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Old 02-05-2010, 02:43 PM
  #231  
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It's not too much too ask for deer densities in the range of 15-20 dpsm in decent habitat.The areas that have decent habitat most likely have more deer than that.The areas around here that have poor habitat are having a hard time regenerating at less than 15 dpsm.It's a shame because it should be that way.Unfortunately that's the price you pay for letting the habitat get to the point it was.
If the DCNR did larger cuts instead of 75 acre cuts, sprayed for competing vegetation and did TSI work on adjacent areas they would get good regeneration at 15-20 DPSM just like the PGC said they did in 1983. But it is a lot cheaper to have hunters pay for the opportunity to kill a doe than it is to properly manage their forests.

BTW, the habitat was not and is not the factor that is limiting the herd in NC PA, it is the antlerless allocations. The habitat in NC PA could support 40 DPSM ,if the regeneration of commercially valuable timber was not the determining factor.
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:18 PM
  #232  
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Are you saying that the industry created by lumber in PA is insignificant to your desires to shoot a spike by 10 am on Dec 1?
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:21 PM
  #233  
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Whatsa matter liv? Dont like the way the debate is going so gotta launch the ol' insult cannon again?

I didnt see bb say he thought there SHOULD be 40 dpsm. He said there could be IF it werent for timber interest. Meaning the land could carry that many in his opinion if it had to.

Also, the timber industry wouldnt exactly become broke due to us having normal amounts of deer. Most other states with deer also have a timber industry believe it or not.

Last edited by Cornelius08; 02-05-2010 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:23 PM
  #234  
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Originally Posted by germain View Post
Awhile back I posted pics of my cut.It's impressive.My neighbor really opened the canopy in a woods which is 95% white/red oaks.I'm anxious to see how it turns out.The area isn't loaded with deer but there's more then the state forest has.
But then that's not saying much.
Very few people realize how critical site conditions are regarding successful regeneration. At this time of year I am in the woods cutting firewood 6 or 7 days/week and a pay special attention to what is growing. My neighbors property that was cut 4 years ago has areas with thick stands of poplar saplings and other areas where fewer trees with cut with no poplar regeneration. The few oak seedlings are 1' while the poplars are 12' tall ,so the oaks will probably not be able to survive. The logging equipment also introduced pawlonia trees that even grow faster than poplar and are totally worthless except possibly pulp wood.

The same year the neighbor had his lot cut ,we had 3 loads of poplar removed from our land which is about 300 yds. from the other cut. But unlike the neighbors cut , we had no poplar regeneration from seedlings but we did have stump sprouts that survived.

The funny thing is the PGC rates 5C as having the worst regeneration in the state, yet I have yet to see one cut any where that resulted in an open area with no regeneration ,unless the cut was turned into a subdivision.
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:42 PM
  #235  
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Originally Posted by livbucks View Post
Are you saying that the industry created by lumber in PA is insignificant to your desires to shoot a spike by 10 am on Dec 1?
Now that is a classic cheap shot,especially when it comes from someone that put and archery tag on a buck killed by a WCO!

In case you missed it, I was the one that posted the data that showed how important the timber industry was to the economy of the state. I have been involved with DCNR and the timber industry for over 30 years and I fully recognize the importance of commercial timber. But that doesn't change the fact that DCNR and the timber industry should adsorb the costs involved with getting the regeneration they desire instead of simply killing more deer.
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Old 02-05-2010, 06:57 PM
  #236  
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It was a valid question. Not in any way a cheap shot. I know, I know...you keep saying that the land can support 40 dpsm, but that doesn't mean you want it. No, no...we see. You are the "picture's worth a thousand words" kind of guy.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:09 PM
  #237  
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[QUOTE]Are you saying that the industry created by lumber in PA is insignificant to your desires to shoot a spike by 10 am on Dec 1?[/QUOTE

it is not a valid question when you compare the value of the timber industry to the desire of an individual hunter to harvest what was once a legal deer. That is an intentional cheap shot

The rest of your post didn't make any sense..
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:12 PM
  #238  
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I simply meant the way we managed for 1.5 year old deer in the past. You know that but just like to feign injury.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:53 PM
  #239  
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douge, without cutting trees,nothing will get better, some improvement but shade /leaves on ground will do in any good hearted ideas.
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Old 02-05-2010, 08:13 PM
  #240  
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I gotta say, I agree with old Sproul. Shade does not care what us humans would like or want.
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