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Put Pa buck tag on a lottery

I'm in favor of putting all Pa buck tags on a lottery draw by WMU. Anyone else agree or for that matter disagree?

RE: Put Pa buck tag on a lottery

Why? what scientific study or research has shown that we do not have enough bucks in pa to breed and have a healthy herd? None done here in pa is the answer...

So why conserve bucks?

Dr. Rosenberrys very good article published before the AR/HR fiasco clearly showed we have plenty of buck to get 90% of adult does bred and even 25% of the fawns. A good breeding rate before AR ever was even begun as a carrot to shoot more does.

No need for tags for bucks, because no one has shown that there is a need scientifically to keep bucks around longer.

Unless you really aren't using science, but instead trying to appease rack hunters. Yuck!

Makes me queasy thinking we want to manipulate nature and the resource for our own desire to brag over a rack to the guys at work. [:'(]

really with the herd at its new reduced size, thanks to cutnrun Alt, there is less need now for more bucks than ever before.

Repeal AR since its not needed, skip buck tags they too are not needed unless your a wannabe. Harvest away and we keep the herd small the way the nonhunters and timber companies want it.

RE: Put Pa buck tag on a lottery

Chickory, You crack me up with your "wanna be" rants. LOL. It makes no sense to me.

RE: Put Pa buck tag on a lottery

Quote:

) If a herd has an out of whack buck to doe ratio, then inferior bucks are allowed to breed and even inetrbreed. This causes late born fawns, can lead to low body weights and antler develpoment and piepald and albinoism to increase. All of these things reduce the quality of the herd.

Our B/D ratio was 1;2.1 before Alt was appointed and our late breeding was doe to fawns being bred in their first year.

Quote:

2) If more bucks are allowed to live longer this increases competition to breed. This leads to BETTER hunting and more daytime rutting activity

That hasn't happened in 5 C where I hunt. There were fewer buck rubs and scrapes than I have seen in the last 20 years and the rut was less intense than normal because there were so fe adult doe to be bred.

Quote:

3) The practice of quality deer management is NOT just about producing trophy antlers. Yes a by product of it is an older age structure of bucks. But the real definition of quality deer management in "keeping a herd in the numbers that the carrying capacity of the land will allow maximum health to the herd"

The goal for 5 C which includes Notrhampton ,lehigh, Berks and buck Co. is 6 DPSM. At that level deer hunting will cease to exist in 5C because all the deer will be in safety zones and posted ground.

RE: Put Pa buck tag on a lottery

anybody that knows me knows I distain "cutnrun" and his HR program where they are not needed. Where they are needed fine but I still distain Ole CutnRun anyway.
AR is here to stay, face it the PGC is not going to repel them anytime soon. surely not in the next 5 yrs or so.
I suggest we put the buck tags on lottery just like Ks,Iowa,Mt,Wyo,Colo.,etc. I really can't think of any state that has a good quality healthy deer herd that doesn't have them on lottery. Keep the point restrictions as well. Call this horn hunting,wannabeing, anything you want but the end result will be a larger % of mature antlered deer in the existing deer herd ( note deaddeer I said EXISTING deer herd,not the herd today as compare to 10 yrs ago)
The benifits should be to mention a few: the obvious nicer older rack bucks, hunters wanting to hunt for meat can apply for doe tags in WMUs with an overpopulation of deer thus putting more hunters in the field where there is a deer # problem cutting back on hunters in WMUs without a deer overpopulation, etc.

Deaddeer: while I agree with your stats on HR your stats on AR reaaly don't impress me. Stats can be adjusted to make any point anyone wants. It is simple enough to do, solely because for every stat that says one thing another can be produced to say the opposite, when both are really viewpoints in the end.

RE: Put Pa buck tag on a lottery

There would be too many PA hunters headed out of state.If they don't get a buck tag in PA they would just head elsewhere.What they need to do is cut back on the anterless tags and get the populations back in check on public lands.Alot of areas have exceeded the goals of herd reduction yet they want more.

RE: Put Pa buck tag on a lottery

Quote:

the end result will be a larger % of mature antlered deer in the existing deer herd

But deaddeer says if we have too many deer then they will be killed by cars anyways.LOL:D

I agree Ulysses, just give it time before you burn down the PGC.

RE: Put Pa buck tag on a lottery

Quote:

Deaddeer, I do not know where you got that fact from, but according to a biologist I know from the QDMA. He lives in Pa and said before Alt put his plan in the woks. The buck to doe ratio throughout most of Pa was 10:1 and higher.

The buck harvest in 1999 was 197K. If we had 10 times as many doe there would have been 1,970,000 doe and 250,000 buck for a total herd of 2.22 M. But , in 1999 we had less than 1 M deer so how do you explain a 1:10 B/D ratio?
It is impossible to have an B/D ratio of greater then 1:3, if 90% of the adult doe are being bred and there is an anterless season every year.