deaddeer

I know this doesn't answer your question , but here is an interesting quote from DR. Rosenberry.
All of that increase occurred from 1998 to 2000,when the PGC claimed the herd increased by 30% due to low anterless harvests in 98 and 1999 when the avg.anterless harvest was 190K.

The harvests between 1989 and 1997 kept the herd stable. Two years of low anterless harvests resulted in a 30% increase and now even with 1 M tags and the concurrent seasons , the herd is still increasing by 1.6% a year . Therefore Alt's plan has failed to reduce the herd or even keep it stable .

You may disagre if you like, but those are the facts.

leffler

i dont have any major problems with the new rules in pa. . . . .i think they are definatly working

deaddeer

That's nice ,but on what are you basing your opinion? Have the new regulations reduced the herd as designed? Has AR doubled the number of 8 pt. buck as promised? has the B/D ratio improved?

MikeE51848

Thank you for starting this thread, but we will probably never agree on this. The dialog is interesting. BTW, last night I saw 11 deer standing on someone's lawn, in an area that is all posted, and private. My concern throughout this whole dialog is that public land hunting has been hammered with too many doe tags. I have not seen 11 deer together on a sgl or state forest track in years.

I was more than willing to give Dr Alt the benefit of the doubt when he made his proposals. They have just not panned out.

BTBowhunter

Did I miss something? Did the PGC publish a count on 8 pointers?
The count may or may not have doubled in the short time we've had AR but to my knowledge there hasn't been a count. Anyone who hant seen the dramatic improvement in the quality the average rack hasn't been paying attention.

Funny how the guys who wont give Alts efforts a chance whine about lack of deer and then almost in the same sentence complain that the herd isn't getting reduced under his plan?!?!?!?

MikeE, stick to things you know. You claim the PGC is under pressure from the insurance industry ...NOT!!! There is not one record of any insurance industry requests, pressure , lobbying the PGC etc or even stating that they care about our deer numbers. Not one.

I have been in the insurance industry for 27 years and have never once heard ANY insurance company even mention our deer numbers as a problem. Anything that causes claims that can be calculated statistically (and deer claims can) is beneficial to the insurance industry. If it causes claims, they figure out how much it'll be and charge accordingly. The only thing that worries insurance companies are claims they cant predict or predict the magnitude of. IE: millions for a lady who spills McDonalds hot coffee in her lap. Deer claims are hardly worth a mention in the insurance industry's big scheme.

ilbback

BT you are my hero!!

deaddeer

Yes the PGC did publish the number of 8 pts. prior to AR and only 44% of 2.5+ buck had 8+ pts. That means in order for AR to double the number of 8+ pt. buck AR had to save twice as many buck than pre-AR. According to Alt, AR saved 38K 1.5 buck and we normally carry over over 50K , so AR did not double the number of 8+ pt. buck.

In the 4 pt. zones there probabaly was a significant increase in the percentage of larger racks harvested , but the majority of the state is in the 3 pt. zone where the results were minimal. Furthermore, the racks on the 2.5 buck saved by AR aren't any bigger than the racks on 2.5 buck prior to AR, there are just a higher percentage in the harvest ,because small buck aren't AR legal.

DougE

Jason,Kip Adams of the QDM association proved that the worst the b/d ratio could ever be is 1/3.

Junior,go look at the deer density goals that I posted and tell me how we will have more and bigger bucks than ever before.You've evaded this question several times now.

Look guys,I support several of the programs Alt has initiated.I just want him to back up the his claims of better hunting when he we reach those goals.We've already met them in one area where I hunt and the hunting is not better.He has continued to lie througout this whole process.I've posted several lies and so far no one has proved them wrong.

Like BTbowhunter,I've also been in the insurance industry for years and I can also prove that the insurance industry is not behibd this.This is all about forest recertification and I can prove that as well.

Jason N

Doug, thanks! I've been busy scouting new areas for turkey and deer and just haven't had the time to look up any of this stuff. I remembered reading it not all that long ago, but remembering the material is the hard part.

I agree! I just wonder if the PGC is going to change the rules again after the forests are recertified. If they did it would be a nail in their coffen as it would show that they are interested more in money(in trees) than they are about protecting the states wildlife. We'll see. How often do they recertify the forests anyway? I don't ever remeber talk of forest certification until now. Of course, I don't remember much talk of deer management until Alt took the wheel either!

MikeE51848

You know what I'm tired of, is obviously superior intelligent people like you who fly off the handle with anyone who disagrees with you. DougE has presented some information that nobody has factually disputed yet. And I, and others, are still waiting to find out just who funded our deer management program.