Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

hunters from low deer density areas in Pa get smart! BUY 'N BURN THE DOE TAGS IN YOUR WMU if you aren't happy with deer sightins in your hunting territory.
Alt can have 5 million tags printed if they don't get used it won't amount to more doe kills where they aren't needed!
Burn them once you get them cause they belong to you at that point an the PGC still gets the operating $ they so dearly need!
BUY ' N BURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know of at least my family's tags in 3A that will be ASHES next AUGUST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

There's one problem with the "buy and burn" philosophy. When the doe harvest is not as high as the game commission wanted (due to the tags being burned instead of filled) they will just issue more for the following season. If you're going to burn your doe tag, you should probably fill out a phony harvest report card so the game commission thinks it's killing enough doe.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

Why would you even but one ?? that would be like sending money to the enemy in a war to buy guns. Hurt them where it hurts the pocket book. At 6 dollars a pop if half of the tags did not get sold that is 3.6 million

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

Barnesx: I don't advocate doing something illegal like filing the false report. Let each decide for themselves what to do. But it really a moot point about the PGC just issuing more next year, if enough don't buy them ever till numbers get back up it really doesn't matter.
I work with A SLOB (far as I'm concerened) he gets 4 or 5 tags each year for doe, and buys his 2 sons 3 or 4 too. He does whatever he can to get them all filled. Then either gives the meat away or just tosses it. THAT IS WHAT THE PROBLEM IS..... GREED just wanton killing!!!!!!!

BUY 'N BURN that's the rally call in my WMU 3A!!!!!!!!!

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

cardeer: cause without the revenue the PGC MAY consider selling tresspass permits to non hunters on Game lands. And once they get a paying voice you can say adios to hunting on them!
Just spend the $6.00 better yet $12.00 and get a bunch of friends to do the same. Have a picnic over Labor day to finish off the leftover venison sauasge and toss them on the Bar-B- QUE to roast marshmellows over!!!!!!

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

$26.00 Non-Resident

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

buy a few! Alt can use the extra $$ for his pension!

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

I hate guys like that , if my freezer is full , I'm done hunting. If your killing deer just for the fun of it , then somethings wrong. Too bad that guy will pass those habits down to his kids. Hopefully they will run into an " ethical " hunter and he/she will set em straight

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

no such luck, I've tried so many times with this slob I can hardly listen to him anymore as he claims he has an "itchy trigger finger" worse yet he works for a school district and is just sooooooo happy to regale kids an adults with his exploits

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

On the one hand I agree to some extent. There are specific areas within our wildlife management units that have seen an overharvest of doe. On the other hand there are also areas within the same WMU that have an overabundance of deer and the game commission issuing more doe tags does nothing to help that.

They (the game commission) needs to do something about gaining further public access to private land holdings....especially larger tracts of land.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

Pa Bowhunter the PGC's reply to that is they can't micro manage, I wonder why not? Every other state I've hunted does a fine job of it. While I agree that micro management is difficult at best it can be done. The only attempt by the PGC at it though has been a pitiful statement of "hunters need to move to areas where the deer have moved to during the harsh winter last year"..sure let them find unposted land for us to do that onthen we will!!!!

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

Gee, sounds like HUNTING to me!!!!

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

I've shot 4 deer so far this year. I have 2 tags left that I still plan on filling. I've filled all my tags with quick clean kills, 3 bow, 1 pistol. I gave 1 whole deer away, and should I fill my 2 remaing tags, I will give a lot more meat away thru the year. Am I a slob?

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

not wishing to start an arguement but in my book yes, if you killed more than you can use an just killed to do it rather than consume it yourself, yes you are. sorry but if the shoe fits .......
allow me to add: just because you may have access to all those deer in areas of the state where they are over abundant does nothing to justify to me the need of a sportsman to kill and not consume the prey.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

Why is PGC always the bad guy???

Don't shoot the messenger. In case you didn't know - I have news: WE DO NOT LIVE IN SASKATCHEWAN. We have over a Million hunters. We hunt the most pressured deer in the Union. It isn't easy. It never will be.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

So it is better for those deer to live and possibly cause car accidents and eat people's shrubs than for me to shoot them. It is better for me to stiff my friends who enjoy eating deer meat, but are not able to get venison by any other means. I should tell my dad that even though now he's old and don't get deer like he used to, that he can't have any of the meat that I get. It's not like I shoot these things and let them lay. I butcher them myself and share my bounty with those who will enjoy it. So do you chastize people who plant gardens and have too many tomatoes and zucchini that they give away?

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

I'd be more than happy to trade my tomatoes and zuchinni for venison. :DI can't believe I've become a slob for having to many.;) And when I get any venison whether it be extra or not, I just love sharing. Guess I'm going to hell.:)

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

Our current plan is closing more access to private land and farms. with deer numbers dropping, my brother in law has for the first time in hisory now closed the farm and has told the hunters not to come back for 2005 because there are not enough deer to support the family to hunt and outsiders also. A smaller herd means more competition for the remaining resource, and private landowners in my area are shutting the door. The PGC will not change that with 12dpsm (from out level today of 25), it will only get worse.


Buy and burn does not work. While you do without, the guys who drive in a park and hunt will take the excess does. You don't have fenced deer they go where they want. you protect them on your property, your freezer goes empty, but the neighbors harvest away and you suffer no one else.

You have to do a lot more than buy and burn if you are not happy today. You better start writing legislators, tell sportsmans clubs you won't support them unless they support you and your hunting. Writing commissioners is pretty much a waste. They could care less what you want. They are political appointees, if they do not play the herd reduction game they get removed and someone else is appointed in thier place.

The answer is to not buy a license at all, not just the doe tag. Lip service only goes so far, then its $$$$$ that talk.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

As far as I know, the State Game Lands are owned by the people, not by the PGC. Anyways, I'm not buying any. I usually get 6 between my kid, me and my wife. My dad won't get one and he usually gets 3.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

I think we are treading on dangerous grounds here and playing right in to the anti's hands. All you have to do is sit back and read all these posts for the last couple days and you see fighting among the ranks. What's so hard to understand about guys being upset if in their hunting area they are not seeing deer? And why do we need to criticize guys who's hunting areas are bountiful and they are taking legal deer? What gets me is most we won't take the time to write our representatives in Harrisburg. Anti's do. We'll just continue to argue among ourselves????[:@]

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

I don't live in PA but have hunted there with family friends for years. I have always seen deer and enjoyed the atmosphere and comradare that surronds the hunting seasons.

I would like to address several things I have been reading in the various posts though and it is not meant to demean or criticize anyone, just to point out my thoughts on the various subjects.

First, I have always viewed hunting as a sport and a time for relaxation. I enjoy being out in the woods with my children and friends. I love watching the wildlife, be it deer, bears, squirrels, rabbits or turkeys. I enjoy the time catching up with friends that I do not have the opportunity to see often. For me, this all contributes to the success and enjoyment of hunting.

I also enjoy matching wits with the animals I am hunting for, although they prove quite often that I am witless..laughs. I find that each time I am in the woods it turns into a learning experience and gives me a greater understanding of nature.

Taking game is an aspect of hunting. The state has set laws concerning the taking of these animals and it is my choice whether I harvest far less than my limit or harvest my entire limit of any or all animals. I am a firm believer in never letting any of the animals I harvest go to waste though, whether it is one squirrel or six deer.

In that regard, I as well have friends that enjoy venison and don't hunt. I know people that are on limited budgets and utilize the various types of "Hunters for the Hungry" programs through donations of meat from animals harvested legally. I have been on hunting trips that I could not bring the entire animal home and the meat was donated to one of these organizations. I do not see how people harvesting numerous deer legally and donating them or giving meat to friends could ever be viewed as a "slob" hunter. If that is the case, I guess I too qualify for the title.

As far as changing the rules. I would have to agree with the many excellent points brought forth concerning not being part of the problem but being part of the solution and banding together as one. The way to make changes is to be vocal towards your representatives, the PGC and those involved in the management and hiring of the game managers in the state (Alt I believe his name was?).

I hope everyone has an enjoyable and safe remainder to the hunting season and take the time to enjoy the time in the woods and the wonders of mother nature!

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

uncle buck 300: you made a rational post I respect your viewpoint an opinons. I myself hold many of them as I am sure most posters to this site do as well. Though I am certain you too know tag holders that you prefer not to be associated with when refering to hunters.
I have my opinions as well of people whom each year apply for as many tags as they can possibly get, then consider it a poor season unless they fill each of those tags. For no better reason then their warpped sense of enjoyment in the killing of deer. only to waste the venison or give it away. Surely I and any level headed human applaud anyone whom donates venison to programs such as 'Hunters feeding the hungry' there is a huge difference in a sportsman sacrificing some of the fruits of their success and the SLOBS I have posted about earlier, but I believe you know that already. These same SLOBS are the first to cry about not seeing enough deer when an area is over harvested. If Alt continues his statewide rather than localized elevated doe harvests trust me here in Pa there will be many more areas nearly devoid of deer.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

whitetail and other: what makes you think guys like me don't write the letters, heck I even dropped my membership to the Federation of Sportsman along with my $200 annual donation to them cause they support Alt. which meant I had to let my dues lapse at the local gun club as they are part of the Fed.
Also if you have access to an over abundant deer herd by all means blast away, BUT once those numbers are down to manageable levels if you continue to blast away you are part of the problem.
those guys that give their old kin a few steaks or sausage aren't the slobs I refer to it's the guys that shoot 4 deer a year and their kids each kill 2 or 3 then the wife nails 1 or 2 more and the family consumes a total of 3 deer while the rest get passed around only to wind up freezer burnt then tossed out in the trash next Sept. Those guys are SLOBS. It is usually these SLOBS that flit around looking for areas with high deer numbers then hammer away only to move on to another area in a year or two when the pickins get slim. The result is normally more posted land to keep what few deer remain for the owners kin.EVERYONE looses because of these slobs

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

ulysses,

You are absolutely right. I have run into people that are like that, wasting the game that they harvest. I am glad that they make up such a small minority of the hunting population and and I don't run into them often.

I would agree that PA has some serious issues with deer numbers and the harvest decisions that are made. There do need to be changes made and the hunters in the state need to do more to make the PGC more proactive than reactive to the issues surrounding game management in the state. The only way this is going to get done however is through sportsman banding together and working with the PGC to see these changes get enacted. Are you going to be able to please everyone, not a chance, but compromise is a way of life and I'm sure that the direction could be changed to create a balance between the sides.

I know that in my state they hold public meetings to allow input from hunters in regards to the laws, limits and upcoming legistlation? Does that occur in PA? If so, do those that are so vocal on the boards take an active part in them and work together toward change? I have no idea, but I do know that there are very few people present at most of the meetings that I have attended here.

The main part of my post was directed at hunting and the pleasure it brings me. I don't have to harvest an animal to have a successful season and it isn't all about the kill for me. I just was hoping as you did, that people would stop for a moment and look at what they enjoy about hunting other than the kill.

Thanks

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

Here is a slightly different perspective. Many PA hunters live where they hunt. WE can enjoy nature year round and many can observe deer while sitting in their back yard having a beer. Therefore, the appeal of sitting in the woods freezing our butts off may be just a tad less enjoyable for us than for someone that only gets out in the woods a few days a year. In other words our main purpose for hunting is to havest deer and although I enjoy watching the sunrise and nature in general, my only goal while hunting is for someone in the group to harvest a deer.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

I despise seeing game go to waste whether its roadkill, or unused deer that's freezer burned. I take pride in using all the deer I shoot and building relations with non-hunting co-workers and friends by giving them some meat and keeping up a good image for hunters. I haven't bought beef at the grocery store in over 5 years. I was very offended being lumped in with guys who buy tags for every family member, just to slaughter deer and much of it gets wasted. Yes I too get a good number of tags, but try as I might I don't always fill them. I hunt heavily populated areas that show no signs of slowing down, and this year I am having a little above average year. These last 2 tags I have to fill, I will be hunting a co-workers farm who just about begged me to come shoot deer as he too farms the land. Seems like an all around win-win situation to me.

Nice point DD.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

If I read that right, the only enjoyment you have in the woods is if you get to kill something or someone in your party gets to kill something. Each person derives their own pleasure from hunting and if the kill is the only enjoyment that you have, so be it. I too have that goal, to harvest an animal when I go hunting, however I also enjoy other aspects of the hunt as well.

As far as only getting in the woods a few days a year or not being able to get out. I am in the woods on a year round basis and can do the same thing, sit on my deck and watch deer and many other animals. I bought the property where I live because I enjoy doing just that. I live where I hunt just as you do. I also hunt where I don't live through out New England and other areas and always seem to enjoy it whether I harvest an animal or not.

This is just my opinion, but the main focus of this thread is the "declining" deer numbers and the hope that you all can work with the PGC as a group if that is what needs to be done to enhance the hunting for everyone. Like I said in my previous post, you aren't going to please everyone, but usually a majority can be happy with compromise and working together on the problems.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

Pa.anteless tag have to be contolled otherwise you are not going to have any deer heards.Yes some guys will bag a buck or doe,but many will end up empty handed.I don't see the need that one hunter can apply for 10 tags and filled them all,1 tag along with the big game lic: will help the deer to rebound from hunting pressure and bad winters,Hey guy it just like fishing back in the late 70's and 80 's guys whould keep flounder the size of a postage stamp,the water on the east cost are fished out ,flounder season now is a joke,summer fluke 18 inches is a keeper here on long island,that another joke ,this fishing season the coast seem the worst in years.I read the papers that the local bait shops and the charters are looking at 45 percent in loss on dollars.I would say when there was no restictions on fluke ,here you got guys taken postage stamps home . The deer are no different then fish shoot them all and you will see no deer in the woods.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

The fact is we can't work with the PGC because Alt lied to the hunters of PA and totally misrepresented his plan. The habitat is capable of supporting a lot more deer than the PGC claims because the PGC only considers forested habitat as suitable deer habitat. Acording to the PGC farmland,abandoned farm land reclaimed stip mines and fringe habitat contribute nothing to the carrying capacity of the habitat. That is why the goal for 5 C ,which has excellent habitat is 6 DPSM, but the goal for 2G which has the worst habitat is 15 DPSM.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

Personal attack against another member and totally uncalled for!

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

A bit out of line ain't we biggbuks????
I could send you a nice pack of deer steaks....I have plenty:D Would that make you feel better?

Your comments show who the brainless one is.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

Lonewolf - I've been saying for years that they should have lowered the bag limit for flounder. For the longest time it was 8 fish and they just kept raising the minimum size. That means guys keep fishing and throwing over undersized, potentially gut-hooked fish. They should have lowered it to 4 or 5 fish years ago. What do you need 8 flounder for? If the party boats limit out on two trips a day, every day, all summer, that's a lot of dead flounder. Sorry to change the subject. Anyway, I wasn't serious about the phony harvest report cards. I was just trying to point out that the game commission wants to see the does dead - not just the tags being sold. There are also a lot of guys who buy multiple doe tags and don't fill them. Sometimes they don't have time to even hunt but buy them just in case.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

My name is Bob and I am a brainless slob. And everyone else says, "HI BOB!"
You guys crack me up. A guys shoots a good amount of deer, uses everybit of it, gives it to friends and family, saves himself some money, helps thin out the herd in over-populated areas and enjoys himself in a sport that WE ALL love and he's classified a slob with the minority of hunters that waste deer and wound them all season long.
I've known Rybo for about 3 years now and there isn't a more ethical hunter on this board than him. For you to sit back and bash him and others like him for what he does in rediculous.
Buy your tags and burn them or toss them. I'll be in the woods enjoying my sport and hoping the PGC is on the right track.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

First, let me express my extreme displeasure at your attack on Rybo. Although I have often said that I dislike the type that buys a book of tags to fill wantonly year in/ year out, I include only those who then complain of falling densities and/or waste much of what they take. Some folks derive their sport from whacking large numbers for the sake of whacking large numbers. However, Rybo could never be included in this sect. He hunts high density areas apparently and makes VERY good use of what he takes. NOTHING wrong with his approach. I have not read of Rybo complaining about his opportunities.
Second, your crude insults are not constructive and do not belong on this board. Using profane language toward a fellow sportsman on this board will get you terminated by the mods.
Third, if you want to do some good, go a step further and go to the top. Don't look to Rendell to solve our problems, get rid of Rendell at the first opportunity, He is the true "bottomfeeder"!

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

I agree. Robo is definately not in the class of slob hunters that I stated in my post wasted game meat As I previously stated they are few and far between and thank god they are because they give hunters such a bad name. He is also taking an active part in the management of the deer in an area where apparently the numbers need to be reduced which is outstanding and gives hunting a good name. He is following the law and taking what is allowed under the law.

It is easy to see after reading the posts here why there is such a problem.

I state I enjoy the time I get to spend in the woods and camp with friends and family and that is part of the hunting experience.

I'm told it is only because I spend a few days in the woods and the "locals" see deer all year and don't want to freeze their butts off for nothing. I have sat on stands for hours in Maine in November where it can be much colder and got nothing...so goes it, that is all part of hunting.

I ask if there is a possibility of a compromise through attendance of the meetings I have since found out that the PGC holds. A chance to air your views and opinions and try to make things better for all.

I'm told there is not a chance and that Alt lied about everything even though there is a Game Commission that approves things. There were also 22,000 people that attended meetings that were held prior to the enactment of the restrictions and regulations. Did all of the people that are posting on the boards attend those and voice their displeasure. I hope you did!

I've read posts by some that they are killing 8-10 deer per year, which must include 7-9 does as you can only kill one buck to my knowledge in PA per year, which seems to indicate some areas have a pretty large population of deer.

I've also read that there are no deer in the state of PA and that they haven't seen a deer in days and days which seems to me indicates there aren't any deer.

I also read that the whole system is corrupt and it is and was all caused by one person. It had nothing to do with the Game Commission itself, just the plan brought forth by a single individual in charge of the deer management in PA.

n an opposing article I have read that the understory of the forest is being decimated and the large number of problems that the overpopulation of deer is causing.

Sounds like no one can agree on the deer status in PA nor can they agree on what should be done about it. Hope you all figure it out.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

Good points all, Unc.
The problem lies in the fact that deer densities and habitat conditions vary from one hill to the next. What is good for one is bad medicine for another. Deer cannot be spread out in the terrain like pepperoni on a pizza. We must have smaller WMU's. I too am like you and get my hunting pleasure from merely being in the woods. Taking a freezer load home every year means less than nothing to me. I prefer to pursue more mature bucks only and if I get none, I'm just as happy with the time spent.
Guys that hunt low density areas and kill many does, only to complain later, are not a help to the situation. Wasting the meat from a doe killed in a low density area should be a capital offense among hunters. Those types cause much dissentment among the rest of us.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

If you will reread the post you are referring to, you will note that I did not say or imply I was referring to you. I said "someone" that only spents a few days in the woods and since I had no idea how much time you spend I made a very general statement that you took personally.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

Thanks for the backup Bob, livbucks, and UB300.
I realize I am fortunate in the areas I hunt. If I can make use of the meat, and help out a farmer at the same time, its all good. Another part of the reason I obtain so many tags is the hunting opportunties it gives me. I am able to hunt all of archery, rifle, and the after Xmas shotgun SRA season. That is a lot of days afield enjoying what I love most.
I have been in big mountain woods areas before the reductions kicked in and seen how tough it can be to take deer there, even when the numbers were higher. I really do feel bad for many of the hunters of PA who just don't have the chances to take deer anymore.

The disparity between suburban areas and big woods areas is HUGE. And unless a person has hunted both, they have a hard time understanding each one's dynamic. The system is flawed, no doubt. The difficulty lies in getting hunter access to areas that need it most. THe interesting thing about those meetings (I attended 2) is that NO one complained about the HR aspect. Everyone was worried about what bucks they were able to shoot. I really don't think many people cared or realized the HR part of the program until it is hitting them in real life now. We are definitely at crossroads here in PA, with a lot of disgruntled people, and a wide varying status of hunting quality. Somethings gotta give.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

Rybo,
been busy and almost missed this thread. Let me put in my support as well. You are legally hunting, using your harvest and helping control numbers in and area where that is a real challenge.


Besides, I met 902 once in the field and have known him here a few years and if he says you're OK then you're OK!

Yes you are fortunate, as am I, to be able to hunt in areas with plenty of deer. I'd bet that didnt just happen though. You probably made it happen by putting in the time to get permission to hunt the places you hunt.

Keep up the good work! those of us hunting closer to urban areas need to make sure that deer densities don't get so out of hand that they cause the habitat damage they have up north. We don't want to follow that bad example. IMHO, it is especially crucial that deer hunters in and around the higher population areas do our job in keeping the herd under control. Keeping the numbers in check cleanly and ethically in the areas where the non hunting voting majority lives is crucial to the perpetuation of our sport.

RE: Pa Buy 'n Burn
 

The reason no one cared about HR is because Alt said he would only reduce the herd by 5 %/yr. and never said that the goal was to reduce the herd by over 50%. instead of talking about HR he talked about balancing the herd with the habitat and improving the B/D ratio, which many interpreted to mean more bucks. But,what it meant was fewer legal buck and much lower buck harvests.

At the same time the herd was being reduced they were telling hunters the herd was increasing to record numbers. The even adopted a new computer model to assure that the herd would increase, even though the old model shows that we have reduce the herd by 40% since 2000. The PGC can fool and mislead hunters for awhile , but eventually the decline becomes so obvious even those that support Alt begin asking what happened to all our deer.