RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

All the fuss seems to be from bowhunters and the week of muzzleloader season during the early bow season.They have no problem with the late muzzleloader season and being in the woods with the muzzleloaders.As a blackpowder hunter,I like the idea of being in the woods when it's warmer,I just don't like that it is doe only.Bowhunters can take either or,but I have to pass on a trophy.It just isn't right.Give the bowhunters the whole early season to themselves and give the muzzleloaders a longer season after the regular season for themselves.1 week of muzzleloader season is too short.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

I know very very few bowhunters that go out in the last seaon - deer are just too wired to get close to. Are you a primitive BP hunter? If not , could you tell me why you need any early season with a scoped inline 200 yd weapon before gun? If allowed, would not the chance to fill your mz tags during the regular season not give you the expanded season you are seeking to fill your tags? Just trying alternative ideas where all could gain and none lose much.

Remember, one the possibilities of appearing to the DEC to have no common ground in seeking changes to the season is that there will be no change. Then no group gets anything.

Steve

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

mdrbowler99 - I did not see your last couple lines until after I replied. A longer season at the end would be fine. As I said, I know few bowhunters that go out then. Do you see or know many? Please - I am not trying to to a wise guy at all - just would like more info.
Have a great season

Steve

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

Trust me I am not being defeatist here, merely realistic. I have considerable political science experience (a degree, working for the United Nations in The Netherlands, several local and county positions in NY) and being defeatist implies there is no real hope when in acutality is.

However this is different. There is no hope in a realistic view. If the state were willing to hold off on the decision timeframe, then it might allow for a consolidated organization. However trying to pass this in Jan-Feb makes this impossible to work with. States take longer to agree on simpler tasks (like road names for example), and solving the season issues in three months is literally a challenge that would take a large single group with a large amount of expendable funds. Just will not happen in NYS.

Alas....if we think it could be done..the way to do it is.......
Organize a Single Organization ( Would have to be unofficial since the short time would not allow time spent on getting liscensing from the state).
Have a Board of Directors to get the ball rolling.
Create a web page with all information, an online petition (albeit they are not worth much), a printed out petition that hunters can print, sign, and send in to the DEC, and largely important.....A donation center where money can be contributed.

The money will pay for access to public corporation records ( to find all possible hunt clubs ran as a business which is the norm for clubs with large land tracts, and member bases). Money will be needed to take out ads in local and state publications to explain positions and inform public about meetings etc that the state holds so they can show up to voice further compalint. Money will also pay for the site, and hosting. Also it will pay for costs..ie trips to meet with DEC officials on a one to one basis (assuming the group gets the states attention). Finally it would pay to get other groups involved that may not have particularly have gotten involved....Big Buck clubs, etc etc.

The organization would need many people to do grass roots work...(talking to hunters etc etc to spread word and get the small needed tasks completed)

Not to mention, you would have to find a hard core group willing to sacrifice alot...spent time on work instead of families, their own money, and possibly stand against fellow hunters who want this change.


This will be the only way to stop the impending season. Only a minor miracle will allow the state to change its mind if enough of the single clubs, groups etc voice concern. Chances are it will not happen due to lack of organization, communication, and similar ideas between them. This is precisely why a single group dedicated to the cause needs to be formed.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

I am also a bowhunter but couldn't get out this year for medical reasons.I really don't know of any bowhunters that go out late,but they have a pretty long early season.The muzzleloader season is only 1 week after the season and it seems short for the cost of the license.I hunt for the meat but I also would not like to have to let a trophy go because it was doe only season.I am disabled so it is hard for me to get to areas that deer come in close.This year I am hunting from a portable chair on the edge of an open field duee to the fact that I can barely walk.Thank heaven for my 4 wheeler or I wouldn't be hunting at all.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

Cheers to you for getting out there. Unfortunately... NYS is way behind the times in allowing adaptive use of a crossbow for similar people like you. Many states allow the use of a crossbow after you meet their standards.

NYS only allows use of a crossbow in tandem with a breath oriented release...meaning you have to be paralyzed practically. It is time NY catches up with other states in allowing hunters to remain in the field that have restrictions on their abilities.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

mdrbowler99 - then my suggestion to allow the use of the mz tags during regular season would be great for you. Hope things get better for you - keep trying.

Steve

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

mdrbowler99< What part of NY are you from? If your close might be able to help you out and get you in the woods.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

I really think it could be a bit more simple than that. The DEC does actually listen to the public. Reason for the public meetings - I hear there will be some more this winter?? If we do nothing at all (even simple emails to DEC) we can't complain when these changes pass (if). I actually am not 100% sure they will go through, especially if there is as big of an outcry from bowhunters as appears there will be. Who knows. It would be nice to be able to have a united front but that is asking way too much. I agree with you and your steps that need to be taken to oppose this "correctly", but even the "little" things can help.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

I am from western NY area.I live in Alden and hunt on a friend's farm.Last year was great,saw more deer than ever before,this year stinks,I haven't seen a deer yet.Might be because I'm hunting from a chair on the ground instead of a tree stand like last year.I also don't think that there are as many guys out this year as last year.No shots at all on opening day where I hunted.That just isn't right.I get out quite a bit considering my situation.Went out today and saw nothing.Going out Saturday morning,weather permitting.I will get a deer this year,it is just a matter of time.My Omega and I are ready .I forgot to mention that I have a 4 wheeler to get out to the woods.I just drive back and sit at the edge of the woods watching an open field for any action.I have 200 yrds in either direction.Just need a deer to cooperate.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

Hi everyone My name is Leo and im located in Upstate NY and live on Saratoga Lake. I bow, muzzleload and rifle hunt and love bow most of all. I support the early muzzleloader season because of this. I know way to many people that hunt buck only and pass up does all the time. Last year i took out 3 doe with my bow and 1 with gun. I never harvested a buck. Everyone thought i had a dissapointing year cause i never got a buck but it was the best year hunting i ever had to me. What im getting at is that the buck to doe ratio where i live is outta control. Better then 20-1 ratio im sure. It makes me sick of all the bow hunting friends i know that pass up doe because they want a buck that usually dont come during bow cause there is no rut and the bucks are following the does. 3 friends last year with bow... No deer for them 3 for me. With an early muzzleloader season for just doe it will help balance out buck to doe populations that needs help being balanced and better the heards to make it threw winter. I mean i know its not going to make alot of bow hunters happy but we have to do what is right to manage the deer population cause if we dont mother nature will and after turkey hunting this year i came across more dead deer then ever. Its friends like mine that should be harvesting does where i live that arent doing there job that is bringing this early muzzleloader season upon us also. This is a step in the right direction even if its just for a year or a couple. Just my opinion.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

Leo, what unit are you in?

I believe deer numbers are not in the order of some of the more southern and western counties. What kind of DMP numbers are there available in your area, did people you know get turned down for them?

Reason I am questioning this is some areas are not even offering DMP tags...Doughboy comes to mind as one who hunts in such an area. The goal is to reduce the numbers state wide(deer population), but in certain areas there are facts going the other way.

You are right in the buck to doe numbers are rough out there, but I believe the first priority is getting deer per square mile and kill count per area/county to a point where they can focus on maintaining the herd at a fair balance both numbers and ratio wise.

Cheers to you though for not hesitating to take a doe, try to turn some of your friends minds.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

You know what? You guys are talking about N.Y.? I live and hunt in N.J. and hunt also in N.Y.[in the ADKS]
I hunt in south Jersey and it sucks!What 80lb. deer? Every year here they are passing a bu****** law, as it is it isnt hard enough to hunt on state land in the pines as it is.I have to walk around a concrete foundation this year to get to my stand,it wasn`t there last year.They said years ago that the Pine Barrens was a watershed and that no developement would happen.Well guess what!!!There are houses going up and property with the patented,"NO TRESPASSING OR HUNTING"signs all over.
I actually think that N.J....JUST.....passed a law stateing that you cant shoot a buck when wearing boxer shorts!
I killed more bucks in 3 yrs [3] in the ADKS than in 3 yrs than in jersey [1].

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

Here in 6K, we are suffering due to the DMP's. We have such a low doe count right now its almost funny. There were a lot of does last year, but the winter took it's toll for sure. In Northern 6K, you'd be lucky to see 2 does on a weekend, let alone a buck. People around here have no respect for the law and shoot the does and use other WMU tags. It's Pitiful. I know of one guy who has shot 4 Bucks so far this year, a 7pt, a big 9pt a 4pt and i think a 5pt. He is a Farmer and Always gets atleast 3 bucks in a year. What he does is goes around at night and spotlights fields, then hunts them in the morning and shoots the bucks. Its horrible. But on the rebound, We hunt Southern Tier in 7J (Cazenovia), and On opening morning I saw 17 different deer (16 does). We have seen well over 50 Deer between 5 of us, and that includes 3 different bucks that are 8+pts, The difference between here and there is unreal! I don't think i've seen 17 deer all year up here. But I think the State should definetaly revamp the system to get the system back incheck, ofcourse you are going to have high deer rates in Southern Zone due to the Lack of A harsh winter, but It's like hunting two different states.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

I am located in 5r in saratoga county. I live 2 minutes from rt 29 which decides the northern and souther boundries which i love cause i hunt northern till southern opens. Of my 6 friends that applied for DMP's in 5R 2 of them recieved them. I used to get 2 each year every so often but was gauranteed 1 but not this year. This year i also purchased a lifetime license for gun, bow and muzzleloader thinking that would help my chances but no way. I am not aware of to the # of permits available in this area as i didnt know you could find out. But i know they cut the number they gave out drastically. Where I hunt it is alot of farm land and my land borders a wildlife preserve so deer numbers are great. I had no oak trees in my woods produce this year so the sign and seeing of deer has been less then ever before. Prior years during bow i used to see 5 or 10 deer and sometimes even more deer feeding in my oaks. I dont think winter killed them off cause i hunt my piece next to the preserve in a swamp from hell and in a days sitting throughout the day i would see doe coming and going. Granted some could be the same deer i counted twice. I know the numbers on my land are still in good number but not down near the oaks and creek due to no acorns. I read somewhere that the deer numbers where i live i believe are less then 2 deer per square mile... my land plus the preserve i would bet there are better then 50 deer and its a probably close to 1000 acres. I hunt almost everyday and have come across a 3,4 and 6 pointer in that time. Thats all. This past weekend i went hunting on the NY/VT border with my friends from VT. who hunt NY. I sat in treestand and counted 19 Doe walk by in a single filed line and not 1 buck with them... I see this alot... 5 or 10 doe and sometimes more go by buckless. This states gos about counting deer the wrong way... fly over with helicoptor i believe and just look out to see what they can see and make number figures that way. With all the doe i see on my land and only 3 bucks I dont care if i dont get a buck cause they will be bigger next year. I'll shoot a doe and save a buck where i live. With the lack of food in the woods where i live and the corn fields already cut the deer cant survive off of just grass.... gonna be a hard winter for deer this year... its gonna be hard to not feed the deer threw the winter monthes to help them but I cant do it and have them become dependent on me.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

Just as I suspected there. If 2 out of 6 got DMP's ( did they get 1 or 2 each?) then you are running at about 33% of successful applications. I am in one of the counties where we are considered a red county, meaning 10,000 or more per year deer kill, and DPM (deer per mile) are high. I did not hear of one hunter getting denied for a dmp in our area.

I take the DEC's choice to limit DMP permits for your area as a sign that they are not looking to cull the herd in that area as much as other areas of the state.

RE: New Yorks 2005 hunting seasons. Bad news for bowhunters
 

i agree. a muzzloading week would be a good transition