here in Pa a few years ago I hit a buck with my bow and thought best to finish the tracking job the next morning. While doing barn chores I heard a pack of 'yotes open up in area later that night, it sounded just like a pack of beagles that were cold tracking a ra bbit their yaps changed when they jumped the buck as I stood in the barn doorway listening. At first light I sneaked into the area and found where they came upon my buck. ALL that was left was the head sans the nose an 1 eye and the bones, with some of the hide scattered about. and that was only 5 hrs later!

that winter my son killed 7 'yotes with his 22-250 out on the snow using a varmit callaround the area

I agree with this. I have seen a mature doe chase a adult coyote and 3 pups off of her fawn. Man she was pissed. Chased them right into the river.

But the situation changes with heavy snows or wouded/starving deer. Advantage is with the coyote then. I think they really add to the kill during heavy winters.

Just finding bones near a yote den, or fur in the scat dosn't mean the coyotes killed a healthy adult deer. The deer could have died from other causes and the yotes simply found or finished off the deer.

Like I said, I can't confirm 100% that its true unless I find out who the DEC officer was and attempt to contact him. Or my father does know a different DEC officer, I'll have him ask next time he runs into him. Maybe we can confirm it or find out more info.

I can tell you a different story thats pretty amazing and 100% true:

A few winters ago just after daybreak, from my living room window I saw a bear break out of the woods into a field at full sprint with 4 coyotes not far behind. The bear had something in its mouth that it was carrying around. Two of the coyotes broke out in front of the bear and were apparently attempting to "surround" it. They wouldn't get to close, and if they did the bear would lunge at them and they'd turn and run back a few feet. This continued for a minute or two until the bear apparently got fed up, dropped what was in its mouth and the coyotes grabbed it and all 4 took off into the woods and the bear went the other way. My jaw was on the ground for about 20 minutes.

Tim

It's funny...I was just going to make a post pertaining to this topic. This seems to be the popular story this season...seems like everyone has put trail cameras on coyote dens this year. I've heard several stories so far about so and so's cousin or brother capturing coyotes bringing from 20-40 fawns back to the den or of people finding 30+ fawn skulls scattered around a den site. I can't hardly believe the crap some people come up with...before you know it everyone around starts to believe the stories. For example, I think that most everyone on here has seen the trail camera photo of the mountain lion stalking the deer. That very photo has been circulating around my town for the past couple of weeks with claims that the picture was taken in New York. Everyone is just eating the pic. up as solid proof that there are cougars in NY State. You ought to see a few of the looks that I've gotten when I've pointed out the black "mule deer" tail on the deer in the photo and tell them, "not unless we have mule deer running around too." It's just unbelievable how this stories can get out of hand so quickly.

Anyways, I know that coyotes take their fair share of deer every year when the opportunity presents itself (mostly fawns and in the winter adults ithat are in bad shape), but there is no way that they kill as many deer as most people think they do. You gotta stop and think that coyotes are not strictly venison craving carnivores and most of their diet consists of small mammals such as woodchucks, rabbits and lots of mice and carrion that they come across. Besides, I don't know how many times in the past few years that I've been out spotlighting and have seen a coyote or a couple of coyotes out in the middle of a bunch a deer. Most of the time the deer don't seem to be too overly concerned and seem to pay little attention to the coyotes and usually just keep right on feeding. I know that alot of areas (included my area) faced less than great deer hunting this past season and I guess that people need to blame it on something...but I don't believe that it has a whole lot to do with a vast overabunance or deer killing coyotes. Besides, I certainly haven't noticed what I would consider to be huge increase of the coyote pop. here in the western finger lakes region of the NY state over the last 2-3 years. The only realistic things that I can think of that can cause a serious decrease in the deer herd over a large area to such a degree would be a disease (such as EHD or blue tongue) and the harvasting of really large numbers of does by hunters.

Just my thoughts on the issue!!!

I don't know about the rest of you,but I will do some coyote hunting this year after the terrible season in WNY where I hunt.When I was younger,there were never any coyotes around the area.Last year a guy trapping near my parent's house got 18 coyotes.I might as well get a coyote or two too.

Woodchucks? Rabbits? What are those? I haven't seen any since I started hearing coyotes howling at night 5-6 years ago. Also used to see 30+ turkeys at a time, several different groups of them. Now I see the same group of 12 every couple weeks. And we haven't had any real bad winters the past few years. Heck were halfway through December and I haven't seen anything more than a dusting of snow so far.

Also, I would assume if there was a disease taking out large numbers of deer in NY we'd have heard about it correct?

Tim

The idea of coyotes affecting deer numbers to the point of humans raising an eyebrow on it is complete BS. As mentioned earlier, the diet of a coyote varies by season. At a few points, yotes may go after deer, but it has to be in the right circumstances. Some include:

Heavy snowfall creating poor foraging of non meat food, and other small game for yotes making them hungry, plus the effect of it on deer (poor food conditions making deer stressed and weak, suprisingly, deer are very manuverable in snow due to their design)

Fawn drop and early fawn growth. Obviously this takes place, but it is nature at it's finest.

And if any hardships result, then yotes make do some bambi hunting.

Coyotes much prefer smaller game that wagers less danger to them despite pack orientation. I am sure you would rather go punch a 5 ft 145 pound guy in the face than a 6' 5" 325lb offensive lineman. Same principle, coyotes do not want to get the snot kicked out of them.

Also, coyotes prefer the small game due to their ability to hunt it. Ask a farmer in farm country, you'd be suprised to find out how coyotes often follow farm machinery in the field. This is because the machinery disturbs small game and flushes them out creating predatory oppotunities. I have two pics of coyotes on my game cam this year, and it coincided with the harvesting of the corn field around the woodlot.

Until a legit experiment with established and confirmed data has been released by different organizations offering a consensus, coyotes having a sever impact is only BS based on rumors.

Tim you can bet if there was a disease Alt would take some scrapings an release it into Pa's deer herd!

Coyotes are getting to be a huge impact on everthing, rabbits, squirrls, domestic cats & dogs. They take fawns as they are being born, pretty aweful if you ask me! Do you also see the size of these cannies they have bred with the Red Wolf! Packs are bigger & stronger! There is a season , get rid of them, I have one now that has been trying to lure my Ausie from the farm, I understand the end result is the pack is waiting! That makes me a bit pissed, he is a working dog on a horse farm, of course the deer are hiding in with the horses.........Look at there scat, nothing but Deer of course it is an impact!!

Until a legit experiment with established and confirmed data has been released by different organizations offering a consensus, coyotes NOT having severe impact is only BS based on lack of facts.

But seriously though. If small, easier to hunt game is so readily available I want to know why I need to hear large numbers of coyotes yipping and yapping at night 100 yards from my front porch and then find full grown deer carcasses laying 20 yards from the road the next morning. The last coyote we shot looked to be healthier and better fed than I am.

Tim