Simple then - just share with us this verification and documentation from REPUTABLE sources. Until you do - GET OVER IT - our disbelieve that is.

Steve

Read it and weep.....The burden of proof is on you.

Nice link.

You'll notice 1 incident in NY, in 1993.

Perhaps you overlooked the part that said "the lack of claw marks on the back and shoulders could mean that the cat is a declawed animal that has escaped or was released from captivity" and that " a declawed mountain lion was reported as escaped near Lafargeville, ny.."

That is usually the case in these incidents.


If we had wild living, breathing mountain lions in NY .... Why no more evidence since 1993?

I had made a couple of posts on this topic in a previous thread, but have been staying out of this one due to the fact that now matter what evidence was brought up there are people that refuse to believe or even consider the fact that there are mountain lions in NY - I do not believe there are very many of them and I do not know how they got here; be it released pets or DEC whatever, but they are here.

The reason that I am posting this is because, on Friday 5/20/05 my brother Michael was fishing on Elton creek in the town of Delevan, NY on Delevan Elton Rd., and he personally saw a mountain lion.

Now let me give you some background on this. Since last summer there have been three vehicles sighted along the rd that follows Elton Creek - these vehicles do not have any DEC logos or any other distinguishing makings that would lead me to belive that they are DEC or NYS Fish and Game officials, but the one vehicle has a License Plate the Says WEHUNT.

These vehicles have been sighted many times by my parents, my parents neigbors, and myself with a radio tracking reciever scanning the woods on the other side of the creek. The wood over there covers a very large area. It is a pretty much square section of woods the goes between California Hill Rd., to Elton Rd, and from Delevan Elton Rd, to Bixby Hill Rd.

There have also been complaints by my parents neighbors that say that about 2AM every night their dogs go nuts barcking at something in the creek bed. My brother has fished this creek since he was twelve he and myself both spend more time on the water and in the woods than almost anybody I have ever met. We have both seen mountain lions while visiting my uncle Gary in ID and my uncle shot one with his bow a couple of years ago. So it is not like we are some city folk that think a woodchuck is a bear cub we know or stuff and we have ran traplines for years in this same secion of woods. I have personally seen Black bear up there and know that there are sections of that wood that people just have never made it to when deer hunting.

The incident that occured on 5/20/05 - was this; my brother was fishing and heard something behind him. He has kicked up deer many times in the thick brush in the creek bottom so he didn't think much of it. He turned around and saw something large and very lite brown moving through the brush about 25 yards away. He said it was lighter than a deer. He expected to see the white tail of a deer flash as it ran off but it didn't run it slowly workedd its way through the brush to the edge of the woods near a large ridge. When it slarted to walk in to the woods and up the ridge my brother could clearly see that it was a mountain lion. He said it was easily 6 to 7 feet long and had a very long tail. He felt a little uneasy at this point and figured he had done enough fishing for the day.

We both figure without any hard evidence we would here the typical "where's the picture" from everyone so we are going back down to the creek over the next couple of days to look for tracks, a kill, scatt, or some hair where it had been beded down.

Since we were kids we have been told there were mountian lions over there and that people have seen tracks in the creek bed made from a large cat and that was 20 years ago. If anyone has any info on and agency or whatever that the people with the tracking device might be from I would love to know. As for what we find. I will be keeping you all posted.

When I was a kid we saw two mt. lions in NY state - near Oneonta.

Funny, but that site proves absolutely nothing.

#1 it comes from a site that purposely believes cougars exsist here in natural state with a breeding population (ie not just releases).

#2 I see no evidence whatsoever in that page that shows scientific results. All it does is talk, talk, talk talk, with no proof. Show the analysis sheets by the agencies, etc. for real proof. Or even compliment that with a quote from one of the staff members who worked on the cases.

#3 I liken this site to sites that try to persuade others about alien invasions, etc. Tons of evidence that is purposely left out, or tweaked to make it believeable without direct proof. Like calling the sightings CONFIRMATIONS.... If it were a confirmed event, the site would have much better evidence that proved their case, and yet again, I see none of that.

I agree that releases from pet/animal owners may have happened, but having a natural living wild poulation is absurd without better indicating proof.

Not only that but the leaf covered deer, that is supposed to be a tell-all has to be cougar because no other logical explination can possibly proive us wrong trait....looks to be dead during FALL...last time I checked, fall means leaves come off trees.

And the pictures show little evidence other than proving it was a windy night before the deer was found. Notice that there are no bare spots around the animal that show evidence of leaves being scraped up.

here's a link for anyone who has seen a mt.lion in NY.

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/r...cougar_frm.pdf

just make sure that you are not reporting bobcats, housecats, golden retrievers, ect...
If you are not at least 95% sure of what you saw don't waste you time or the DEC's and try to find some concrete evidence as soon as possible after the sighting. Rain does alot to eliminate tracks in dirt and if at all possible snap a picture.

Just figured that if enough people that legitimately think they have seen a mt.lion report it and follow the proper steps after seeing it that some evidence might actually get documented.

They are here however low numbers they are and for whatever reason. If they are escaped pets then why are they never investigated or attemps made to possibly capture it if it is? An escaped pet lion would be ten times more dangerous loose in the wild than a wild one.

As for any evidence for the nonbelievers.

http://www.easterncougarnet.org/

you want a scientific approach and scientific proof, click it and start reading.

Breaking news and big picture most importantly.

How bout that young male that is collared that they have proven to have traveled over 450 miles from south dakota and has been found in wisconsin(where they are not supposed to be). He did that in six monthes of traveling after collared. Think what a male might roam in a 8 year life span.

The western population is so big right now that they are naturally recolonizing into the mid west and plains states up to the missippi and a bit beyond NATURALLY. That site proves it. Albeit low numbers but they have done so from western populations naturally. Like it or not.

If they are not in NY in low numbers already ....... they will be within 10 years ALL by natural movements from over crowding territory out west.

These cat move and roam a LOT which makes them all that much harder to find in low numbers.

I live in north western broome county and due to the rivers, creeks, highways and roads in the area, any animal roaming through that area kind of gets funneled right into north west endicott west corners area. We have seen 6 seperate sightings over 7 past years of big cats. I think these cats are simply passing through and we are fortunate enough to be in the right lay of the land to happen by the occassional 10 second glance. they are here.

As for wolves ...... that is a whole nother story.

There is currently a study going on about the eastern yotes and why northeastern yotes are soooooo much larger than western yotes. Western yotes are approx 35 pounds but eastern yotes freequently go upwards 50 to 60 pounds and some scientist are curious why.

They have done big capture DNA test groups of yotes in NY and Maine, and currently they are testing or trying to gather another test group from Massachusettes yotes according to the article. I'll see if I can't find it as the article is a good informative read.

They have found that the majority of eastern yotes are a hybrid and mutt of sorts at the DNA lvl. The Canadian Eastern wolf or red wolf was thought to have been next to extinct. The red wolf is much smaller than it's western cousin the western timber wolf. Scientists doing the study think that the western coyote migrated to eastern habitat in low numbers and being there was a lesser of a size difference between the two species and that numbers were so low of both species that they had to have begun interbreading from naturally seeking out a mate. Unfortunately numbers were so low of both species that they didn't care what they were doing it with just they were doing it with another dog.

Of the two test groups(I think if i recall the artical correctly was 30 yotes and like 55 yotes) they found that at a DNA lvl the eastern yotes are a mix of the western yote and eastern canadian wolf or red wolf. The majority is this mix bread of the yotes they captured and DNA tested but there are two smaller percentages that swing the other way. Lack of exact numbers but lets say 10% is most closely related to the western yote at DNA level and 10% are closer to eastern redwolf at the DNA lvl.

Not to mention if you have ever seen the two, you would look at the red wolf and say boy what a big coyote.

They used to have some red wolves in the zoo in Binghamton new york but one got out and some neighbor shot it. This happend not to long ago ...... like 6 or 8 monthes tops. The zoo never figured out how the wolf got out loose so they actually got rid of the other ones they had so that it wouldn't happen again. Shamefull at best and it was all over the news here locally. They never found out who shot it but assumed one the neighbors around the zoo. If you know the area there are quite a few house...... not like it's rural by any means.

So those of you that see one them big yotes that makes you say boy that is one big yote ....... well it might not be a yote. I'll see if I can't find that article ....... someone else posted it here many many monthes ago.

Thanks for that link ....... interesting being in recent past there was no such sheet or form to contact the DEC and make a valid claim. I find it interesting there is one now. I have tried to report sightings with the DEC and they simply don't want nothing to do with any of them weather valid and legitamate or not.