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Originally Posted by Windwalker7
(Post 3565626)
The PGC must like to drive in farmer's fields.
Several years ago during dove season a buddy of mine was hunting with a few of his buddies. They were parked in a field. In the middle of the field was a large, old oak tree. They were sitting in the shade of the tree when a GW came down the long lane/driveway. He immediately drove through the field up to the oak tree. He jumped out shouting, "I want to see everyone's license right now!" He check everyone's license and the shell capacity of each gun. He then went on a rant about parking the vehicle in the field below. He wanted to know who's vehile it was and said they would be getting a fine. My buddy with the vehicle started to chuckle. The GW wasn't too happy when he did that and became more irrate. The GW started to write him up. In a very confrontational attitude, the GW wanted to know why he parked in the field. My buddy just shrugged his shoulders and said "I don't know, I just did!" When the GW ask where he was from, my buddy pointed to the house at the end of the lane. The GW had a shocked look on his face and then ask, "Do you own this property?" My buddy nodded his head and said, "Yes, I do!" The GW started to apologize. My buddy started to chew him out for driving through the field. Aking why he just couldn't have rolled down the window and ask about who's vehicle was there and if they had permission, rather than drive through the field. The GW had a real change of attitude and kept saying he was sorry. I don't know, maybe the PGC like to test out the 4WD on their vehicles by driving through farmer's fields. That story doesnt add up. The only way a WCO can write a ticket for driving on fields is if its a SGL or a farm in the Co-op. If he was in the co-op program the WCO would have known the landowner. |
I've never had a problem with Game Wardens, I actually enjoy talking to them whether it be on my land, Sleepy Creek, or fishing. They give you that first gloss over look to see what's what but then I just start asking them about whatever I can think of.
I have to say, WV is much more friendly with their hunters than PA, WV seems to really appreciate hunting and hunters. PA seems to treat you guys like adversaries. |
Originally Posted by WestVirginiaBrent
(Post 3566167)
I've never had a problem with Game Wardens, I actually enjoy talking to them whether it be on my land, Sleepy Creek, or fishing. They give you that first gloss over look to see what's what but then I just start asking them about whatever I can think of.
I have to say, WV is much more friendly with their hunters than PA, WV seems to really appreciate hunting and hunters. PA seems to treat you guys like adversaries. As far as Pa. is concerned,,,i have never directly crossed paths with a WCO,,,but i do know of one who likes to ride a mountain bike while patrolling the spring turkey woods. |
Originally Posted by rem700man
(Post 3566231)
I've had the same experiences here in Va with the wco's,,,,,nothing but good to say about the guys,,hell one of them even gave me and my wife pointers on where to fish and have more success!
As far as Pa. is concerned,,,i have never directly crossed paths with a WCO,,,but i do know of one who likes to ride a mountain bike while patrolling the spring turkey woods. VA's WCO's are top shelf; a few of PA's WCO's could use stand some courses in Human Relations and following PA's Vehicular Trespass Laws. :happy0001: |
If you have a gate, then by all means you should lock it. I know a WCO has more tresspass power that a police officer. Why is beyond me. I know my cousin who was a COP here would sometimes use a WCO to 'check someone's trunk for illegal game' when he had suspicion of drugs and couldn't get a warrant quick enough. Then, open trunk, on public property in plain sight = silver bracelets..
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Originally Posted by bronko22000
(Post 3566549)
If you have a gate, then by all means you should lock it. I know a WCO has more tresspass power that a police officer. Why is beyond me. I know my cousin who was a COP here would sometimes use a WCO to 'check someone's trunk for illegal game' when he had suspicion of drugs and couldn't get a warrant quick enough. Then, open trunk, on public property in plain sight = silver bracelets..
WCO's are held by Constitutional Law equal to every other LE Officer in the State. |
Originally Posted by WCO R.W.J
(Post 3566148)
That story doesnt add up. The only way a WCO can write a ticket for driving on fields is if its a SGL or a farm in the Co-op. If he was in the co-op program the WCO would have known the landowner.
It was a farm co op. They have all the PGC signs (safety zone, Do Not Block Gate, etc...) they also stock pheasants. This was in late 80s. My buddy was actually my GFs brother and the son of the property owner. Its funny how a person can give details of an experience that happened and have someone from the PGC say it isn't true. This property is next to Greenlick dam in Westmoreland Co. AKA Jacob's Creek Dam. The Propery owners initials are J.S. and L.M. if you want to call your buddies in that area and verify such a place exists. |
Well that explains why he was going to issue a citation for driving on the fields. I am suprised the the WCO didnt know the landowner, (but that is possible). The Landowner should have been happy that the WCO was attempting to enforce the law on his land for him.
I didnt say your story was false I just said the way it was written it didnt add up to me, with the additional facts you just supplied , I have to say it could have happened that way. |
Originally Posted by WCO R.W.J
(Post 3566783)
Well that explains why he was going to issue a citation for driving on the fields. I am suprised the the WCO didnt know the landowner, (but that is possible). The Landowner should have been happy that the WCO was attempting to enforce the law on his land for him.
I didnt say your story was false I just said the way it was written it didnt add up to me, with the additional facts you just supplied , I have to say it could have happened that way. It wasn't the fact that the WCO was enforcing the law. It was because the WCO drove through the field (about 100yds.) up to the oak tree, to write a citation for parking in the very same field. My buddy was pulled off to the side of the driveway/lane. (the driveway/lane is about 1/4 mile long back to the farm house) Seems odd to me, that the WCO would drive through a field to write up somebody for parking in the very same field. This was back around 1986-87. |
Originally Posted by WestVirginiaBrent
(Post 3566167)
I've never had a problem with Game Wardens, I actually enjoy talking to them whether it be on my land, Sleepy Creek, or fishing. They give you that first gloss over look to see what's what but then I just start asking them about whatever I can think of.
I have to say, WV is much more friendly with their hunters than PA, WV seems to really appreciate hunting and hunters. PA seems to treat you guys like adversaries. Very true! I hunted in WV for 16 years. Very proffessional down there. Always polite and interested in how your day is going andoffer advice/ When was the last time a PA WCO walked up to you and introduced himself and shook you and your buddies' hand while doing so? Had a WV WCO do that! They act like they are glad to see you down there. Never get that feeling here in PA! My buddies and I were shocked when they did that. Wasn't what we were use to. Use to being treated like a criminal here in PA. Very friendly in WV! |
Originally Posted by Windwalker7
(Post 3567382)
It wasn't the fact that the WCO was enforcing the law.
It was because the WCO drove through the field (about 100yds.) up to the oak tree, to write a citation for parking in the very same field. My buddy was pulled off to the side of the driveway/lane. (the driveway/lane is about 1/4 mile long back to the farm house) Seems odd to me, that the WCO would drive through a field to write up somebody for parking in the very same field. This was back around 1986-87. |
Originally Posted by Windwalker7
(Post 3567393)
Very true!
I hunted in WV for 16 years. Very proffessional down there. Always polite and interested in how your day is going andoffer advice/ When was the last time a PA WCO walked up to you and introduced himself and shook you and your buddies' hand while doing so? Had a WV WCO do that! They act like they are glad to see you down there. Never get that feeling here in PA! My buddies and I were shocked when they did that. Wasn't what we were use to. Use to being treated like a criminal here in PA. Very friendly in WV! |
I will openly admit that not all WCOs are the same. It could very well be, that you aren't like that. But there are some really bad apples out there.
I will also admit that I have met a couple WCOs that were very friendly. Met one in western Greene Co. about 5 years ago. One heck of a nice guy. My father and I chatted with him for about 20 min. Unfortunately I don't recall his name. Very professional! I have to say though, most of my experiences have not been good with the PGC. Seems like just about everyone has had a bad experience with at least one. |
I will openly admit that not all WCOs are the same. It could very well be, that you aren't like that. But there are some really bad apples out there. I have to say though, most of my experiences have not been good with the PGC. Seems like just about everyone has had a bad experience with at least one. I only know our WCO by his reputation and name. Have been stopped, never introduced themselves other than a title always asked for the license check and gun check "go ahead you can move on"!. |
Originally Posted by Windwalker7
(Post 3567988)
I will openly admit that not all WCOs are the same. It could very well be, that you aren't like that. But there are some really bad apples out there.
Now are there good officers out there? Absolutely there are, (at least as far as doing their jobs is concerned) but IMHO they often have a serious flaw. If they are not partictipants in the afore mentioned corruption they sheepishly turn their heads when they see it taking place. Until this all but stops, declining public opinion will not turn around. When they once again understand they are sworn to protect and serve the public, not their fellow officers, respect will grow. |
Originally Posted by Sylvan
(Post 3568091)
Not only are they out there, but they are protected by the majority and that taints the entire organization. Like I've said before, the "blue wall" is very real. The corrupt practice of "professional courtesy" is ubiquitous and sends the message to each and every officer that they are above the law. Respect for the word of law enforcement has degraded to the point that jurors often hold the veracity of an LEO's testimony with at least as much suspicion as that of a common criminal. That's sad and makes me draw comparisons with Mexico's corrupt agencies. Again, unless and until there is widespread reform their well earned reputation will continue to decline.
Now are there good officers out there? Absolutely there are, (at least as far as doing their jobs is concerned) but IMHO they often have a serious flaw. If they are not partictipants in the afore mentioned corruption they sheepishly turn their heads when they see it taking place. Until this all but stops, declining public opinion will not turn around. When they once again understand they are sworn to protect and serve the public, not their fellow officers, respect will grow. |
deleted by sproul...............
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Sproul,if ignorance was money,you'd be rich.I'm normally thick skinned about heritage references,but being of Italian decent ,I am offended by that story and any association you infer with being Italian and committing such acts !
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I have yet to meeet a DWCO whom could get off their ego trip long enough to have common sense.
One of the biggest poachers in Sullivan County (the area I lived in for some years back in the 70s and early 80s) was the local DGW at the time. His family had a couple small farms in the area and everyone of the locals not connected to the family laughed how ironic it was that he became a DGW...sure didn't slow his kin folk down on poaching any...or him. |
Originally Posted by Potterco
(Post 3568826)
I have yet to meeet a DWCO whom could get off their ego trip long enough to have common sense.
One of the biggest poachers in Sullivan County (the area I lived in for some years back in the 70s and early 80s) was the local DGW at the time. His family had a couple small farms in the area and everyone of the locals not connected to the family laughed how ironic it was that he became a DGW...sure didn't slow his kin folk down on poaching any...or him. So why didnt anyone talk to his Supervisors the WCO or the Regional Director. |
Originally Posted by fellas2
(Post 3568784)
Sproul,if ignorance was money,you'd be rich.I'm normally thick skinned about heritage references,but being of Italian decent ,I am offended by that story and any association you infer with being Italian and committing such acts !
the deer in question came out of 16th st hollow.being these areas were what they are, i dont have to explain why a certain PEOPLE was involved because you felt insulted .you can see why it was and COULD have been other PEOPLE if it was in another area of this town. again sorry a TRUE story of what was bothered you that much, rest assured i was not trying to single out any group only telling a story of what TRUE that happen long ago. i have LOTS of true storys ,guess i will structure those involved a little different next time. take care sproul |
W.C.O. RWJ, are you kidding about contacting that GW's supervisor?? I do not know how to answer that statement of yours? other than asking if you would think by reading these entries over the past months it is clear people have a clear mistrust, if not fear of interaction with the PAPGC. I do not beleive any containment of my name and complaint could be done by the Supervisor, PAPGC staff or other GW's in or around my area. I know response is "well we can't do anything if you don't report it". I think you are a good employee and stand up for them. I have learned from yoiur posts, but i don't beleive decent people , users of the hunting program in PA are going to open themselves up to this type of possible repercussions from you all. It just seems like interrogation anymore, not have you had a good day.
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Originally Posted by Buck Hunter 1
(Post 3568975)
W.C.O. RWJ, are you kidding about contacting that GW's supervisor?? I do not know how to answer that statement of yours? other than asking if you would think by reading these entries over the past months it is clear people have a clear mistrust, if not fear of interaction with the PAPGC. I do not beleive any containment of my name and complaint could be done by the Supervisor, PAPGC staff or other GW's in or around my area. I know response is "well we can't do anything if you don't report it". I think you are a good employee and stand up for them. I have learned from yoiur posts, but i don't beleive decent people , users of the hunting program in PA are going to open themselves up to this type of possible repercussions from you all. It just seems like interrogation anymore, not have you had a good day.
There are laws in place to protect from witness tampering. What repercussions could there be? If the allegation is true they will be gone and not able to bother anyone. Why would you be afraid to attach your name to a complaint if it was true? We cant stick our head in the sand everytime someone does something because we are scared. All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to say/do nothing about it. |
wco i have dealt with just hunting and at our sportsmans meeting were ok over 46 yrs i have dealt with them.driving on fields, that wco was wrong.or just did not think he was doing wrong but he did.
this is why i dont like to say who i am.to tell storys i do and all true as best i can,i could not do it if SOME knew who i was. the nuts are out there.drugs are nasty mother when these people are on them....... one poaching group had idea ole sproul knew to much last year.what did they do that i cant PROVE or ACCUSE or CONFIRM if it was them,they ripped my lawn up with big tires in winter at MIDNIGHT. they are lucky i did not get to my [ ] fast enough or i bet they would have pooped in their pants while i [ ] in air. i wonder if i should delete that last sentence.:jaw: |
Originally Posted by WCO R.W.J
(Post 3568998)
I have had negative encounters with Hunters, Plumbers, Auto Mechanics.....ect, but I dont make a decision on any group baised on individuals. There is a formal complaint tracking system in place and it it used. If any of my DWCO's were violationg the law I would bounce them, If I knew of one of my fellow WCO's violating the law I would report that also. I do not like my integrety attached to anybodys actions.
There are laws in place to protect from witness tampering. What repercussions could there be? If the allegation is true they will be gone and not able to bother anyone. Why would you be afraid to attach your name to a complaint if it was true? We cant stick our head in the sand everytime someone does something because we are scared. All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to say/do nothing about it. rwj, when you get POSITION of power most will get big heads. i know, I WAS THERE.........its hard to bring people back to earth unless they have been involved with people/things etc and are allowed to be FAIR etc. i see it with some fireman. they will pull you out of car and throw you on ground, if they could when badge is put on chest. out of 10 you will have 1 that thinks he is FINALLY SOMEONE. sadly when they are knocked down notch, reality sets in.being scared today is normal thing to be. from my experience it does very little to COMPLAIN or file complaint. i had fish warden that was mad at me because i did show up when he was stocking a stream at his camp and only 1 of our club showed up to help.he wanted those trout to be SECRET cause he had family coming first day.i was writing down the spots he stocked...... he wanted it that way.he made statement to my friend, IF I EVER CATCH SPROUL ALONG CREEK I WILL THROW BOOK AT HIM.. i called state rep then to inform him that this warden said this.did no good, he watched me in boat with binoiculars trying to see if i was drinking beer in boat. it was 7up cans when he opened my cooler.he them said i did not put the license on my hat facing right way so he could see it. did not know license had to be facing a certain way to see the trout stamp. he did not write me up ,only HARRASsED ME . again, never had trouble with WCO but did with fish warden for such a little thig as knowing where he stocked fish . i guess i would be mad also if i had my HONEY HOLES discovered too.. take care SPROUL |
Originally Posted by Potterco
(Post 3568826)
I have yet to meeet a DWCO whom could get off their ego trip long enough to have common sense.
One of the biggest poachers in Sullivan County (the area I lived in for some years back in the 70s and early 80s) was the local DGW at the time. His family had a couple small farms in the area and everyone of the locals not connected to the family laughed how ironic it was that he became a DGW...sure didn't slow his kin folk down on poaching any...or him. Was his last name Drakula or something like that? |
Originally Posted by WCO R.W.J
(Post 3568957)
So why didnt anyone talk to his Supervisors the WCO or the Regional Director.
what makes you think I didn't? Fact is the GW (as known back then) was his cousin...I honestly don't recall his name(GW) but he got fed up with the GC when they told him he had to drop his part time job of selling log homes and quit the GC all together this was back in the early 80s shouldn't be too hard for you to find out who it was if you want. but the DGW was Barry M. from Shunk one of the local M.s of Shunk, Pa ...his name shouldn't be too hard for you to figure out either if you want to. I know I reported the actions of more than one WCO, DWCO and Trainee, know what happened...NOTHING to the best of my knowledge no one even contacted me. You seem to be a straight talker an I got no reason to suspect you're anything but that. But if you honestly don't think there would be reprocussions for going to a Board member with a complaint about a WCO you may believe Obama will have a surplus in the budget next year! |
WCORWJ,
I have had negative encounters with Hunters, Plumbers, Auto Mechanics |
Originally Posted by Potterco
(Post 3569078)
what makes you think I didn't?
Fact is the GW (as known back then) was his cousin...I honestly don't recall his name(GW) but he got fed up with the GC when they told him he had to drop his part time job of selling log homes and quit the GC all together this was back in the early 80s shouldn't be too hard for you to find out who it was if you want. but the DGW was Barry M. from Shunk one of the local M.s of Shunk, Pa ...his name shouldn't be too hard for you to figure out either if you want to. I know I reported the actions of more than one WCO, DWCO and Trainee, know what happened...NOTHING to the best of my knowledge no one even contacted me. You seem to be a straight talker an I got no reason to suspect you're anything but that. But if you honestly don't think there would be reprocussions for going to a Board member with a complaint about a WCO you may believe Obama will have a surplus in the budget next year! |
Originally Posted by Buck Hunter 1
(Post 3569085)
WCORWJ, and they don't carry a badge, I can hire another one and they don'tr have friends that carry badges. . Sorry no trust!
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Sorry for those who had a bad experience with a WCO. I also had a couple. But I also had bad experiences with,state troopers,local police officers,building code officers,
the mailman,teachers,customer service and the list goes on.The worst experience of my life was with a doctor. My Dad was in the hospital. The doctor showed up that morning and never acknowledged any of us. Looked at my Dad's chart,put it down,then blurted out;If he takes a turn for the worse,I guess you expect me to save his life! After my actions,I still can't believe "I" didn't get thrown in jail and slapped with a law suite. Yes we expect those who serve us to always be professional and courteous. Are they? No! But when we have a bad experience,should all those related to that profession be tagged with the same reputation? Absolutely not! |
Not to defend the DR. but there was a reason for his comment. I wasn't there but am going through medical issues with my father as we speak.
The reason for that comment is, they want to know what he wants ( Living will) I've been ask that question several times in the last year, while at the hospital. My father has a list of medical problems complicated by two strokes in the last year. While I wasn't there, I feel sure that is what the Dr, wanted to know. Not trying to debate. Since you are from Westmoreland Co. (me too) You have probably dealt with the same hospitals as me. Some Doctors are just real jerks and lack sympathy when they ask questions. |
Originally Posted by WCO R.W.J
(Post 3569551)
That was 20 years before my time with the Commission so I cant speak as to what would happen then, But I do know what would happen now. All complaints are tracked and investigated.
Just making a point! |
Originally Posted by Windwalker7
(Post 3569617)
Not to defend the DR. but there was a reason for his comment. I wasn't there but am going through medical issues with my father as we speak.
The reason for that comment is, they want to know what he wants ( Living will) I've been ask that question several times in the last year, while at the hospital. My father has a list of medical problems complicated by two strokes in the last year. While I wasn't there, I feel sure that is what the Dr, wanted to know. Not trying to debate. Since you are from Westmoreland Co. (me too) You have probably dealt with the same hospitals as me. Some Doctors are just real jerks and lack sympathy when they ask questions. Greg |
i was always told they can enter your home, no warrant needed...i would think the same goes with land too
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Originally Posted by Windwalker7
(Post 3569617)
Not to defend the DR. but there was a reason for his comment. I wasn't there but am going through medical issues with my father as we speak.
The reason for that comment is, they want to know what he wants ( Living will) I've been ask that question several times in the last year, while at the hospital. My father has a list of medical problems complicated by two strokes in the last year. While I wasn't there, I feel sure that is what the Dr, wanted to know. Not trying to debate. Since you are from Westmoreland Co. (me too) You have probably dealt with the same hospitals as me. Some Doctors are just real jerks and lack sympathy when they ask questions. |
Originally Posted by Windwalker7
(Post 3569617)
Not to defend the DR. but there was a reason for his comment. I wasn't there but am going through medical issues with my father as we speak.
The reason for that comment is, they want to know what he wants ( Living will) I've been ask that question several times in the last year, while at the hospital. My father has a list of medical problems complicated by two strokes in the last year. While I wasn't there, I feel sure that is what the Dr, wanted to know. Not trying to debate. Since you are from Westmoreland Co. (me too) You have probably dealt with the same hospitals as me. Some Doctors are just real jerks and lack sympathy when they ask questions. our nursing homes are in trouble. did you know that doctor can only see your dad/mom 1 time a month in nursing home:jaw: did you know it takes 2 days to get a pill ordered and delivered from a pharmacy that nursing home deals with:jaw: cost for nursing home now is 6000/9,000 a month and that is great service you will get for 6000/9,000 a month.no insurance covers it unless you have LTC insurance which most cant afford. i am well experienced in this ,if you need any ADVISE ,drop me pm. hope your dad is doing better, sproul |
Thanks guys!
Didn't mean to hijack this thread. Prayers will be sent to your loved ones too. Its tough when they get old. |
Originally Posted by WCO R.W.J
(Post 3568998)
Why would you be afraid to attach your name to a complaint if it was true? We cant stick our head in the sand everytime someone does something because we are scared. All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to say/do nothing about it.
The fact is, many (and the number is growing) citizens do not trust law enforcement. They see examples of abuse on the news and in the papers and sometimes even experience it first hand. Please don't insult our intelligence by pretending to not know why a person might be afraid to attach his name to a true and valid complaint. |
Originally Posted by Windwalker7
(Post 3569917)
Thanks guys!
Didn't mean to hijack this thread. Prayers will be sent to your loved ones too. Its tough when they get old. IMHO, you should feel free to keep us informed on dad's progress as often as you like.:wave: |
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