no protest was filed.....well thats good.....everyone can do as they please just dont get a protest filed against you..........just as i figured......... thats all i need to know.....thanks chris.......basically all im looking for, and im sure im not the only one, is a simple acknowledgement, not a big essay on why where all stupid and you guys are not, because that how you come across....its almost like where bothering you guys to much....

Dave,

At no time did I suggest, nor do I think that you or any of our other members are stupid. If I gave that impression, I appologise for that.

The first thread you refer to was read, as almost every one is by myself, Ken, I'm reasonably certain of Gene, and most likely at least half of the BOD. The information was noted, but since Jeremy's stated purpose was to simply bring the subject to light, and we had no official information to work with, at least on my part I felt it served its purpose without further comment.

When the subject re-emerged I felt it deservered some comment as to what should happen, why it may not have happened, and what could be done by all of us to make the system better. That responce arrarently did not sound "official" enough. So.......my last post.

Unless and untill we all become a part of the solution, there will continue to be problems. If someone at the time said something, something could have been done. If the folks at the check in were unfamiliar with those rules and something was mentioned during that shoot, we could have further instructed the specific people involved. If I am aware of a group or team going out together I have no problem breaking it up. If someone had protested a team going out together and one man changeing a shirt to gain an unfair advantage, I would have no problem disqualifying them for sportsmanship misconduct. But none of this was done. So my question is... after the shoot has concluded and we have all gone home, 1500 people have shot on 15 different ranges acrossed 3 days time, with however many different range personnel involved, what exactly is it you would want us to do?

The information was noted and as stated in my first post, I'm sure the range officials will be reminded of this for future shoots. As for my essay's, sorry, I have enough trouble properly communicating the information this way. I have never mastered the snippet.

bluejacket and bartman are correct. complaining may make you feel better, but it does not solve problems. if you see anything going on, it doesnt have to be busted groups, i mean anything you feel is not right, stop by and get the right answers from the ibo staff at the shoot, and if you are correct, fill out the forms and protest. first make sure you are right.

i know i travel great distances to shoot the national triple crown, and have met many fine folks in the years i have done this. only one occasion have i shot with another shooter i wasnt compfortable around. getting groups busted at the tent isnt a big deal.