Where I hunt QDM means "Quality o Da Meat" Young and tasty! Who wants them old nasty shoes!

"Will Hunt for food"

BTW, the 5.5yr old 8pt I killed weighed 112lbs soaking wet. He was a pine barrens deer, and had never seen an ear of corn or a soybean in his life. My point is that QDM is not 170" deer, it's whatever is a mature buck in your area. I don't think 7.5 or 8.5 yrrs old is necessary either, as long as the dominant bucks are breeding each year, that's the key. As long as there's enough mature bucks in an area to have a balanced ratio, and stiff competition for does, you're OK. The dominant bucks will do the breeding, and their genetics won't improve over the next few years anyway. Hopefully their sons will take their place, and be dominant for their age classes. At least that's howw I understand it.
And nothing wrong with a little filet and release David.

There is no one that I know that hunts here in New England and practices QDM. We leave that to the states that have a lot of deer. Our success rate is only about 8-12% so you could imagine if we had to be selective.

Passion like yours is admirable.

The way I see it... a hunter doesn't have to be gestapo when it comes to QDM. If he/she lets smaller deer pass... hey... that's QDM. If they plant in the offseason... that's another form of QDM. If they shoot a doe before a buck... it's QDM and believe me... it all helps.

Personally, I can't tell the difference between a 4 1/2 yr old deer and an 8 1/2 yr old deer just by looking at them from shooting distances... so I guess I am guilty in that respect. I hunt a lot of suburban area here in Pittsburgh... so I am willing to bet that a 4 1/2 yr old buck can easily make 130. Regardless, I've passed on 9 bucks this year... and 8 or 9 last year and just as many the year before that weren't shooter bucks because like you, Buck Magnet, I won't shoot a buck under 130-ish... unless it is a cull deer.

Official disclaimer for davidmil-Unless I'm in Maryland].<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

I ALWAYS harvest at least one doe [sometimes two] before I take a buck... I plant in the off season... and I place salt blocks... I clearcut, open existing/new travel routes... and then some. So yes... I suppose I am into the QDM thing.

My point is... just because someone doesn't hunt by the same standards as you or me... that fact doesn't make them wrong.. or what's the word I am looking for...? It doesn't make them hypocrites. It just means they aren't into the QDM thing as far as we are.

I see your point... but only partial aspects of QDM will become mandatory... Other aspects of QDM will only be implemented on a personal level [aside from what the state already implements]. It's kinda hard to comdemn another hunter even when they are minimally contributing to QDM.

When I think about it... it's still 100% more effort than the hunter who does absolutely nothing for the herd... besides b!tch at those of us who do.

-DT

Edited by - PA DropTine on 02/26/2002 12:48:09

Isn't your buck to doe ratio pretty good up there? How about the age structure of the bucks? I have a cottage in Maine, and when you hunt up there, you see maybe 1 or 2 deer a week, but the one you see is almost as likely to be a mature buck as anyting else.
If it's the same near you, I would imagine the only QDM that needs to be done is more food and some coyote hunting.

In my county.... the herd is way out of whack... or at least it &quot;was&quot; before this season. Parts of Westmoreland are fairly lopsided as well.

Depending on which survey you believe... the Allegheny doe population outnumbers the buck by nearly 8:1... and that is being conservative [according to some].

Don't ask where I received that info from... I can't remember. However, being in the woods nearly every day this year... leads me to believe these numbers are pretty close [in some areas].

In other counties... the &quot;doe:buck&quot; ratio isn't nearly as bad... which re-opens the &quot;Alt&quot; can of worms which, I'm sure, most of us would rather see in a separate thread to ensure this one stays on topic.

Thanks.

-DT



Edited by - PA DropTine on 02/26/2002 13:03:42

BM,

QDMA is NOT about harvesting 7.5 year olds, it is about protecting yearling bucks.

QDMA is about bringing back the Buck to Doe ratio to a healthy range.

QDMA is about keeping your deer herd at or below the carrying capacity of the land-most QDMA experts say 60%.

QDMA is about improving habitat, whether it be by clearcuts, controlled burns, or fertalization of native vegitation.

QDMA is about education.

QDMA is about using scientific research and facts to dictate the management decision making process, not tradition and baseless whims.

When you describe shooting 7.5 year olds to 8.5 year olds, you would often be shooting bucks on the way down anyways. Even in Texas, where bucks grow slower, there are many prime-age 5.5 to 6.5 year olds.

There have been many 170+ class bucks taken at 3.5 years-not generally in overpopulated areas, but it happens every year.

QDM is not about 130 this or that, in fact genetics are the least talked about piece of the puzzle in QDM, and more emphasis is placed on a healthy older buck, even if he is a gentically inferior buck that only scores 135 in his prime at 6.5 years of age.

The 170-180 stuff is reffering to Trophy Management. Trophy Management is not QDM.

Trophy Management is 6.5 year old bucks, QDM is not.

Trophy Management is genetic minipulation, QDM is not.

QDM principles are implemented in over 20 whitetail states in some form of regulation, Trophy Management principles are not.

QDM principles allow for the harvest of 2.5 year old bucks, Trophy Management does not.

QDM was put together by a group of the top research whitetail biologists in the country, with a mission to promote optimum health in the deer herd, through science and sound biological principles. Trophy Management was put together by game managers in Texas to promote the largest bucks possible through supplemental feeding, genetic minipulation, and high fencing.

Don't confuse the two. Look up the national website, go to a meeting or two, and see for yourself.

Jeff...U.P. of Michigan.

Actually, what you said goes into effect, but what I said came directly from a QDM movie. I suggest that everyone looks at it. These guys are hunting over food plots passing 150-160 class bucks. I agree with you Jeff that what you said is part of QDM, but QDM in its truest form envolves killing the oldest bucks that are past prime. That is what the movie states, it is a Briarwoods Production.

Only a FEW ranches practice true QDM, sure, everywhere else might practice management, that is a very very good thing. The only thing I was talking about was how people say that they &quot;entirely support QDM&quot; when it isn't TRUE QDM. DON'T get me wrong, I love the management that you are all describing, it just isn't plausible in all situations. I feel that if you try to help out the deer herd, that is management, but not 100 percent true QDM.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
&quot;Hunting is not a sport, it is a passion, it is a WAY OF LIFE&quot;

I really agree with Northjeff, well said and put. First of all most deer in the wild don't live to 8 1/2 years. They dye way before that. The only way a deer will live that long is if the deer are fenced in. Now it that QDM. No way. Don't believe everything you see. Take it with a grain of salt. Make your own mind up as to what you feel is QDM. Who made up the defination of QDM anyway? They are just giving you there opinions and that is all. I wish I hade land to do that on. I am planning on moveing to PA north east area and If I get some land like 2 or 3 acres I will do everything possible to feed the deer in my area. So No I don't think QDM is defined as you stated. It is many things and to many areas and are different. But some principles are correct too but not to that extent. NorthJeff gave a better discription of what it means to me.

brian

I hunt public land here in Maine. The management of our deer herd in this state is dealt with by our DIF&W. They determine the appropriate number of any-deer permits that are needed to keep the numbers near right.
I am a meat hunter who can also respect a nice rack. However I will shoot whatever I am allowed by our state wildlife managers to shoot. They are the professionals who have evaluated the herd and the numbers of what sexes need to be reduced to effectively keep the herd healthy and strong. They tell me what they will allow me to shoot. Within that limitation the only restriction I place on myself is to look for the largest deer I can find.
I consider myself as a participant in this hunting plan to be a supporter of QDM. If your state is in a different situation with it's herd then maybe you need different restrictions than we have in Maine. As we don't seem to have all the bickering that yopu folks in PA do I guess that's probably the case, but I don't want anyone to go spreading the &quot;if you don't hunt this way you are a slob hunter&quot; manure all over this forum.
Happy hunting.