Like I said,I don't know what goes on behind the scenes over there and I don't know any of the mods personally.I have met a handful of regular posters and even hunted with several.I was as critical about the PGC,mainly Alt for a long time and never so much as got a warning.In any event,I still think it's a good board that has alot of good information.I have to admit though that I do miss seeing the posts from alot of the guys that don't post much.Grund doesn't post much anymore and he was always a hoot as was Bumblehick.In all fairness,a message board ain't a message board without Beenthere.I hope to God he never loses internet access.

Oops I lied and don't feel like going back and making an edit.I did meet both Rooster booster and Shooter at one of R.S.B's habitat tours.Not sure if shooter was a ever a moderator though.I think he was.

Moosemike name 1 Pa.GC. employee thats been banned from that site. Come on over and join pa.outdoors.com and well talk about this no banning unless u really get out of hand.

Thanks ,that is quite a compliment coming from and adversary and if
I ever meet Beenthere I will pass it along. The fact remains you supported the PGC HR plan on HPA and that made you a member of the PGC cult and made you immune from getting banned. I was banned for asking a simple question to RB,before he changed his tune on HR.

What are you trying to say?

If you arent in lockstep with the players over there your gone. Ive gotten the warnings over there cause I didnt agree with the majority. That other site pa.outdoors.com you can argue this stuff till the cows come home ask douge.If you get real out of hand 3 day suspension or whatever

I took a look at that other site. They hate HPA over there and they openly badmouth it. I never heard anyone on HPA mention that site though. Beings that I'm one of the bigger posters on HPA I don't think they'd like me over there.

I have. MANY times. Though Rooster generally discourages it.

The bad stuff aside, every board Ive ever been on has had a lot of good guys on them. That includes here, paoutdoors, and yes, hpa. Just because many of us dont like the way the board is run doesnt mean we think everyone there is a malcontent! Id venture a guess that of the 1000's of members, probably 99% of them would most likely be good guys, including some of those i disagree with on issues.

But the things that go on there with the probably less than 1% who pretty much dictate things...Well that, theyd definately be far better off without.

Thats about all i have to say about that.

If you are a man and are willing to support your position it shouldn't matter to you if they like you or not. If I only posted what the members of HPA wanted to hear i wouldn't have been banned, but I would only have been wasting my time. now the owner of HPA is saying what I was saying 5 years ago that got me banned. How ironic is that?

Doug dont get me wrong I think HPA is a great site and has alot of great members who could careless which side of the deer issue your on.

I tried to join, I filled out the info and registered and the site said that I would a registration # by email shortly and never got one. Pike

Jeff you have a PM.

Got it!! Sent one back to ya! Pike

I wouldn't call you an adversary anymore than I'd call my wife or several other close friends that I don't see eye to eye on certain issues.

You know how I critical I was about everything Alt did or said.I never even got a warning.

I've gotten a couple suspensions and a ban on Pa-outdoors.The last one was because I ticked off a moderators husband.

Well then it would seem Doug E has been asked.

In all fairness,things have seemed to have mellowed out on that site.

I did get a warning from an administaror that I would be banned if I responded to any more of his posts.I continue to respond and haven't been banned yet.

Back to the PGC deer plan. i haven't made my position completely known. What I've said here is because I'm a "glass is half full" kind of guy. My favorite thing in the world for many years was Sullivan county. My in-laws own a camp there. I used to live for my time hunting up there. I haven't hunted there since 2005. Why? Because I can't find deer in deer season there anymore. So I live in Lebanon county and have a pretty good streak of getting deer in my home county. This past season i did not fill a tag for the first time since 1989. It's gone from not being able to see a deer in Sullivan to not being able to get a deer in Lebanon. It just keeps getting worse every year. I believe the mistakes of the past have put the PGC in a spot where they had to radically reduce the deer herd. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel in this state so I just try to tell myself that if I just hunted harder or did things differently my luck would change. It's not just the deer or lack thereof. Every year I'm losing places to hunt. My choices have really dwindled and I'm not interested in sitting on the PA Gameless lands and watching the empty woods. I've done a good bit of moose hunting in new England and that's what it's all about up there, an empty woods. i feel if I still had access to some of the private land that I've lost these past few years that my luck would be better. But it's not and I am really looking into moving away from PA to get back into quality deer hunting. Once again I don't put the blame on the PGC, but things have changed for the worse nonetheless.

Well ain't this all warm and fuzzy? Let me say this now, that some here seem to enjoy eachother's company so darn much...I am a miserable old fart am not interested in swapping spit or taking warm showers with anyone..most of all any of the PGC idolizers! If you're against the PGC deer managment plan I'm on your side if you're agin it shame on you.
Grab a pitchfork, wheat thrasher or whatever you got handy and march on the Crystal Palace DEMAND changes..let them know just whom is footing the bills and their fat cat salaries and we ain't happy...if they can get more from the ecoweenies let them go there an when they see the funds dry up after a few months they'll come crawling back!!!!!!!!

Just registered on pa.outdoors.com and it is a pretty cool site for the sportsman of PA!! Pike

Nah,I'll just spend some more time in the woods this spring and summer so when falls rolls around,I can pick up my of weapon and harvest deer like I always have.I'll have some days with few if any sighting but I know I'll also have plenty of action packed days with venison on the ground.You complain and march all you want.I'll continue to hunt and make the best of what this part of the state has to offer.It must really stink being a miserable old fart.

[QUOTE=DougE......I'll continue to hunt and make the best of what this part of the state has to offer.It must really stink being a miserable old fart.[/QUOTE]

I'm just glad you do all that doe killing anywhere but near my property! As for the rest of the comment I will just say it doesn't reek like a doe killer..all that scouting to kill doe..heck I could shoot them out the window most days (legally) but I got more pride than to kill a doe!!!!!!

Killing does is fine as long as you live in an area that has some around and the herd is huntable.

Where I live, public land is the worst in my 30 years in the woods. I wouldn't dream of shooting a doe there. I would worry that it might be the last one for 10 miles and I may NEVER see another one if I shot it.

Now private land around me is another matter. We have plenty of deer to hunt on private land. Most of the deer live and stay on the small farms and around the neighborhoods. I have 10-11 walk through my yard twice a day on their way to the soccer field complex. And that is not the only group going there every night. No problem popping a few of them if you wish.

yeah if you call that hunting...not me I want the big woods ain't got no interest in watching the old hag next door hang laundry while I'm sitting on the porch roof with my bow in hand.
I agree with you though about killing them where they need to be thinned..if someone is that in need of killing something, but around my patch deer numbers are worse than I ever saw them and I'm in my 80s

see my join date....i stop by from time to time. :wink:

Good to see your smiling face around here dude.:happy0001:

Several people did including me.

You should really make up your mind.First,there's no deer near your place and now it's so easy to kill them,you don't even have to hunt for them.

Doug what was his reply to your post :happy0157:
answer me this do you think he would still love the PGC if hr hit his food plot

bigcountry:
you seem like a guy that could use a little help,,,so i'll forward this tid bit of info that i've gathered over the years on this site,,,,,,,everytime you log on to the huntingnet forums and then click on the regional forums,,,,theres a basic headline that explains the area your about to click on,,,whether it be md. pa. ny or someother northeast state,,,,if your tired of reading about Pa. issues,,,,dont click on it!,,,,i know this may be a challenging feat for ******** like you,,,,but give it a try,,,,and try not to get any tears on your keyboard

He got a little huffy with several posts and even had to take a few timeouts.

I honestly don't know how he would react.I have no doubt that he fully understands the need for herd reductions.He's admitted it but he obviously doesn't like it.He made a post last year showing the dramatic improvements in the habitat as you look out from his camp.I did ask him about that and he didn't have nan answer this time.He said something to the effect that they cut 10 trees down but we both know that wasn't the reason.

You are right that you are wrong.:) The herd in 2G had already been reduced to the previous deer density goal by 2000 when the new plan was implemented. Reducing the herd from 15 DPSM in 2000 to 8 DPSM in 2007 resulted in a decrease in regeneration from 45% in 2005 to 38% in 2008.


If you believe it was necessary to radically reduce the herd , can you explain why it hasn't produced the predicted results?

I shot you a pm.I hope it makes sense.

The 5 yr. average regeneration in 2G decreased from 45% in 2005 to 38% in 2008. In order for that to happen, less that 25% of the plots sampled in 2008 had adequate regeneration. Based on that fact , the forest health in 2G will be rated as good only if and when there are no deer left to browse the oaks.

everything has it's problems but i do nothing but post whatever i feel at any time and regardless of who might or might not like it. the only timeout i have ever served was due to cussing and the post was basically about nothing at all.

Some things are impossible
 

I think many complainers in PA will never be satisfied with the deer count or deer plan, as long as there are not more than 35 deer, on every square mile of land.

The high deer harvest of recent years didn't mean that they would continually be increased. Deer reductions require less deer in succeeding hunts.

I've been reading all these posts for a while now. For the guys that think the pgc have not screwed up pa for a long time I have some questions. How are kids supposed to stay interested in hunting when there is next to no game to show them. I've been hunting 20 years and have shot alot of deer. I'm not a lazy hunter and I like to think I know what I'm doing. I will spend days not seeing a blessed deer in 4D where I hunt. I walk miles into the mountains with my family and friends with not much luck. I sit for hours in the summer trying to scout for deer. My point being if you guys were 12 years old and just starting out would you have stuck with it? We never saw deer dying of starvation back in the good days, but that what the pgc told me was happening. We have reduced the heard so much that when we push mountains for bear, we dont kick out a single deer. How am I supposed to get my children interested when I spend a week of hard hunting and maybe see a tail. You guys need to open your eyes and start thinking of the future of our sport before its gone!

We never had 35 DPSM on every SM of land, if we did we would have had 15.75 M deer instead of 1.6M deer.

Nobody expected the harvests to continually increase ,but there is no reason why the herd had to be cut by over 40%.