Compound vs. Traditional in PA
03-10-2005, 11:11 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location:
Posts: 205
Compound vs. Traditional in PA
Though I cannot imagine why but a fellow moderator of yours chose to delete the post where you asked me to explain why I think archery season should be cut back/compounds/crossbows eliminated,etc.
As I recall you asked if I was an archer yes and have been for over 40 yrs.
You also asked if I was a traditional archers as opposed to modern...wel When i started as an archer that was ALL we had by today's definition of traditional. But I made the eventual swing to a compound as I aged.
Why would I like to see no compounds??? In truth the original compounds weren't much of a problem, BUT today's bows shooting shafts of carbon, with expandble heads, levels,sights,vibration dampners, etc. are a long way from the origins of the sport. When a 30 yd shot was a long one while today a 50 yard shot is possible as well as a few who claim with their 90%+ let-offs @ 80-100# peak weight flinging 100 yd shot at LIVE animals is WAY past what the sport originated from...I think you'll admit that.
How do we limit farther technology in this sport???? we can't so best thing to do is eliminate them entirely from the sport and go back to hence the sport evloved.
Guess you know where I stand on inlines ,. WB
As I recall you asked if I was an archer yes and have been for over 40 yrs.
You also asked if I was a traditional archers as opposed to modern...wel When i started as an archer that was ALL we had by today's definition of traditional. But I made the eventual swing to a compound as I aged.
Why would I like to see no compounds??? In truth the original compounds weren't much of a problem, BUT today's bows shooting shafts of carbon, with expandble heads, levels,sights,vibration dampners, etc. are a long way from the origins of the sport. When a 30 yd shot was a long one while today a 50 yard shot is possible as well as a few who claim with their 90%+ let-offs @ 80-100# peak weight flinging 100 yd shot at LIVE animals is WAY past what the sport originated from...I think you'll admit that.
How do we limit farther technology in this sport???? we can't so best thing to do is eliminate them entirely from the sport and go back to hence the sport evloved.
Guess you know where I stand on inlines ,. WB
03-10-2005, 11:23 AM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: Pa Bowhunter in response to your ?
Wingbar,
First, I changed the title of your thread so that it would both convey a summary of the message you presented and yet would also still fit into the subject material of this forum. Threads directed at an individual, even a moderator, are against forum rules and I would like for this situation to be discussed further.
Second, I directed my comment to "ulysses" so in responding to me I take it that you operate under both screen names? What is the reason for this?
Third.....
Coming from someone who shoots a high speed compound bow with carbon arrows and expandable heads I will admittedly acknowledge that the compound bows of today have come along way from the 4-wheel Bear Whitetail style bows of the late 70's and early 80's. I do not think that anyone will argue that point.
However, I find a problem with the fact that you are lumping all current compound bow shooters into a group of irresponsible sportsman who would take unethical, and potentially dangerous, shots at animals at great distances. My current setup is an 80% letoff model with a bubble level on the sight and I would not dream of shooting an animal past 30 yards. I consider myself an above average shot and I cannot imagine the skill level needed to take a responsible shot at distances beyond 40-45 yards especially in our neck of the woods.
I am unsure what type of experiences have led you to develop such a bias against modern compound bow shooters but I would respectfully suggest that you reevaluate it to some extent as it has been my experience that there are more bowhunters like myself than there are individuals such as you described.
Just food for thought.
First, I changed the title of your thread so that it would both convey a summary of the message you presented and yet would also still fit into the subject material of this forum. Threads directed at an individual, even a moderator, are against forum rules and I would like for this situation to be discussed further.
Second, I directed my comment to "ulysses" so in responding to me I take it that you operate under both screen names? What is the reason for this?
Third.....
BUT today's bows shooting shafts of carbon, with expandble heads, levels,sights,vibration dampners, etc. are a long way from the origins of the sport. When a 30 yd shot was a long one while today a 50 yard shot is possible as well as a few who claim with their 90%+ let-offs @ 80-100# peak weight flinging 100 yd shot at LIVE animals is WAY past what the sport originated from...I think you'll admit that.
However, I find a problem with the fact that you are lumping all current compound bow shooters into a group of irresponsible sportsman who would take unethical, and potentially dangerous, shots at animals at great distances. My current setup is an 80% letoff model with a bubble level on the sight and I would not dream of shooting an animal past 30 yards. I consider myself an above average shot and I cannot imagine the skill level needed to take a responsible shot at distances beyond 40-45 yards especially in our neck of the woods.
I am unsure what type of experiences have led you to develop such a bias against modern compound bow shooters but I would respectfully suggest that you reevaluate it to some extent as it has been my experience that there are more bowhunters like myself than there are individuals such as you described.
Just food for thought.
03-10-2005, 11:49 AM
#3
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,137
RE: Pa Bowhunter in response to your ?
100 yd shot at LIVE animals is WAY past what the sport originated from...I think you'll admit that.
I guess it would be allright for compound shooters to declare that trad should be banned because most of the people shooting them can't hit a barn at 15 yards,right?
If you were to poll one hundred compound shooters youd'e find that none or maybe one have made a 100 yard shot at live animals. Actually your wrong about something else the orginators of archey you know people like Howard Hill and Fred Bear are the ones who would lob arrows at 100 yards at live animals and write about it.
03-10-2005, 12:11 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location:
Posts: 205
RE: Compound vs. Traditional in PA
PaBowhunter, both I "Wingbar" and my uncle "Ulysses" share the same system and at times have posted messages while the other has left the site open.
Charlie P & Pa Bowhunter: just where did you read into my post that I lumped all archers using a compound into the 100 yd shot group? please reread my post as quoted by PaBowhunter . it says "...while a few who claim with their 90% + letoffs..."
It may surprize you both to know I shoot an Xtech by Hoyt complete with level, sights,Simms vibration, etc. but I also own an shoot my own made longbows and Port Oxford Cedars
And Charlie P I take exception to the fact that you feel most of us could not hit a barn from 15 yds.
Where do we stop or at least limit all this technology in archery? That is a good question. I don't think we do.
Better to ask where to draw the limit that we will allow and still refer to current archery as a primitive sport/ My vote is go back pre cables/pulleys. I realize most of today's archers were not even born or hunting in that era. Rather they came along when compounds were widely in use. Do I suggest rawhide and flint...no
I would like to keep the current style of BH though, back in the Ben Person deadhead and Bear Razor Head days not 1 in 50 archers could get them and keep them sharp.
Charlie P & Pa Bowhunter: just where did you read into my post that I lumped all archers using a compound into the 100 yd shot group? please reread my post as quoted by PaBowhunter . it says "...while a few who claim with their 90% + letoffs..."
It may surprize you both to know I shoot an Xtech by Hoyt complete with level, sights,Simms vibration, etc. but I also own an shoot my own made longbows and Port Oxford Cedars
And Charlie P I take exception to the fact that you feel most of us could not hit a barn from 15 yds.
Where do we stop or at least limit all this technology in archery? That is a good question. I don't think we do.
Better to ask where to draw the limit that we will allow and still refer to current archery as a primitive sport/ My vote is go back pre cables/pulleys. I realize most of today's archers were not even born or hunting in that era. Rather they came along when compounds were widely in use. Do I suggest rawhide and flint...no
I would like to keep the current style of BH though, back in the Ben Person deadhead and Bear Razor Head days not 1 in 50 archers could get them and keep them sharp.
03-10-2005, 12:39 PM
#5
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: Compound vs. Traditional in PA
I stand partially corrected. You did state "When a 30 yd shot was a long one while today a 50 yard shot is possible as well as a few who claim with their 90%+ let-offs @ 80-100# peak weight flinging 100 yd shot at LIVE animals....".
However, I would point out that just because a modern compound bow has the accuracy potential to shoot out to 50 yards that does not mean that the person behind the string has the ability to utilize that potential. One has to use proper judgement in such a case.
On the other hand, CharlieP does bring up a good point. I do seem to remember seeing many comments where several early traditional icons have been noted as taking shots well beyond anything I have seen mentioned so far.
However, I would point out that just because a modern compound bow has the accuracy potential to shoot out to 50 yards that does not mean that the person behind the string has the ability to utilize that potential. One has to use proper judgement in such a case.
On the other hand, CharlieP does bring up a good point. I do seem to remember seeing many comments where several early traditional icons have been noted as taking shots well beyond anything I have seen mentioned so far.
03-10-2005, 01:02 PM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,137
RE: Compound vs. Traditional in PA
And Charlie P I take exception to the fact that you feel most of us could not hit a barn from 15 yds.
How do you feel about we should bann trads because a few of you can't hit a barn at 15 yards.
03-10-2005, 01:16 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,190
RE: Compound vs. Traditional in PA
regardless of which used...proficiency should be tested before allowed to hunt. That goes for ALL weapons used to hunt. You have to pass a test to drive...same should apply to any weapon used that could kill/injure another person. This won't set well , but it would provide the best possible solution to crippled animals and hunting accidents. It would force hunters to practice with their equipment, as well as deliver a statement to the non-hunters that "slob" hunters will be culled out, thereby improving the hunters' image.
03-10-2005, 01:37 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Central PA
Posts: 2,299
RE: Compound vs. Traditional in PA
Wingbar, what do you have against compounds exactly? Maybe I am missing something here but I seriously doubt there are too many people who will shoot 100 yards with a bow, let alone 50. It can and has been done, but thats way out of the norm.
Between you and Ulysses, you guys crack me up. Looks like there is more than one village deprived of its idiot. I take you are a gun hunter as well. How traditional is a high powered rifle with a scope? If we are going to say anything other than traditional weapens are allowed, then put those away too and pull out your flintlock.
Between you and Ulysses, you guys crack me up. Looks like there is more than one village deprived of its idiot. I take you are a gun hunter as well. How traditional is a high powered rifle with a scope? If we are going to say anything other than traditional weapens are allowed, then put those away too and pull out your flintlock.