Boy they must really think we are stupid
 

Sorry, but another rant on the PGC. Read if you want or not. I was just doing some random searching on the PGC web site looking at the various state game lands and saw a link on the home page for whitetail deer. I clicked on it and started going through the charts and figures they had listed. Now knowing most of WMU 4E where I do most of my hunting, I began plugging in the number on my computer's calculator. In 2010 the deer population for WMU 4E was set at 65,894 deer. Now first off, that was hard to believe. But OK let's assume its right. Now on the same hand, WMU 4E covers 1736 sq miles. So, 65894/1736 = 37.9. Wow, almost 38 deer per square mile in 4E! They must be hibernating.
At the same time the license/deer harvest dropped from 3.1 in 2003 to 4.6 in 2010 with a decrease in license allocations of only 11,000. AND supposedly the total deer population in this WMU only dropped about 7,000 from 2005 to 2010 (72,971 to 65,894).
Well I guess its true...figures don't lie, but liars figure.

The only thing I can think to do is to stop shooting does. Which will be tough for some. I shot a doe this past season, but it's the first I've shot in PA in three years. The only reason I shot one is I was seeing 7 doe run all over one farm I was hunting. I took one the last afternoon of the season. Never saw a buck. If we could stop the doe killing, I have to think the population would come back. I looked at the info for 2E, where I am, and there's no way there are as many deer as they report.
-Jake

It is this way throughout most of the state. The PGC refuses to listen to the hunters and third party biologists and continue on their errorous way. They complain that the number of hunters are dropping and young hunters are not joining the ranks. Do you really blame them? What young child would be willing to sit in the cold day after day and not see a deer? My grandson who is 7 now cannot wait to go hunting with his grandpa. I take him for turkey and squirrel with his mentor permit. I plan on taking him this upcoming year for deer but I am afraid he may begin to lose interest.

For years it was reported that there were 38 deer per square wooded mile in Pa. This amazes me because they canceled the annual elk count one year because of no snow. If you can't count an animal that large without snow, how do they count deer so accurately? Remember the white outline deer kill maps? One year (I think the 80's) there was one in the Game News for crop damage kill for the year. The whole state was around 500 deer. There were that many killed by farmers in a 5 mile radius of me.

IMO the entire deer management program (or should I call it the deer mis-management program) as run by the PGC is an outright shame. How can they possibly lie so bantently. The figures are totally inaccurate from the areas that I know. So statistically it can be said that all their figures are inaccurate. I would be more than happy to go with any WCO anywhere in WMU 4E, 4C or 2G and walk with them and have them show me any sign of the number of deer that they say there are.
But I will guarantee you this - you will find more coyote tracks than deer tracks. And they can't tell me that the coyotes don't eat deer. I found too much scat with deer hair in it to prove otherwise.

All about money.

Bad thing is the hunters are in actuality the ones to blame.

Good luck in 4E; you'll need it
 

As a non-resident, you made me start checking the pgc on the internet, to decide where to hunt. Never hunted the area covered by 4E; would only pass through it.
From the state data I found in 4E:

Deer herd at a minimum
Has the minimum 5 day antlered; 7 day concurrent season
deer herd seen as stable; deer reduction of antlerless accomplished. The CAC looking for increase of herd.

My Assessment:

Will not hunt 4E.
Looking for public land only. Only 4% of 1736 sq. miles is public.
Relatively mall acreage means it will get covered by local hunters; since land is near two interstates means some ingress to the public areas from some non-locals. Some better picks elsewhere.
.

Valentine you would be wise not to hunt 4E. As with the rest of the WMUs the deer population(s) are inflated - even grossly inflated. As for the 4% public land, a lot of that land is coal company owned and permission to hunt is via a permit (basically a trespass fee or land use fee). Only so many are allotted each year. Even then you have people hunting it without the required permits. And if you catch them and report them, you get your next year's permit free. Permit fee is $125.

4e
 

i to hunt 4e and i must say that where the pgc gets there info is beyond me. over the past few years i have seen less deer. they must be doing there surveys on private land around 4e

Picking your place to hunt
 

First, there are some successful hunters in 4E. PGC data shows that on antlered deer 4,746 Bucks were harvested in 2003 and 4,748 bucks were harvested in 2010.(one buck per hunter in PA)

The problem is anyone picking only one small area. In an area with 1,736 sq. mile, that amounts to a harvest of some 2.7 deer per square mile.
All sq. miles are not equal. Some sq. miles might see a harvest of three deer; some might only see a harvest of one deer. As one can easily see, there are no two deer behind every tree, and it might take some hiking to find just where the deer are.

And as for deer harvest, it's down in 4E. The buck harvest was just about the same in the PGC data of 2003 and 2010 for buck. A big decrease happened in antlerless deer. 11,974 antlerless deer in 2003; only 5,923 in 2010. All part of the PA deer reduction.

If you sit and wait on a buck, only less than 3 deer will be harvested per sq. mile. And if you're complaining, are you contributing to the complaining. Do you hunt the same half or quarter square mile? Only you can answer it?