Manyspurs, I dont see kimbo ever beating brock. Not that i wouldnt like to see someone do it, but brocks just too big and strong. Hes also younger and WAY quicker than kimbo. Kimbo is slower than cold molasses. He'll get better, but never be a "contender" just doesnt have the potential and getting started too late to master everything to do with mma, not a young guy.

Fight Id like to see is Brock and Fedor Emilianenko. Bad Russian dude there brother. Aint quite as big as brock but extremely strong. He got a huge contract from some other lesser known outfit and went there from pride instead of to ufc. SO that fight wont be happening anytime soon.

I "got" the joke btb. We "witty" guys understand each other. Your jokes are the only ones usually in need of explanation. Or maybe its just that they arent all that funny? lol.

Alt is gone but the quote is still on the PGC website for everyone to read. You admitted Alt used poor grammar so you admitted that I was right and that the quote states that our buck will be larger than ever before. Alt sold ARs on the basis of improved breeding ecology, dominant breeding and better genetics ,which would all lead to bigger 2.5+ buck if the plan worked as predicted.

If Alt would have taken the AR program with him when he left,we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Why did Alt emphasize that the older superior buck would be doing the breeding? He said it to convince hunters that ARs would produce bigger 1.5,2.5 and 3.5+ buck. He also used the flawed computer models from Miss. to assure us that ARs wouldn't result in a decrease in the rack sizes of 2.5+ buck.




For those who don't think alt ment bigger antler bucks should take a minute and think about it.

The bigger bucks would be the breeders he said. Now if you know anything about genetics you will know that the more mature and larger bucks would produce larger off springs. Now is this true or not? Now we can only conclude that alt did mean we would have bigger racked bucks than before the AR in the 2.5 and up aged deer. What deer would produce the bigger racked buck in a 2.5 old deer? A 5 year old 10 point or a 2.5 year old 5 point? So from what alt was saying is we would have bigger 2.5 old bucks than ever before and not just by letting them live that long. It was from larger bucks he was talking about doing the breeding.


Also, I am seeing smaller racked bucks this year than before. My only conclusion is we shot off the larger 2.5 old bucks and left the smaller AR bucks do the breeding. We are having a reverse affect on the deer herd in return is making for a smaller class buck and a unhealthy deer herd.
Our bucks are now a inferior breed of deer from the AR program. You can count on that. They destroyed the genes by targeting larger bucks and letting the small ones to walk and breed. Anyone can see this much better now. AR was a huge mistake.

NO, this cannot be true. Makes absolutely NO difference how old a buck is when he breeds. A buck at 1.5 will pass exactly the same genetics on as he would when he is 2.5 or 3.5. Just as a human father would pass his same genetics on whether he fathers a child at 19 or at 40. Alt was making up "trophy hunter" biological theory here.

That Russian dude is just plain mean. He will give Lessner trouble. But I think, once Brandon Vera cleans house in the light heaveyweight slot, and moves up to heavyweight, he going to go lay the whoop on Lessner. If it happens, that's one fight that I will pay to watch.

I would have to dis agree with that. Genes develop and breaks down through life. Take an 80 yr old bald crippled wrinkled old man for example. His genetics has broken down and his genes would not be the same as if he was a 22 old young man.
Also if this was the case as you said, Why do breeders wait for their bucks to age before they breed them? To get bigger bucks and alter their genes with suppliments.

The difference is we are not talking about the age or genetics of an individual buck, we are talking about the average genetic makeup of the entire buck population that are doing the breeding and there is no question that ARs protect the bucks with the poorest genetics for the rate of antler development. Prior to ARs, 18% 0f our 2.5+ buck wouldn't have been AR legal with the 3 pt. AR. Now it is likely that 20-25% of our 2.5+ buck are protected. Therefore, the vast majority of 3.5 buck available to become dominant breeders are those buck ARs protected because those bucks had inferior genes for the rate of antler development.

I would think that prior to 2.5 years they would have to be 1.5 years and breeding? If the big one is killed i would assume he was dominant and has bred everything on the mountain? The genes then would perpetuate? I also think we as landowners help w/that by lessening the amount of hunting/hunters that can get at that animal. Again, I don't depend on the PGC anymore, they just want to write tickets. I swear we can see traits of some old big deer in the young bucks we spotlight at night, or we see in the fields or in the woods.

I would agree that in more advanced age some mutations could occur. Even in humans there have been theories that older parents can contribute to downs syndrome, autism and various other things in their offsprings.
However, I think mighty little will be different in a 1.5 year old buck compared to a 3.5 year old. The point you try to make about breeders waiting for bucks to age does not apply in a wild herd. I don't think too many wild deer are effected by the relatively few food plots out there with any of these deer supplement concoctions some landowners put out in hopes of getting deer to grow bigger antlers.

As others have mentioned, if anything the genetically inferior bucks are given the chance to live and procreate for another year or more with AR's. The small 6 or 8 point 1.5 to 2.5 year old will surely be shot at first sight so his better genetics in actuality will be procreating for a shorter period of time.

[QUOTE] As others have mentioned, if anything the genetically inferior bucks are given the chance to live and procreate for another year or more with AR's. The small 6 or 8 point 1.5 to 2.5 year old will surely be shot at first sight so his better genetics in actuality will be procreating for a shorter period of time.
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That is the problem with ARs in a nutshell and it explains why ARs will never produce bigger 2.5+ buck than we had before ARs. Then if you factor in the effects of high grading, it is clear that ARs won't produce bigger racks in our 2.5+ buck.