I'll agree that you probably do have a legitimate gripe for simply being lumped in with 5C.Overall though hunters in 5C are still killing loads of deer.

I have been out 8 times in the past 3 weeks, and harvested a nice 8-pointer and button buck. I have seen 6 different non shooter bucks and no does during shooting hours. However before climbing down the one night two sets of a buck chasing a doe ran through. This past Saturday while squirrel hunting I saw a nice 8-pointer walking through the woods very casual, as if he wasn't even in the rut. Unusual to not see a group of does together. But there around as they were in the summer. So overall 9 bucks and 2 does.

Or better yet Doug, Just keep killing then see who is laughing. Pa isn't a poor place to hunt, some people just aren't quite the hunters they thought they were. lol

But that is only because there are many areas where no hunting is allowed which protected those deer from the PA herd reduction plan. The hunters who have access to adjoining areas still shoot a lot of deer , but in those areas with little posted ground the herd has been hammered and the hunting is really bad. Its that bad that some land owners have closed their land to all deer hunting just so they can see a few deer during the year,even though they don't hunt.

I can see that as a legitimate gripe that needs addressed.However,it doesn't mean the entire herd or state has been mismanaged.

That depends on how you define mismanagement. IMHO managing the statewide herd based on solely on the regeneration of commercially valuable trees or on the personal prefence of a select group of stakeholders, IMHO constitutes mismanagement of our herd.

IMHO it was a gross mismanagement to manage deer based on a system of maximum sustained yield.The habitat suffered greatly as a result.

Since 1980 our herd has been managed based on deer density goals that were at least 50% below the MSY Carrying capacity. Furthermore,even when we had 1.6 M preseason deer, the herd was still well below the MSY carrying capacity.

It is truly amazing that after 10 years of debating these issues you still don't understand the meaning of the MSY carrying capacity or how our herd has been managed from 1980 to 2000.

I do understand what it means.It still doesn't change the fact that the deer had a huge negative impact on the herd across huge areas of the state.We needed less deer and that's what we got.

The deer did not have a huge negative impact on the herd as you claim nor did it have a huge negative impact on the quality of the habitat across huge areas of the state. The fact that breeding rates and productivity did not increase as the herd was reduced ,proves beyond all doubt that the herd was still well below the MSY carrying capacity in 2001. What changed was that in 1999 SCS audit required that DCNR reduce the herd in order to get their forests certified.