VA maybe the 5 year old buck made it that long because everyone was shooting the smaller bucks first! If they waited he may have been doomed! If you shoot a 1.5 buck that hasn't mated yet how does that effect the herd any different then taking the big boy who has? Either way there is one less buck making babies! The real control of the herd size is in the doe numbers if you ask me. They are the real baby makers. 1 buck can mate with quite a few does each year. Take a buck and another will knock up the does that the dead buck would have. Take the doe and thats the end of that baby maker PERIOD! Limit the number of doe's or the number of deer period if you want more deer next year. Age doesn't make a difference in the long run. Taking a young doe that didn't mate has little effect on this or next year but she would have made quite a few babies down the road. Taking any buck has the same effect no matter what.(besides good and bad genes). Less bucks means more mating for the rest of them. Doe's will go back into season 3 or 4 times if not yet knocked up and even a tired worn out buck has a hard time passing on a doe in season! IMO doe's hold the key to herd size! We as hunters just have to hope the people in charge are making up these bag limits to better the herd and not just to better thier income! VA your property sounds great! If you ever need a hand looking for some of those big boy's I'm sure I could lend you a hand LOL! I promise to pass on the little guy's! ...

wingbar,
so are you for or against AR? you seem to argue both sides.

Yes they are happy with the path they chose, exactly as you expressed.

The root of this statement is why are there spike hunters to begin with? PA's mentality is such to shoot every buck regardless of what it carries on its head. And with this mentality and the # of people, the odds of bucks getting old are VERY small. BUT if more hunters stopped shooting a buck just for the sake of it being a buck, then everyone would feel they had a chance at a decent deer, and they wouldn't need to resort to shooting the 1st thing that walked by. So many other places, most hunters don't shoot small bucks, because they know that they can get a chance at bigger bucks, and they can shoot does for meat. In those places people like that aren't even considered trophy hunters, just common. AR's aren't needed. What is so wrong with trying to create that mindset here? Everyone tries to paint out trophy hunters as rack obsessed and all, but really its the guys who want to shoot everything who are rack obsessed. Otherwise why would they want to shoot a buck just because its a buck? A guy holding out for a nice one, knows full well that he stands a very good chance of not shooting anything. It hurts him less to go home empty handed than it does for some one who "has to get thier buck".

Due To AR we stopped shooting small buck in PA in 2002. The result was only 9,400 additional hunters harvested a 2.5+ buck in 2003 ,while 61 K hunters failed to harvest a buck. So a whole lot of buck hunters were unsuccessful ,just so 1% of the buck hunters could harvest a buck that was 1 year older. Also, remember not all of the 9,400 additional 2.5 buck were 8 + pts. The number of 2.5+ 8 pts harvested only increased by a little over 4K. So while many were bragging about all the big bucks they were seeing, that was not reflected in the statewide harvest data.

So in your words, it's all about the kill....there are seasons I don't harvest a buck, usually by choice to allow 1.5 year olds to grow.....I don't suffer physically or mentally because I didn't get my precious buck.....it didn't make me a bad hunter.....why is it so important for people to have to kill a buck every year to enjoy the hunts etc....?

I live here. Yes I'll still hunt.

Rob you make a good point unfortunately it is for the dropping of AR..if making the kill isn't important than any hunter could let any deer walk with the hopes of waiting for that Monster Whitetail to come by...could they not?
Me I go hunting for recreation and am happy to kill any buck I choose to kill and pass on any I choose to pass on. be they spikes or Monster Whitetails

No my point is not for the dropping of AR...yes any hunter could make that choice, the unfortunate reality of it is the majority of PA hunters would opt back to shooting spikes and 4 pts. AR is needed to protect immature deer.....

I've hunted for 13 years in PA. For the first 10 seasons, I took nothing larger than a scrub 8-point buck. Since AR's have kicked in, I've taken 1 really nice buck for each of the past 3 years. (all AR years). Needless to say, I will be buying my license. I would buy more if I was allowed.

With any luck, everyone will believe Wingbar (Ulysses) and his contentions that Pennsylvania deer are now extinct and you have a better shot at taking a Brontosaurus and not buy a license. That will leave more big bucks for me to hunt.

As such, I believe you all should Boycott PA Licenses!! Stand up for what you believe in!!

quickie; I saw 1 this morning crossing the meadow,I think he was lost looking for his buddies though

No, those weren't deadeers words.... those are your words. Biiiiig difference.

Dead deer was merely pointing out that by having ALL hunters pass on a buck by AR restrictions, it only led to 9400 additional 2.5's. He never said anything about anyone having to kill anything.

....and he very accurately rebutted yur post "BUT if more hunters stopped shooting a buck just for the sake of it being a buck, then everyone would feel they had a chance at a decent deer" by pointing out that NO if ALL hunters do just pass on small bucks then NOT EVERYONE would feel they have a " chance at a decent deer". Only 9400 additional would actually take a 2.5 out of 800,000 deer hunters.

...and that comes at the cost of sending 61,000 home with none.

everyone can decide for themselves wheter that is worth it.

We are like Fox News. We report - you decide!