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RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

wonderful another indication that our fearless leaders haven't a clue how to manage the herd in NY. Anyone know what the brain surgeons reasoning is behind this? This ought to be interesting.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

We have the same set up here in PA, our archery opens the first sat in oct. Two weeks later early muzzleloader for antlerless only runs for a week. Also throw in junior and senior hunters for three days during that week. Hasnt seemed to affect the bow hunting here in North Central PA.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

We need to defeat this proposal - at least the early MZ. Here is a link to the NYB. Contact the main officers and your regional reps to offer your support. Take a minute and join also - NYB have been a big factor in the seasons we currently enjoy - they fought hard for us to use Dmp in the early archery season.

NY Bowhunter - are you familiar with the Falcon's Sportsman Club? One of their officers is also an officer of the Cayuga Cty NYSCC. He has stated on another site:
"Where's NYB been all last summer when this was being discussed by DEC, CFAB and NYSCC?

Remember there's more then sportsmen/women who hunt with archery equipment in this world "

I attended 2 meetings of the CCNYSCC this summer and these proposals were never mentioned. I will be at the next meeting at the end of the month and could use support .
Contact me if you may be available .

Steve

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

Yes I am a member at Falcons. You know the officers name?
Mixing the seasons just doesnt' make any sense to me. Bow on October 1st doesn't make much more sense to me.
anyone know the reasoning behind the season changes?

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

NYB - its Tim Noga. I am particularly upset at his "Remember there's more then sportsmen/women who hunt with archery equipment in this world " quote.

Gunhunters have been pushing for the 3rd sat of nov opener for some time. The Oct 1st proposal for bow is to "appease" bowhunters for taking a week from the rut.

Make sure to let Tim know how you feel - (you don't seem like the bashful type):D

Steve

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

Well if they made it a real primitive hunt with muzzle loaders I don't think it would effect bowhunting much at all. I see a few problems with this.

1. I hunt in a shotgun only area. Muzzleloaders have a more effective range then my shotgun.200 yard accuracy and scopes on a muzzle loaders now, doesn't soumd to primitive to me.If they wanted to use a truelly primitive weapon I'd share the woods no problem.

2.The probality that this will lead to a major "poaching" problem. Let's face it the only thing that will keep hunters from dropping big bucks during this week would be their ethics. Which we all know could be a huge problem. I've been hunting for over 25 years and have been checked by Game wardens twice in that time. So what's going to stop people from dropping big bucks during the rut with a more efficiant fire arm then I get to use during the regular season. The three officers that are in my region? I'm considering buying a new muzzloader to take advantage of the extended range it would afford me for regular season gun season.

3. I really don't know how much this will effect the bowseasons movement of deer because I don't think that there are that mnay muzzleloader hunters out there.

How many people here would buy one to take advantage of the antler lesss tags. I personally have no problem filling my anterless tags now.

I hope that everyone concerned will go to meetings and voice their opinion.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

Charlie,

Primitive, I could maybe live with. But in my area, there are a lot of inlines being used now in shotgun season because of there advantages. There are a lot of hunting season only archers that would make the switch. Plus many shotgunners that would take advantage also. This is not a good proposal for bowhunters.

Steve

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

Very good points Charlie P. I think there will be a decent increase in the number of people who will take advantage of this to harvest antlerless deer. Like you I wouldn't have a problem sharing the woods during that time, but how many deer could you have taken this year while bowhunting from 150 yards? 20?30? more? Like shooting fish in a barrel I would say.
My other problem is taking the does before the rut really kicks in can be nothing but counterproductive for harvesting a buck the first 2 weeks of November after "halftime" in bowseason. Patterns are likely to change if there is a substantial # of ML hunters that take advantage of this. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Does anyone know the reasoning behind it?

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

Great I've already had a runin with him over something else.;)

LOL how in the world did you come to that conclusion..[:-]

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

NYB - conclusion reached from reading your posts - I certainly don't mean it as a negative. Anyone who feels strongly about their believes and opinion and is willing to discuss them openly ALWAYS has my respect.

Steve

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

I like the idea of having more time to use the muzzleloader, but not right in the middle of bow. Here's my proposal (part my ideas and some others that were batted around at the state-wide mtgs a few years back):

Bow opens Oct 1st - no big deal just gives a few extra weeks in the woods

Shotgun stays the same (I like the traditional Mon. opener) - I don't really care that much if it were switched to the 3rd Sat.

Muzzleloader starts w/ shotgun - It does anyway. People can feel free to use their ML anytime during regular season.

No late Bow - Not really necessary in my book, especially with 2 extra weeks up front.

Muzzleloader - Starts after Shotgun and goes until.....say, January 20 or whatever. This is where they can give those with muzzleloaders a longer season. Give them enough time that the deer can calm down a bit and get back to "normal". Also give those (like me) that have been hunting since Oct 15 a chance to take a break, relax and then spend a few more days in the woods at their "leisure". Is there any reason that the season can't be this long?? DEC mentioned this at those meeting a few years ago (along with Oct 1 Bow) and I thought it was great, but haven't heard anything about it since.

My vote is no for split bow interupted by ML. If it did become a reality, the least they could do is have that week open to bow hunters as well. Sort of assinine to exclude them for that week.

I will definitely be at the meeting(s) and will be sending some emails to whoever needs to get them (DEC inparticular).

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

Very sensible and fair idea. We should all promote strongly to the DEC. I agree the extra two weeks of bow is meaningless and the current late bow is even more meaningless. Might as well flip flop them and have a longer late season muzzleloader. The only down side to a January season is bucks will be shot for does due to antler drop, but probably not that many anyway. Most hard core hunters are nearly divorced by Xmas anyway so late season will not get hit that hard.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

I took it as a compliment steve.;)

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

omg! are you kidding im going to be hunting in shorts and a tee shirt nxt fall
as far as falcons they can kiss it i signed up for a yr member ship to yrs ago at the turkey shoot anfd jan a few months later they swend me a renuew bill now 1 week less of bow hunting youll have guys shoot 5 shots on 1 deer
as a VERY avid bowhunter this is outrageous

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

you will be surprised as to how many hunters take to the woods on the earlie muzzleloading season, when they started it here a couple of years ago, the sale of muzzleloader stamps skyrocked, when they allowed us to use inlines in Pa. i myself have bought the stamp ever since it came out, but have never used it in the earlie season. i just cant bring myself to set with a gun and watch a nice rack buck walk by without being able to harvest it. this stratagy worked great for me the last 2 years. on the first day of ML. season on both years i got 8pts both years. this year i got skunked.

its amazing how many hunters would like to fill their tags in the warm oct. season rather than set in the cold in november. the only thing with NY that i dont like is only having a couple of days for the late ML season.

anyone have a 9s tag their not going to use i could use one?????

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

maybe they wanted to double bill you because of your poor grammar and spelling???

LOL :D:D:D:D

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

The idea behind the early muzzleloader season is to thin the does before the rut and before food sources become scarce. I remember reading the scientific reasons for this when PA implemented an early doe season. I have a few problems with it. First, my home is out in the woods and I am not a big fan of any type of rifle hunting, muzzleloading or not. I do like that they are single shot. Second, why close the archery season for this week? If the muzzleloading season must happen, I would say start it the last week of September before the opening of archery season.

The idea of opening the first day of firearms on a Saturday is down right scary. As it is now, first day on State land is already pretty close to unsafe. If you get a few more hunters out because of the weekend start we may end up with more "accidents"

What is the link to the NYB? I would like to join the discussion and try to alter these proposed regs. Thanks

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

http://www.newyorkbowhunters.com/

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

I swear they are trying to wipe out the herd all together. That's plain and simply insane to me. Apparantely they are still under the impression that there are too many deer roaming around? Aren't the 7 zillion tags they hand out now enough? At this rate in a few years it will be like the old days when you got really excited if you found a set of deer tracks. Consider it a succesful day in the woods.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

How did bowhunters lose a week of the Rut?

Maybe the weekend opener will get more school kids involved. Taking a kid out of school for a couple days of hunting gets tough with all their work. This Sat opener would let them have that opening day.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

Bow 27 - should have been weekend - not week. And trade off would have been a better description than appease.

This part of the proposal is not the real issue. The closing os archery the 3rd weekend of Oct for a single shot rifle(modern inline) doe kill is. Shotgunners will jump on this(scoped up inlines can be had for $200) to get in the woods a month earlier. We are not talking primitive mz that may share bowhunting techniques. There will be drives, pushes, and pressure just like gun season for a week. It will take at least another week for deer movement to return to normal - the older, smarter deer will probably be nocturnal for the season. Bow season will have been effectvely reduced to the 1st 2 weeks of november.

That is what this is about - loss of most of our season to have an earlier rifle hunt.

Steve

Ps - I as well as NYB are in full and active support of any reasonable programs to get kids involved. On of NYB's summer functions is a series of weekend youth camps where kids are introduced to the fundementals of bowhunting and recieve their bowhunter certificate. Pleas feel free to offer your services to this program.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

I have mixed emotions on the Sat opener, I guess I like the traditional Mon morning feeling, but wouldn't have a problem with Sat.

The muzzleloading I'm unsure about, I agree that in no way are the even close to being primitive or even a handicap. Surprisingly I hear more shots during bow season (turkey and small game I hope) then during regular gun season. Point being is there are plenty people in the woods shooting already I don't think muzzleloaders would be such a big problem. It is supposed to be antlerless only. If you have to give up part of the season to the muzzle's it's not such a bad time to give (it could be worse).

I actually would prefer if they just left it alone.

I just don't want to see bowhunters get nothing and maybe lose a week if the DEC is trying to shoot more does.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

What are these law makers thinking, are they on drugs, smoking to much of the funny stuff. This really hurts bowhunters bad, do all of our scouting all summer long to get 14 days to kill a buck before the guns scare everything way off their patters and then wait another 2 weeks to let the woods calm down, hunting deer with a bow is hard enough now they want to make it even harder. This is crazy!!!!

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

is this county - oriented or state wide?

on a side note, you shoulda seen the gun hunters out here last monday. they thought it was opening day! musta heard 10 rifle shots, guys in orange marching around. these dopes couldnt (or chose not to) understand the regs!

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

moose - I belive this is for southern tier only.

Steve

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

I found an interesting piece on nydeer.com in their talk forums,open discussion, dec propasal, section. It tries to explain what the DEC wants to do and why.

Basically they want more hunting oppurtunities for all grps. of hunters. Bowhunters wanted Oct 1, they got the first Sat. Muzzles wanted more time, they got the week. Gun hunters wanted Sat they got it.

What I found interesting is that they said bowhunters were worried about safety issues with the muzzleloaders week, so they decided to close archery season. I guess that backfired on bowhunters!

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

Who are they?

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

bow27

I checked ot the site - here is my reply posted there:

Seems like there are 3 issues:

1 - Bowhunters would like an earlier opener.
Solution - Move to Oct 1st

2 - Gun hunters would like Sat before Thanksgiving opener instead of Mon.
Solution - Change to Sat - bowhunters would lose 1 weekend but gain 2 weeks at beginning.

3 - Muzzloaders would like a greater opportunity than 7 days at end to fill purchased mz tag.
Solution - let them use the either/or tag for a doe in gun season.

Compromise that nobody loses anything. Not the mz only days they may want, but the modern mz inline is at least as,if not more effective than a slug gun. Many sluggers (myself included) no longer use anything but an inline. I agree that primitive mz would share hunting styles with archery, but not the modern inline.

If areas need a greater doe harvest, then up the tags. I know many good hunters that tag out early and would fill more if available. 17% of 150 would be greater than 17% of 100.

Just some thoughts - I am totaly against the early mz season as proposed because of what it will do to the archery season. But there is a way to compromise.

Steve

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

i'd personally sacrifice the 1st 2 weeks of bow and have them added onto the the late bowseason at end of gun(late dec) i never see SQUAT early in the year, though i do enjoy the warm weather!

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

and what does having a few missspelled words have to do with that?

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

Like I said earlier I liked the way it is. But if they are going to give the muzzleloaders a week it's not that bad. I am sure if bowhunters complain enough about it being in the middle of their season they could just put it at the last week, the one before opening day so there wouldn't be any interruption. I'de like to hear the complaining then..

Well I'm off. Good Luck to all on opening day.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

Here's an Idea, start bowhunting oct 1 and run it straight until Nov 10 then run firearms season until to Dec 5 then give muzzleloaders and late season archers until Dec. 20, see everyone is happy. Everyone has ample amount of time in the woods with their weapon of choice. This way bowhunters get early season to get on that patterened buck and Pre-rut to use all of the calls and horns and see signs of the rut, Then the shotgun hunters get what they all ways wanted to hunt the rut with a gun for a few weeks, then muzzleloaders and late archers get the post rut which can be even better than the rut itself, and get to use pre-rut and rut tactics, while hunting the food sources. I hope NY makes the right choice.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

So do I - the current proposal is NOT it. Your would have fewer objections

Steve

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

personally I think they should go with the Sat opener and if the muzzle loaders want a week ( which I guess they deserve after all they do spend the money for an extra tag ) give them the week before shotgun this would make it a little less confusing

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

I just read through this, and I agree this is not the answer.

It should be simple.

Bow
MZ
Shotgun
Late MZ and Bow (if need be)

Alot of southern states have what I feel is the right way to go.
Simply:
Bow Oct 1-Nov 10 or so
MZ Nov 11-18 give or take (usually the time of the rut)
Gun until the first weekend in Jan closes. (although some do not allow hunting on Sunday, so that explains the longer timeframe)

This would allow for enough harvesting to control the population numbers. Even if a portion of the gun is limited to antlerless, it will have the desired effect.Virginia sometimes has a antlerless only week the weekend before the gun season closes so the final weekend returns to all goes down. This has worked well for them.

However, I really feel this new option is not the answer, and I am too mixed on the Saturday opener. But I do understand the DEC logic with Sat. and that part may work. Everything else can get flushed down the crapper IMO.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

As you can see by the variances in the posts/suggestions, this issue is not going to be easy to solve. Everyone has their own agendas (myself included - however I hunt with all implements so I can say I am fairly "impartial"). If "we" can't come up with a unified solution, the proposed changes are going to go thru. My "simple" solution is:

1) start bow early or not - doesn't make much difference to me. As most bowhunters have stated here - those 2 weeks would be mostly unproductive and tend to be rather warm. Lets say it starts Oct. 1 (we can have some armed scouting)

2) start the gun season on the new proposed Saturday (a compromise for me, who likes the traditional monday and a bowhunter who will lose a good weekend) - this seems to be what the "majority" of hunters want so why not (eventhough it may overcrowd the woods on that weekend?)

3) gun season - the 29 days from the saturday opener - as is the case now, muzzleloaders can use their MLs in this season. additionally, allow MLers to use their ML tag during this season (I believe now they can only use their regular buck tag and/or doe permit)

4) late season(s) ML and/or bow - I personally don't care if there is a late bow. I would just assume give the MLers "their own" season late. let's make it a worthwhile season (say from end of gun for 3 weeks). this would allow the deer to "calm down" after gun season. it also allows the MLers a longer opportunity to utilize their implement that they did purchase a license for

To me, this seems rather simple and fair. Everybody gets a little something and nothing is really taken away from the bowhunters.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

doughboysigep - great post! A compromise where everyone gains something and no group is a big loser.

Thanks
Steve

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

Having an agreed season is not a viable option to stop the changes from occuring. It can only be of use after the primary need.

In politics (which this undoubtedly is unfortunately), winning elvolves around organization and presentation ( in this case an organized effort AGAINST the proposed season changes).

There is no point whatsoever of agreeing on a season without being organized enough to stop the current proposed changes from passing.
It will require numbers that would be darn near impossible unless funding is offered to a central group that opposes the changes (lobbying essentially in one form or another). This would allow for advertising the issues and the reasoning behind it ie. making aware of the meetings the state has planned to hear feedback, etc.

I see this as highly impossible given the time frame they are looking to pass this by (in time for printing of the next season guidebooks). So, unless someone steps up bigtime, or a group jumps into the frying pan...get ready for this poor choice.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

you had the answer - groups need to get involved. if everyones local hunting club, sportsmen's association, etc and all individuals were to send a simple email to the DEC/stat politicians, things could get done (that's how our system of govt works). if we could settle on some type of unified front (take my suggestions for instance - it is quite brilliant - lol :D:D:D) then the powers at be would see that there is, not only opposition, but a viable solution. taking the approach that all is for naught and we can't change things, is defeatist and won't solve anything. imo