RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

Wouldn't that eventually put them out of a job??

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

I should have written that more clearly.


I have nothing against college boys........the letters after my name are just as long as my name ;)


I prefer to judge people by their actions........not some paper on the wall :)

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

Why??.........there is much more for the DEC to do then care for deer. Plus, if money is coming in from other sources that want deer numbers down they aren't really losing and in fact probably making more money.

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

making money, until there's no deer right?

Deer hunting brings in millions to the state I can't see them wanting to decimate the herd.

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

Your trying to read the DEC's mind aren't you? ;):D[8D];)

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RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

I think it's time to put up or shut up,Atlasman you have been challenge to provide evidence or this case will be dismissed;)

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

There will never be NO deer.......no matter how hard they try ;)

You don't really believe that insurance companies and others that wish to see deer numbers reduced don't have millions of dollars do you??

Seems to me that the best of both worlds would be to replace money from hunters from a different avenue while still convincing hunters that their are plenty of deer out there to go chase.........that makes you more money and is much easier to accomplish because there is no way you are going to pull that off the other way around. Car accidents and crop damage are documented and easy to total up........you can't BS those groups into thinking it isn't happening. Hunters on the other hand can just be told that they aren't good enough, or trying hard enough or everyone else is doing fine so the problem must be related to you or your personal tract of land............trust us there are plenty out there no matter what your field experience shows.

Problem is now hunters are talking with other hunters more then ever and realizing they AREN'T the only ones noticing this...........hopefully it will only be a matter of time before we get together and do something about improving this before it's too late.

One important thing to remember is that the majority of hunters (just average weekend guys) only have one source for deer info and that is the DEC. They have neither the time nor the energy to do extensive research to check the validity of what they are told and truthfully most wouldn't do it if they could.......they just don't care enough. This sets the stage for a large group of people that can be easily influenced by stories of a growing herd and how sweet it is for deer hunters in NY..........and they are prime targets for the "you're not trying hard enough" excuse because they know they only put in a few weekends a year so it could be true in their case. I am willing to bet if you took a poll of hunters coming out of the woods after opening day of shotgun season the majority would not have a clue what the condition of the herd is. It is a recipe for disaster when the almighty dollar is involved.


Of course that is just one possible way we got where we are today. It could be that the DEC is just incompetent and they really do think the herd is growing instead of shrinking. They could be depending on poor data and really have good intentions but bad tools to work with. It could be a combination of all these things. It could also be pressure from the state for the DEC to do things a certain way and they really don't have much say in it.


It doesn't really matter to me what the real reason is........the bottom line is that things need to change and a good start to that would be better communication between hunters and the DEC so we both are in agreement as to the real conditions that exist in the woods we stroll through every day.

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

Wouldn't that be great :D Wish I could.

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

What's the difference?? Who cares who is doing the collecting or counting.......as long as someone is doing it right I don't care if they have horses stomping their feet........in fact technicians sounds even better because they should be a cheaper work force and easier to handle financially if the demand for hours was to rise.


I'm sure they can find a way to get a few technicians out in the field for some data collection. Besides, anyone can use a barcode reader so the technicians could still be free to collect bio data when needed. How hard is it to scan tags with a barcode reader??? If they can teach 16 year old girls to do it at Wal-Mart I'm sure the DEC can figure it out.....(well maybe).


Me and 99% of the other hunters out there.........but that is meaningless because we didn't go to school with you :eek:


Ask any average hunter what he would want (weekend guys) and they will tell you more deer. They don't care about huge racks or record books.......sure bucks are a nice bonus but the bottom line is they want to feel like they have a legit chance at seeing deer and maybe getting one for the freezer. This doesn't mean we have to have deer behind every tree but when you have groups of guys out for a week straight and the lucky one of the group is the guy who even saw a deer.......you have a problem. No one pretends to believe that deer everywhere are good for our woods or farms but there is no doubt in my mind that the deer herd can be maintained at a much higher level then it is right now. There is a big difference between managing a herd and depleting one.


And all you are going on is a "feeling" that the DEC's data is accurate and 100% truthful in it's presentation. No one knows for sure if the DEC has reliable people collecting this data and processing it and when they tally it all up whether or not it has a large error margin or perhaps the numbers are fudged a little here and there to keep people on both sides of the fence happy. No one knows these things for sure except the upper levels at the DEC and the state............you don't and I don't. You however have blind faith in the DEC that every word out of their mouths is gospel. Me??......I prefer to match what they are telling me with what I and countless others are seeing and experiencing in the field year after year. When the two of those not only don't match but are in fact polar opposites then something's rotten in Denmark.

If the DEC was telling me there were deer all over the place and I saw deer all over the place I would say they were doing a good, accurate job of counting the herd.

It's common sense really.



Good thing you got a handle on that arrogance thing..........and weren't you the one whining a couple posts back about name calling?? Your hypocrisy is so engrained you can't even see it


Your points are so silly they are barely worth a response. You know very well that no individual has the time, equipment or ability to do all that by himself while working full time and having a family...........guess what??.....THAT'S WHAT THE DEC IS FOR!!!!!

You are getting way off track now and focusing too much on the counting thing. I never said that inaccurate counting was FOR SURE the cause of the DEC blundering. It is very possible that it is......but there are a whole host of other reasons that could be the cause. In the end I don't give a frog's fat one what the cause is.........bottom line is I want that cause eliminated so we stop getting pumped up numbers about a herd exponentially growing beyond capacity because it just isn't the case. First thing they have to do is admit they have a problem.......then we can talk about fixing it. You are missing the big picture.


You know what??.......you are so willing to blindly follow the data and stats being flashed before your eyes and totally ignore all the first hand knowledge and experience of what is going on in the real world.

If you want an example of how blindly following data or falsely using that data to get what you want can backfire when the truth comes out why don't you call George W. Bush and ask him how his search for WMD is going ;)

Now with an example like that from the highest agencies in the land of how you can convince people to do anything if you stretch the truth or bend reality to fit your plans......do you really think that it is impossible for the DEC to be blowing smoke when millions of dollars are out there for the taking??

It's not conspiracy paranoia or not trusting the govt. It's just reality. These kinds of things happen when politicians and money and agencies and policies all get thrown in the blender with a pile of cash.

If you think for one minute that the DEC cares more about you then they do your money you are in serious need of a reality check...........I'm even fine with that......take my money, but damn man at least use it to provide us with what we want to enjoy every day..........nice woods with animals to hunt.