Looking for help on building a 3-D course
02-18-2002, 10:18 AM
#1
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Havre de Grace MD USA
Posts: 703
Looking for help on building a 3-D course
I have about 85 acres and am looking to construct a 3-D course. I want to do it right the first time. So I am gathering information before I start. I need all info related to this topic...course layout, safety concerns, insurance, etc...
Anything will be appreciated.
Edited by - tribalscream on 03/01/2002 12:06:22
Anything will be appreciated.
Edited by - tribalscream on 03/01/2002 12:06:22
02-20-2002, 11:56 AM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh PA USA
Posts: 186
RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
E-mail me...
I've closely participated in the design of two 40-target 3D courses.
Here is a short list of things to consider:
Aerial maps will help a lot. If you don't have one... make a simple sketched Aerial view of your own. Trust me... this will help. Once you have this map... frame or laminate it and hang it on the wall for easy reference.
Contact your insurance agent for quotes... if needed. Don't trust a strager with your liability issues. Also... most liability clauses will differ from state to state. I.e. in Pa, a liability waiver means nothing when it comes to someone getting injured on our property. Don't believe it? Call your attorney ann find out for yourself.
Will it be a 30 or 40 target course?
Will it be an IBO tournament course.. or a casual course to ready other hunters for the upcoming season? If IBO... you must adhere to the specs found on the I.B.O. website.
If intended to be used as a local club competition range only... heck, you are limited only to your imagination. Over the years I've seen some pretty crazy/outrageous/hysterical shots.
Are there any water hazards involved?
Are there any hills involved...?
Is it possible to wind the course past your starting point? This way... you can offer the shooters a break in the middle of the course? Additionally, you will be selling more refreshments than if you only have them stop back after the shoot is over.
How do you plan to set out targets? 10 from the front... ten from the rear... and meet in the middle? The number of targets [and number of participants/helpers] will dictate the most efficient method.
How many people will help you set out the targets during the 3D shoots? If no one shows up to help... can you do this on your own? 4 wheelers work great... but tractors work best. After a while, you will find yourself replacing belts... and making repairs on any four wheeler.
Do you live in an area where these targets can be left out for extended periods?
Storage of targets is always an issue.
Repairing targets is always [never] fun.
Safety issues? Easy... make sure all shots are away from other targets and travel routes between every target. Nothing worse than hearing an arrow zipping through the woods overhead or nearby.
Are there going to be any other events [shotgun sports] held on the same day as your 3D shoots?
Does anyone else have access to this land? Will they object to your using the entire 85 acres? Ask for their input.. because it's always better to ask... than to be forced into re-cutting a course. TRUST ME! Do it right the first time.
Also... if you plan to have steps anywhere on the course [stands or on steep hills] ...make sure they are coated with a non-skid material [all of them].
Moving targets? Sure... but there are a few considerations which need to be discussed... i.e. manual [another person needed], automatic, or self started [gravity/pull rope].... not to mention safety issues.
More than one target at a single station? Yep.
Elevated stands? Sure... [IMO] they are the best shots on the course.
Water targets? Woohoo! You betcha!
Finally... it will be difficult at first... but with a few dedicated friends... and an equal amount of quality chain saws, pruners and weed whackers... you can have a course completed in a few weeks.
Do you have access to a brush-hog? If so... this makes things a little easier... sometimes but is not necessary.
Like I said... feel free to send e-mail and I will help as much as possible.
-DT
Edited by - PA DropTine on 02/20/2002 13:18:31
I've closely participated in the design of two 40-target 3D courses.
Here is a short list of things to consider:
Aerial maps will help a lot. If you don't have one... make a simple sketched Aerial view of your own. Trust me... this will help. Once you have this map... frame or laminate it and hang it on the wall for easy reference.
Contact your insurance agent for quotes... if needed. Don't trust a strager with your liability issues. Also... most liability clauses will differ from state to state. I.e. in Pa, a liability waiver means nothing when it comes to someone getting injured on our property. Don't believe it? Call your attorney ann find out for yourself.
Will it be a 30 or 40 target course?
Will it be an IBO tournament course.. or a casual course to ready other hunters for the upcoming season? If IBO... you must adhere to the specs found on the I.B.O. website.
If intended to be used as a local club competition range only... heck, you are limited only to your imagination. Over the years I've seen some pretty crazy/outrageous/hysterical shots.
Are there any water hazards involved?
Are there any hills involved...?
Is it possible to wind the course past your starting point? This way... you can offer the shooters a break in the middle of the course? Additionally, you will be selling more refreshments than if you only have them stop back after the shoot is over.
How do you plan to set out targets? 10 from the front... ten from the rear... and meet in the middle? The number of targets [and number of participants/helpers] will dictate the most efficient method.
How many people will help you set out the targets during the 3D shoots? If no one shows up to help... can you do this on your own? 4 wheelers work great... but tractors work best. After a while, you will find yourself replacing belts... and making repairs on any four wheeler.
Do you live in an area where these targets can be left out for extended periods?
Storage of targets is always an issue.
Repairing targets is always [never] fun.
Safety issues? Easy... make sure all shots are away from other targets and travel routes between every target. Nothing worse than hearing an arrow zipping through the woods overhead or nearby.
Are there going to be any other events [shotgun sports] held on the same day as your 3D shoots?
Does anyone else have access to this land? Will they object to your using the entire 85 acres? Ask for their input.. because it's always better to ask... than to be forced into re-cutting a course. TRUST ME! Do it right the first time.
Also... if you plan to have steps anywhere on the course [stands or on steep hills] ...make sure they are coated with a non-skid material [all of them].
Moving targets? Sure... but there are a few considerations which need to be discussed... i.e. manual [another person needed], automatic, or self started [gravity/pull rope].... not to mention safety issues.
More than one target at a single station? Yep.
Elevated stands? Sure... [IMO] they are the best shots on the course.
Water targets? Woohoo! You betcha!
Finally... it will be difficult at first... but with a few dedicated friends... and an equal amount of quality chain saws, pruners and weed whackers... you can have a course completed in a few weeks.
Do you have access to a brush-hog? If so... this makes things a little easier... sometimes but is not necessary.
Like I said... feel free to send e-mail and I will help as much as possible.
-DT
Edited by - PA DropTine on 02/20/2002 13:18:31
02-20-2002, 01:22 PM
#3
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
Probably the best way to design a course is to attend shoots at as many different clubs as possible to gain insight and ideas. Droptines ideas are all great and obviously come from experience. I cant expand on what he said because he said it very well.
If I could give one suggestion it would be to say that you cant make it too
"Idiot proof" Mark your trails so wellthat no-one can get lost and someone still will. You can make all the shots reasonably safe and some moron will make it unsafe.
Other than that, good luck and have fun!
If I could give one suggestion it would be to say that you cant make it too
"Idiot proof" Mark your trails so wellthat no-one can get lost and someone still will. You can make all the shots reasonably safe and some moron will make it unsafe.
Other than that, good luck and have fun!
02-20-2002, 01:37 PM
#4
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Havre de Grace MD USA
Posts: 703
RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
Thanks for the help...I have already started to look at other courses. I feel the exchange of ideas always helps to improve what has already been done. Should the course have separate areas for novice and expert? or should targets vary in difficulty in the same course? What is a decent number of targets to start with? What are some of the better course designs you've seen?...in other words...what would you do?
OK,OK...we have to take care of the legal and the insurance...so we will- let's move on.
We want to focus on design right now.
Edited by - tribalscream on 03/01/2002 12:06:55
OK,OK...we have to take care of the legal and the insurance...so we will- let's move on.
We want to focus on design right now.
Edited by - tribalscream on 03/01/2002 12:06:55
02-20-2002, 03:28 PM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
To do both is a challenge. Serious competitors want open, unobstructed long shots while the fun guys want shorter distances but sometimes enjoy obstructions (that you can SOMEHOW get around or through)
Our club used both hunter pegs as will as comp pegs with good response from both groups. Different brands and exotic targets appeal to the fun crowd (I've seen dinosaurs, gators, armadillos, bionic deer etc) The comp guys want targets they know (mckenzies) so they can shoot for that score. Play with scenes ... shooting past the doe to get the buck ... the black bear under a dark grapevine tangle... any tall target over a hump is always a mindblower. One time we put the top half (only)of a standing bear over a little hump, at the end of the day his head was all shot up cause everyone thought he was way further and shot high. I guess the main ingredient is variety though. mix up the distances, positions and the targets to keep the course interesting.
BTW ask your local insurance agent to talk to Northland Insurance Co. They are very fair with shooting club and commercial range liabilityand will work with any independent agent. If he cant find them email me and I'll gve you their number. I think they are available in most all states.
Our club used both hunter pegs as will as comp pegs with good response from both groups. Different brands and exotic targets appeal to the fun crowd (I've seen dinosaurs, gators, armadillos, bionic deer etc) The comp guys want targets they know (mckenzies) so they can shoot for that score. Play with scenes ... shooting past the doe to get the buck ... the black bear under a dark grapevine tangle... any tall target over a hump is always a mindblower. One time we put the top half (only)of a standing bear over a little hump, at the end of the day his head was all shot up cause everyone thought he was way further and shot high. I guess the main ingredient is variety though. mix up the distances, positions and the targets to keep the course interesting.
BTW ask your local insurance agent to talk to Northland Insurance Co. They are very fair with shooting club and commercial range liabilityand will work with any independent agent. If he cant find them email me and I'll gve you their number. I think they are available in most all states.
02-20-2002, 05:58 PM
#8
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Havre de Grace MD USA
Posts: 703
RE: Looking for help on building a 3-D course
Well BT, you and DT really have had a lot of sound advice, and yes I would like to get that insurance guy's number. Just from what I've heard so far, it sounds like the NON-IBO course would be a whole lot more fun with realistic hunting scenarios. <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Serious competitors want open, unobstructed long shots while the fun guys want shorter distances but sometimes enjoy obstructions (that you can SOMEHOW get around or through)
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
And sometimes those guy's are just that...too serious.
So to answer your question, I think I would build for people to have fun...but you know how quick an ego can start a competition.
OK, so we want a "recreational" course that hinges loosly on a competitive set-up, right?
Edited by - tribalscream on 03/01/2002 12:09:01
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
And sometimes those guy's are just that...too serious.
So to answer your question, I think I would build for people to have fun...but you know how quick an ego can start a competition.
OK, so we want a "recreational" course that hinges loosly on a competitive set-up, right?
Edited by - tribalscream on 03/01/2002 12:09:01